What seems like a long, long time ago Dan Rather was a very powerful force in American journalism. He not only was the anchorman of the CBS Evening News, he was also the face of the network’s renowned news division — the “Tiffany” network of bigger-than-life legends like Ed Murrow, Walter Cronkite, Eric Sevareid, Mike Wallace and many, many others.
That was then. Now Dan Rather is suing the network that employed him for 44 years, asking for $70 million dollars in damages. Technically, the lawsuit is about a dry legal issue — breach of contract. But it is also about something much more personal to Rather: his legacy. It is a lawsuit, fundamentally, about saving Dan Rather’s reputation.
That reputation took a turn for the worse back in 2004. As has been widely reported, just 55 days before a very close presidential election, Dan Rather and his producer Mary Mapes put a story on the weekday edition of 60 Minutes that brought on the media equivalent of World War III. There were accusations that Rather, Mapes, and maybe the entire CBS News Division had set out to deliberately destroy George W. Bush and get John Kerry elected President of the United States – a charge everyone at CBS vehemently denies.
The story was about how the young George Bush got preferential treatment during the Vietnam War; how he wangled his way into the Texas Air National Guard back in the 1960s to avoid service in Vietnam; and how he was able to do it because his father was a big-shot, a United States Congressman from Houston. The story portrayed the Bush as a slacker. Others have said it portrayed him as a “cowardly draft dodger.”
And to bolster their story, Rather and Mapes got their hands on “never-before-seen” documents (as Rather put it in his story) that supposedly backed up their months (and in Mapes’ case, years) of reporting. But in no time flat the documents came under attack, mainly by conservatives on the web who examined the typeface of the memos and concluded they were fakes.
CBS News management aggressively defended the story in general and the documents in particular – until they didn’t. After about two weeks, CBS threw in the towel and said it could no longer stand by the story. Rather, who had been vigorously defending his story, reluctantly went on the air and admitted the documents could not be authenticated. Later he would say he was forced to do it.
In the aftermath of the fiasco, CBS established an outside panel to look into the matter. In January of 2005 the panel issued a report which concluded the news division failed to establish that the documents were legitimate and not bogus. Mapes was fired. A vice president and two producers were forced to resign. And Dan Rather was a dead man walking.
He had already lost his job as anchorman of the evening news but was allowed to stay on the weekday edition of 60 Minutes, which his story had sent on a glide path to oblivion. And when that show died an inglorious death Rather went over to the Sunday edition of 60 Minutes. But that wouldn’t last long, either. When his contract ran out CBS yanked him off the show, but made him an offer he decided to refuse: Rather would get an office and an assistant and he could report stories for any CBS News broadcast that called on him – if any CBS News broadcast ever chose to call on him. CBS offered Rather $250,000 a year, according to my sources, who say he wanted a million. When he didn’t get it, he quit. According to Rather, he was pushed out the door by the head of CBS, Leslie Moonves.
In 2007, Rather filed his $70 million lawsuit against his old company saying he wasn’t allowed to defend his story because the top management of CBS’ parent company, Viacom, wanted to appease the Bush Administration and protect its business interests.
Until now, the controversy over the Rather/Mapes story has centered almost entirely on one issue: the legitimacy of the documents – a very important issue, indeed. But it turns out that there was another very important issue, one that goes to the very heart of what the story was about – and one that has gone virtually unnoticed. This is it: Mary Mapes knew before she put the story on the air that George W. Bush, the alleged slacker, had in fact volunteered to go to Vietnam.
Who says? The outside panel CBS brought into to get to the bottom of the so-called “Rathergate” mess says. I recently re-examined the panel’s report after a source, Deep Throat style, told me to “Go to page 130.” When I did, here’s the startling piece of information I found:
Mapes had information prior to the airing of the September 8 [2004] Segment that President Bush, while in the TexANG [Texas Air National Guard] did volunteer for service in Vietnam but was turned down in favor of more experienced pilots. For example, a flight instructor who served in the TexANG with Lieutenant Bush advised Mapes in 1999 that Lieutenant Bush “did want to go to Vietnam but others went first.” Similarly, several others advised Mapes in 1999, and again in 2004 before September 8, that Lieutenant Bush had volunteered to go to Vietnam but did not have enough flight hours to qualify.
This information, despite the fact that it has been available since the CBS report came out four years ago, has remained a secret to almost everybody both in and out of the media — one lonely fact in a 234- page report loaded with thousands of facts, and overshadowed by the controversy surrounding the documents.
I made an online check and discovered that while a few websites noted the CBS finding, the story got no ink (that I could find) on the news pages of any big mainstream paper. I did manage to find two opinion pieces about the CBS mess – one in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, the other in the Miami Herald — that briefly, and only in passing, mentioned the “Bush volunteered” angle. But that was it! A check of network newscasts turned up nothing. And when I questioned two journalists with intimate knowledge of the story, both said Mapes never shared her information with them.
For the record: George W. Bush has always maintained that he joined the National Guard not to avoid service in Vietnam but because he wanted to be a fighter pilot. He has openly acknowledged that he did not want to be drafted and serve in the infantry, and says he signed up for the Guard knowing full well he would have to spend almost two years in flight training and another four years in part-time service.
It is also true, however, that in his 1968 application to join the Texas Air National Guard Bush was asked if he wanted to go overseas and he checked the box that said “do not volunteer.” But as the Washington Post reported on July 28, 1999: “Bush said in an interview that he did not recall checking the box. Two weeks later, his office provided a statement from a former, state-level Air Guard personnel officer, asserting that since Bush ‘was applying for a specific position with the 147th Fighter Group, it would have been inappropriate for him to have volunteered for an overseas assignment and he probably was so advised by the military personnel clerk assisting him in completing the form.’” He later told the Post: “Had my unit been called up, I’d have gone . . . to Vietnam. I was prepared to go.”
However the complexities and seeming contradictions are interpreted, if Bush at any point had volunteered to fly combat missions in Vietnam – as the CBS investigation unequivocally states — how then could he have been a slacker? The clear answer is that he could not – unless, of course, he volunteered to go to Vietnam knowing full well he wouldn’t be taken. But if that was the case Mapes would have had an obligation to report both that he volunteered and then produce a credible witness to say it was a sham. She did neither.
Mapes, a well-known liberal at CBS News, has always contended that she had no agenda, that she was not out to get President Bush. But if she knew that George Bush had volunteered for service in Vietnam – as the CBS outside panel clearly concludes — she obviously had an obligation to share that with her viewers.
Now the question is, did she share what she knew with her correspondent, Dan Rather. Or to put it another way: What did Rather know — and when did he know it? The answers may come out at trial, if his case against CBS goes that far. At the moment, neither side appears anxious to settle.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHVwrCzRUX0
Teabaggers getting punked….. PRICELESS! Too bad they are too stupid to realize that they are being made fun of, not supported…
As one who is the same age as you, I would like to know HOW DID YOU GET OUT OF THE DRAFT? I see NO mention of military service anywhere in any reference to your life. Absent such notice, I will have to class you among the no so brave CHICKENHAWKS!
Let it go man!!! It’s over. Your obsession is rather creepy. You and your comrades need critical medical attention. My prescription: read the The Constitution of the United states and call me in the morning.
This may help also:
Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder
Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, OCD, or it’s related disorder, Bush-Derangement-Disorder, BDS, is an anxiety disorder and is characterized by recurrent, unwanted thoughts (obsessions) and/or repetitive behaviors (compulsions). Repetitive behaviors such as, parroting Micheal Moore documentaries. Deifying thoughtless monsters who have no regard for human life. The last and final stage of the disorder is electing officials who they feel will support and dictate every aspect of their life. The diesise
sorry need to re-post….
Let it go man!!! It’s over. Your obsession is rather creepy. You and your comrades need critical medical attention. My prescription: read the The Constitution of the United states and call me in the morning.
This may help also:
Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder
Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, OCD, or it’s related disorder, Bush-Derangement-Disorder, BDS, is an anxiety disorder and is characterized by recurrent, unwanted thoughts (obsessions) and/or repetitive behaviors (compulsions). Repetitive behaviors such as, parroting Micheal Moore documentaries. Deifying thoughtless monsters who have no regard for human life. The last and final stage of the disorder is electing officials who they feel will support and dictate every aspect of their life.
The disorder can also be identified by taking away all Government support. The patient will slowly go into a fetal position while chanting “Yes We Can” or “Change”. Doctors need to be careful treating these individuals. The Doctor should not ask the patient to explain what they mean when they say “Yes We Can”. The patient will become non-responsive and will begin mumbling “9/11 was an inside job”. If this occurs immediately give the patient access to the Huffington Post. Micheal Moore Documentaries will work, but caution should be taken not to expose people with an IQ higher than 70 to his movies. If exposed, a person with a IQ higher than 70 will start laughing uncontrollably and may fall to the ground gasping for air and may die od asphyxiation.
So far, there is no cure for this disorder. One possible cure is to get the patient to take responsibility for their own actions. This is a dangerous treatment because the patient is not used to thinking for themselves. Be sure a picture of Nancy Pelosi or Barney Frank is available if they start crying uncontrollably.
People with IQs higher than 70 are not affected by this disorder. But should try to be compassionate with affected individuals. They are not used to original thought or introspection. We should feel sorry for these people, it must be a burden relying on Democrat Talking Points and Micheal Moore movies for their direction in life.
Why didn’t Bush enlist in the regular USAF if he wanted to go to Vietnam? The question answers itself with the obvious. The Guard had very little presence in Vietnam and was the best way to AVOID going. Also, if he went the regular USAF route, his political connections would not be as great an advantage. He would have had to go to OCS to get his commission, instead of it being handed to him after he got out of basic training. I find it remarkable that NOBODY wants to mention that FACT. That Bush avoided having to do what almost every officer in the USAF had to do which is OCS or ROTC or the Academy. He simply had a better way, his DADDY! I also had to laugh at the FACT that the commanding General at Lackland AFB wrote in nice letter to his daddy about how well his son would do in training. I don’t think my Mom even got a letter from him when I went in.
Let’s pretend it is a fact, SOOOOOO!!! WHAAAAAAAAATTTTT!!!!
He broke no laws, he is no longer in office. Buddy, let go of this insane hatred and start worrying about going to the DMV for your medical needs. Just sit and wait for them to call your number.
Bush broke no laws, Kennedy killed a women. Left the scene and went to bed. Got up and had breakfast while a women sat dead in a lake. And you guy’s deify the man.
I guess you just can’t fix stupid………
But, but Andy, Bernie is trying to make Bush out to be a hero, but they wouldn’t let him!
That Bush EVER wanted to go to Vietnam at ANY time is absurd on the face of it. His joining the Guard alone is PROOF of his desire to stay FAR away from it. He could have easily joined the Air Force and become a pilot and the USAF had LOTS of slots for people like him. He also made quite clear on his enlistment form IN WRITING that he had NO desire to even go overseas, MUCH less Vietnam! So just what do YOU don’t understand about NO?
george Bush never volunteered for Vietnam and i have that from an unimpeachable source on that subject: George W Bush.
In the feb 7, 2004 interview wth Tim Russert, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4179618/ Bush himself denies ever having volunteered for Vietnam:
“…Russert: Were you favor of the war in Vietnam?
President Bush: I supported my government. I did. And would have gone had my unit been called up, by the way.
Russert: But you didn’t volunteer or enlist to go.
President Bush: No, I didn’t. …’
that means that anyone who says he did is just making it up. Who would know bettter if George W Bush volunteered for Vietnam……. than George W Bush?
Sounds like his pilot friends were just trying to pad his resume
It’s been mentioned in the comments already, but I think it should be stressed how similar Bush and Kerry’s military service really was. Many, many, people still don’t know how uncannily similar Bush and Kerry were. To this day, many people not only do not know that Bush served at all, but that he actually served longer in the military than Kerry did.
Both men came from wealthy, politically connected families. Both men used their families connections to get officer assignments in reserve units. Both men signed up for 6 year tours. Both men spent the first two years on full time active duty. Neither man fulfilled their full 6 year tours.
John Kerry joined the Navy Reserves in 1966. After graduating from OCS he spent the first two years on a ship that patrolled the waters off Vietnam called the USS Gridley. Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968. He spent his first two years learning to fly jets. Now, you can argue all day who had the more dangerous assignment. Kerry serving as a junior officer on a ship during what was a ground and air war, or Bush volunteering as a pilot in a reserve unit that was unlikely to be sent to Vietnam. Me? I tend to give Bush credit for volunteering in 1968 at all. I’m certainly no expert on the Vietnam War or the 60’s, but there was a huge difference in the war from 1966 to 1968 and anyone faced with the draft in 1968 had to be scared shitless.
After Kerry’s first two years were up he volunteered for Swift Boat duty. By his own admission, at the time he volunteered it was his quickest route to a promotion, meant he could actually say he “served” in Vietnam, and was one of the safest assignments he could get. The fact that its mission changed shortly after he volunteered for it, and it did become a dangerous assignment, may be why Kerry worked so hard to get those three Purple Hearts so he could get out of Vietnam. It doesn’t matter who you want to believe, the fact is that Kerry managed to get a Silver Star, Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts in less than 4 months without ever needing anything more than a Band-aid.
After his third Purple Heart got him sent home in 1969, Kerry spent the next few months as a driver for Navy brass in New York. He requested a change to inactive status to run for political office and his request was approved. There is no record of Kerry serving another day in uniform after 1970. So giving Kerry a generous benefit of the doubt, judging by the documents on his campaign website (which is our only source of information since he refused to sign the 180), Kerry served for about 4 years of his 6 year tour.
George W. Bush served his first two years on full time active duty in Texas. I’m too lazy to go look up all these dates again, but at some point after that he requested a transfer to Alabama to work on the political campaign of a family friend. His request was denied but he moved to Alabama anyway. The transfer was approved and Bush did his Reserve duty in Alabama. (Bush did sign the 180 and the media went over his records with such a fine tooth comb that we know he had a dentist appointment on a Saturday in Alabama.)
In October 1973 Bush requested early discharge to attend Harvard Business school. He had earned enough points to qualify for early discharge and his request was granted. So Bush served a little over 5 1/2 years.
And yes, Bush did have a higher grade point average than Kerry. But that’s another story most people don’t know. Neither men were Rhodes Scholars.
re the REAL story that George W Bush volunteered to go to Viet Nam but was turned down in favor of more experiences pilots, and CBS knew about it.
I have it on factual evidence from a Houston lawyer that WBush never soloed, which is about as inexperienced as one can get as a so-called “pilot” as in his case. Now, that’s the REAL story that no one is talking about—WBush was not even a pilot.
I hope Bernard Goldberg, and CBS, and Rather, and Mapes follows up on this. Gonna be touch though since nearly every record of WBush’s misspent youth have been hidden and/or destroyed, mostly while he was Governor.
So let the truth come out—Rather was hung out to dry on a technicality (Rove’s specialty) for reporting the REAL story about the inexperienced WBush who never flew solo.
Bixxo,
You don’t wear those wings until AFTER you solo. I suggest you get a more reliable source than your lawyer friend.
“I have it on factual evidence from a Houston lawyer that WBush never soloed, ”
Please name said lawyer, his basis for that statement, and please post the “factual evidence”.
Do you also believe the earth is flat? I know you believe it’s warming.
Please supply the factual evidence you claim to have seen. If not, you are just another nutroot liberal. Please get some help…..you are creeping me out with you irrational obsession. Why not dig into why Ted Kennedy left a woman to drown. He was only worried about his career and image. You obsess over someone’s flight skills yet celebrate and deify a murderer. It so sad that this country has people who put their idealism and party affiliation above human life.
I seem to remember that GHW Bush also, let someone drown! But, that has nothing to do about this subject!
This post has been linked for the HOT5 Daily 8/28/2009, at The Unreligious Right
As I recall the incident (and your story confirms), the Outside Panel waited until well after the 2004 election to present the results of its investigation. Was the Panel influenced by CBS to delay its findings so that there would be a cloud over the President’s candidacy?
This all fits for me. I don’t see the fact pointing to GW being a caowrd. I think it portrays him as someone who wanted to live up to his father’s deeds and reputation.
All y’all check out what pilots and instructors that flew with Bush had to say; go to http://www.valorstudios.com/wingmen/roome.htm ( the URL used to be WingmenForBush.com).
Click on each pilots picture, and click on the titles under the large picture.
Bush was considered an excellent pilot and a natural leader. The reason he’s never said anything is because whatever he’d say would be called a lie by bleeding-heart liberals. He’ll let history judge.
Cowards do not volunteer to fly a F102.
If someone was seeking an easy safe haven from operational duty during the Vietnam War, flying one of the most dangerous operational aircraft single engine combat jets ever put into service was not it. More crew died from accidents even in combat zones than were ever killed by the enemy.
Like another commenter I was in the military and have friends who were fighter jocks. Mr Wil Burns clearly has no clue. The idea that any fighter jock would give a moments thought to the danger of combat if such a posting were offered is laughable. Most would sell their own mother if it meant the opportunity to shoot at bad guys. (I have never met a fighter jock who thought anybody could actually hit them because they all believe they are the best, otherwise they wouldn’t do it.)
As a retired airline captain and Vietnam era Air Force vet, I have a Better question to ask. Why would Bush try and get OUT of flying? Why would he refuse to take his physical when he knew it would ground him? All real pilots I knew HATED to be grounded! Bush was NOT a real pilot at any time given his choices. Bush was certainly like NO pilot I have ever known.
Did anyone ever read the transcript from Meet The Press in 2004 where Bush said he NEVER volunteered to go to Vietnam, but he was “ready” to go! Brave words after the fact of him not going.
People like Wil talk about the Bush connections and pull and in the late 60’s there wasn’t any. Texas was a Democrat state with a Democrat Governor, State House and State Senate. The Adjutant General for the Guard is a political appointee. When W joined the Guard George H. W. Bush was a single term back bencher. He was a wealthy oilman, but certainly not the richest oilman in Texas in those days. He probably wasn’t even the richest oilman in the River Oaks section of Houston where he lived. The W detractors want to use the pull that 41 acquired after he was a congressman, after he ran the RNC, after heading the CIA, after serving as Vice President and after being President, but in 1968 Texas, the Bush family really didn’t have any.
I just got this link from Little Green Footballs and I’m happy to have found it. I bought and read ARROGANCE a few years ago and learned a lot!
And you mean if I refuse to take the physical/drug test (newly instituted at that time), I won’t have to fly anymore?
And if I fly those F-102’s used in nam, is it possible they will ship me there for being awol?
The Washington Post reports that Bush joined the National Guard 12 days before his student deferment would have expired, and that in spite of his low score on the pilot’s aptitude test (25, the lowest score allowed), and in spite of the waiting list that some kids spent years on, Bush was sworn in as an airman the day he applied. Indeed, so giddy was Bush’s commander, Col. Walter B. “Buck” Staudt, that he later staged a special ceremony so he could have his picture taken giving Bush the oath, instead of the captain who actually had sworn Bush in. Bush spent two years learning to fly airplanes in his home state of Texas.
As the 2000 Presidential campaign moved along, angry veterans in Alabama claimed that George W Bush never performed any military service in that state, as stated on his campaign website. They offered a reward of $1000 (which rose to $3,500) to anyone who could prove that he had. No one came forth with any proof.
Eight days before the election, the Boston Globe reported discrepancies between the Bush campaign’s statements regarding his military service and what records and documents showed. In 1972, the Globe reported, Bush moved from Houston to Mobile, Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. It was at this time, the Globe found, that he was suspended from flight duty for not taking his annual flight physical. Furthermore, the Globe could find no evidence that he ever performed any drills while in Alabama, or any more drills after returning to Houston.
Bush refused to answer any questions concerning the charges. His official White House biography states, “He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard before beginning his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975…” but gives no further details about his military service.
http://www.hereinreality.com/com…/ commander.html
Where are the records for the missing time?
Billy Boy, take your meds.
Drug testing in the Air Guard did not begin until the 1980’s, no matter what Eric Boehlert of Slate says. The regs did not allow testing for Guardsmen while in civilian status and not subject to UCMJ, which Guardsmen were in most days of the month. Legislation had to be passed and regulations drawn up to address this gap, and that did not happen until the ’80s.
The “Alabama veterans” were two Eastern Airlines pilots who lost their jobs because Eastern went bankrupt after the pilot strike and George HW Bush would not give Eastern a bailout. They hated the Bush family.
It was a $10, 000 reward, as was another award offered by draft dodger Gary Trudeau (Doonesbury). Four Alabama Guard personnel did vouch for Bush’s presence in Alabama – a flight surgeon, a safety officer, a clerk, and a dentist. But both of the awards were set up with the language “. . . subsequent to the date of this announcement. . .” which meant these four witnesses did not qualify because they came out earlier.
You’re making a fool of yourself. Kiss your poster of Mary Mapes and go to bed.
Funny how GW himself never said anything about this in the years since this occurred.. You’d think it would have been a simple enough thing. There seems to be little corroborating evidence. None of his commanders said anything like this, none of his friends or anyone.
keep reaching guys.
Um, CBS internal investigation reports this. About how their own story ignored this…that is the point. These journalist tried to manipulate the election. That is the story here.
Keep your head in he sand if you like…
What do you mean Mandamus that “none of his commanders or friends said anything like this” According to Bernie’s article the CBS panel that investigated Dan Rather says on page 130:
“For example, a flight instructor who served in the TexANG with Lieutenant Bush advised Mapes in 1999 that Lieutenant Bush “did want to go to Vietnam but others went first.” Similarly, several others advised Mapes in 1999, and again in 2004 before September 8, that Lieutenant Bush had volunteered to go to Vietnam but did not have enough flight hours to qualify.”
So we have the word of a flight instructor, as well as others. It’s amazing how Mandamus and Wil Burns make all these claims with no evidence, no sources, nothing but vague assertions and then accuse us of “reaching”. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me. Why didn’t we hear about this years before they ask? That was a major point in the article above, the news media will simply ignore anything that could justify George W Bush. That’s precisely the problem that you refuse to admit, your favorite sources of news are too corrupt to print, or air, or even look into the truth. But that’s why CBS had to fire a VP, a producer, and put Rather out to pasture, solely because they got caught by conservative bloggers who proved that the type fonts of the the CBS documents were fake. Were they caught by any of the other powerful billion dollar news media organizations that you put so much faith in? No. They were caught by conservative bloggers. The rest of the news media simply looked on with glee to see a Republican embarrassed. If you had any decency you would be the one who is embarrassed.
Or simply check the box on his admission papers that says he volunteered.
He checked the box that said DOES NOT VOLUNTEER.
He only inquired about it ALLEGEDLY when he knew his plane was ineligible to go.
Wil:
If you read the article which quotes the report, the reason the box was not checked was because he was applying to a specific guard unit and which unit was not then deployed. It goes on to say that he would have been counseled to check the box as indicated.
If you hate Bush beyond all reason, then you believe that the documents were real and prepared using a secret copy of MS Word that was available in the early 1970’s while Bill Gates was still in school. It is irrelevant to you that the rest of the world is laughing at these CBS dupes. People who think the earth is flat aren’t lying, they really think it’s flat. Does that make them liars? No, just morons.
If you have any experience with the military you understand that fighter jocks will sign anything so long as they can fly. Going to war only means more flying. They fight for the slots (hence the senior guys win them). If you are scared about getting hurt, you don’t go to flight school. You do choose an MOS like journalism (i.e. PFC Al Gore).
If Mapes suppressed information from several witnesses who all told her that Bush volunteered for service isn’t that newsworthy? I guess not for those who hate Bush or think the world is flat. For the rest of the world it is a critical fact and undermines the whole nonsense that Bush was shirking his duty.
Maybe she took Bush’s word for it instead of his friends.
In the feb 8 2004 interview with Tim Russert, GWB himself says he didn’t volunteer for Vietnam:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4179618/
“…Russert: Were you favor of the war in Vietnam?
President Bush: I supported my government. I did. And would have gone had my unit been called up, by the way.
Russert: But you didn’t volunteer or enlist to go.
President Bush: No, I didn’t. …
What part of “No I didn’t”don’t you understand? You too, nr Goldberg! To say he did is to call GWB a liar.
His pilot budddies were obviously trying to pad his resume for him–notice none of them saiid this under oath! Too bad Mr Goldberg didn’t read this interview before he started making false claims that GWB volunnteered for Vietnam. If Mary Mapes didn’t include Bush’s pilot buddies claims that he had, its because she got the word straight from the horse’s mouth—or some other orifice.
Hey, you nutroot idiot. Why do you spend your time trying to smear a president who is not even in office. He is no longer in the news.
Fine, let’s just say you are right (you are totally wrong) but let’s pretend.
- George Bush did not volunteer. SO WHAT, the man did not break any laws.
- He did not show up for service. SO WHAT, the man did not break any laws. Hell, Kerry was missing for years (fact you conveniently forget)
- He lied about his record. SO WHAT, the man did not break any laws. Hell, Clinton could not go a day without lying.
And yet, you deify a senator who ran away from a fatal accident. Went to a hotel to sleep and never reported the accident. The man called his adviser’s while an innocent women was dead and still in the lake. Now, if Bush had done this we would have something important to discuss.
You spew nothing but meaningless verbal garbage. You blindly parrot talking points supplied to you by left-wing sites.
Let’s see:
You condone a man who let a women drown because he was more worried about his career than saving a life.
You hate and want to ruin a man who may have skipped some guard duty and took advantage of privilege,
You have no moral compass…I do feel sorry for people like you. It must be a burden needing Government to dictate how to run your life,
Let’s pretend it is a fact, SOOOOOO!!! WHAAAAAAAAATTTTT!!!!
He broke no laws, he is no longer in office. Buddy, let go of this insane hatred and start worrying about going to the DMV for your medical needs. Just sit and wait for them to call your number.
Bush broke no laws, Kennedy killed a women. Left the scene and went to bed. Got up and had breakfast while a women sat dead in a lake. And you guy’s deify the man.
I guess you just can’t fix stupid………
My father was in the Army during WWII and never saw combat. My brother was in the Army during Vietnam, never saw combat. I was in the Navy in the 80s and 90s, guess what? Never saw combat. My family has ZERO in the way of political connections.
The fact is the even in times of war a lot of military members do not see combat. Doesn’t diminish the fact that they volunteered for service for their country, which is a lot more than I can say for a lot of the left.
“Mapes, a well-known liberal at CBS News”
Oh, like THAT narrows it down…
D’oh!
http://www.observer.com/2009/media/bernard-goldbergs-lost-fact-about-mary-mapes-had-already-been-revealed-publicly-bymary-ma
You’re missing the point, Mapes Book. The real issue is why that trainer who told Mapes in 1999 that Bush wanted to go to Vietnam was not a part of the 2004 story. Reporters are supposed to show both sides of the issue. She deliberately ignored facts that were positive towards Bush, and emphasized fraudulent documents that were negative towards Bush. That’s the scandal. And Bernie’s scoop was actually a scoop, because probably only about a dozen people read Mapes’ book.
The quote from your link is:
“Udell told me that Bush had wanted to go to Vietnam.”
Udel’s opinion that Bush wanted to go is a far cry from Bush actually volunteering to go.
Think!!!
Bernie:
Thanks for the great article and for proclaiming the lack of fair journalism in the mainstream media. The liberal bias and out right misinformation in the mainstream media became pathetically obvious during the last presidential election and continues with the never ending efforts of liberals to silence any other point of view other than their own. Maybe some liberals really have good intentions but unfortunately they are on the road to the worst kind of corruption despite whatever motivations they may have. When national news media anchors ignore the truth to promote their personal preference, they really ought to lose their jobs like Dan Rather did. Unfortunately that didn’t happen after the last election, and so called journalists turned out to be cheer leaders rather than reporters of the news.
I believe that Bernie comes from a liberal background, and when he says that journalism is dead all reasonable people should take note and realize how much trouble our country is in. Democracy cannot survive when truth and fact are no longer disseminated. Even if Pres. Obama has nothing but the best intentions, one day we will find ourselves stuck with a corrupt President and a news media that pedals nothing other than the lies of a dictator. The book “1984″ may turn out to be 2012 if people don’t wake up to the direction our country is headed, and demand fairness and honesty from our news media. The fact that the ratings of NBC are tanking may be an indication that there are still a lot of people who do care, and they want the whole story, not just a cheer leading squad for their favorite cause.
Deepest condolences on your loss and thank you for your brother willingness to make the ultimate sacrifice.
Just 41 years ago today I lost my brother in Vietnam . Even tho’ he was born a blue baby and had corrective heart surgery [bypass' were a thing in the future] he had surgery in 1957. And volunteered twice and was finally accepted. Did the same job that Radar did in MASH].
Did Bernie Goldberg and Bill O’Reilly ever volunteer to go to Viet Nam? If not, why not!
And what does that have to do with anything in Bernie’s article?
Will, there is a $5 fine for whinning!!!
Great informational reporting. This is on par to the story where Dateline fixed the rivers in Washington to show the fish kill or the story against GM on the exploding trucks. We know news comes down to dollars and cents, but fixing the news, isn’t that what we call the “yellow-press!”
Think about it people, if George Bush really wanted to go and fight in Viet Nam, with his connections, he would have been there in a New York minute. So, lets stop the nonsense!
You seem pretty convinced about your pov, and I don’t know whether you’re a vet, (I’m not) but I have many friends in the military now and many who have been before, and they all tell me there’s a ridiculous bureaucratic element, that you can’t do anything w/o lots of red tape.
Has it not always been so? These delays, misinfo, boxes you’re not supposed to check, etc. all sound like business as usual in the military to me.
Remember when all the news was that enlistment was down? I had 3 friends who had difficulty even enlisting, at that time when you would think the process would be expedited, and this would happen, that would happen, this job opened up, this one is full, yadda, yadda, yadda. The list went on and on.
Was this not true in the 60s? For example, my dad wasn’t drafted in Vietnam for a RIDICULOUS reason that made him fail a physical. Don’t things like that still happen?
I know what I’m saying is anecdotal, b/c I don’t provide stats or anything, but thousands of anecdotes would be significant, wouldn’t they?
And I have dozens of military friends (when you have one close one, you sort of get his buddies, too) and they all say the same. I couldn’t have met the only people who would say these things.
So isn’t there a possibility that it happened just the way Bush supporters said it did? Why is your side’s story more likely? B/c this guy’s dad was a pol? It’s not as if he were a general.
Can you admit there’s a chance that you don’t have this right?
George Bush never left the US and fought in Viet Nam! That is the relevant fact!
Woulda
coulda
shoulda
Didn’t!
The facts as to why Bush didn’t fly in Nam are clearly stated in the article and in the comments below and they offer witnesses to back up their claims. Burns where are you witnesses, or facts? You haven’t proved anything except how much hot air and hate you can push around.
“Think about it people, if George Bush really wanted to go and fight in Viet Nam, with his connections, he would have been there in a New York minute. So, lets stop the nonsense!”
You should reread the article (if you seek the truth and understanding, that is). Bush did not want to go into infantry; he wanted to be a pilot. That is quite understandable given that his DAD was a fighter pilot. To become one, he had to undergo training. That is what the people that were there say: he wanted to go, but did not yet qualify; others went before him.
Now, why have you overlooked those pesky facts? Do you dislike Bush more than you like the truth?
Any-one want to take on the Texas Air National guard AWOL and susequent desertion in war -time? If you do make sure you fill in the part about juming over 500+ applicants already in line for a TANG slot , a little trick arranged for Poppy by his friends. There was and still may-be a $10,000 cash reward for any-one who serverd with bushie after he ” went to Alabama and “transfered im” Except the commanding officer, a General “Turnipseed” denied that bushie ever showed up! That’s the desertion from TANG part!
——————————-
Except that”Turnipseed” didn’t deny anything. He only said that he couldn’t remember. As it turned out, he couldn’t remember much of anything else. Didn’t matter. The liberals had what they wanted and NEVER want their minds clouded with reality.
Bush was taken immediately because he was willing to join immediately. All the in-line applicants wanted deferred entry.
Not to mention all that BS you’re shoveling has already been addressed by those who have actually served, both in the regulars & reserves. For example, one reason Bush wouldn’t have stood out in Alabama was that his new post was a non-flying one. Why? Because the aircraft he was qualified was being phased out.
Also not to mention that reservists like Bush used a point system to record their time, not specific days or schedules, so it would be pretty damn hard to “desert.” As long he he accumulated the points, he fulfilled his obligation.
Facts are difficult things.
I recognize Burns’ personality type; obsessed and denying reality to the point of neurosis. His behavior is nearly exactly matched by the twits who insist that Barry Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii, or NASA never landed men on the moon. They always have a “yet, but what about?” tucked away, because devout belief (and in the case of Barry, haters) trumps reality.
Norman Bishop says:
August 26, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Bush actually volunteered TWICE for Vietnam. The first time, he lacked enough time in the F-102 aircraft — the second time, the USAF was closing down the program.
Ha-ha, How convienent! Really, he volunteered for nothing!
Ok, we get the idea you don’t like GWB !!!!!!!! Must really make your day to know that no care what you (DON’T) think !!!!!!
Come on join in , it’s all out there! Notice how no-one here is refuting ANY of it? Just sending me compliments!!!!!
Wil, ol’ boy!
Grow up.
Just one more failed attempt by the GOP Ministry Of Propaganda to make the dark bottomless pit of the Bush Legacy look like a shining majestic mountain.
You don’t join the air guard if you WANT to go to war.
What a fool you are. Is it your pathetic view that anyone who wanted to become a fighter pilot during the Vietnam era was a slacker because, according to you, they never would have completed their training in time? And I suppose, in 1968 GWB would have known how much longer the Vietnam War had to play out.
Gosh – I guess its a good thing that the cowardly John F’in Kerry won the ‘04 election and W wasn’t re-elected…. Oh, waitaminute, W was re-elected, and Kerry did get himself shot in the a** with corn kernals (or whatever) to get his phoney baloney “purple heart” discharge from his 3-month-tour. (Or was that 3-hour-tour…. or was that Gilligan….)
What a bunch of losers….
“You don’t join the air guard if you WANT to go to war.”
I don’t know whose ministry of propaganda YOU work for, but you are not doing a good job (thinking is required to create even propaganda). Bush did not want just to go to war on any conditions; he wanted to be a pilot (like his father — can you related to that? It’s just human, you know).
You have committed here a well-known logical fallacy — pars pro toto (taking part for the whole). If Bush did not want to volunteer UNCONDITIONALLY, you claim, he then did not want to volunteer at ALL.
WARNING: be careful in thinking about logic. If you do start thinking logically and aspire to intellectual honesty, you’ll discover “uncomfortable” facts, and those can make you a conservative. You’ll have much less of a cognitive dissonance if you continue to disregard logic and fact — good intentions are all that is necessary for a good man, aren’t they?
You really are a moron. All of your foolish claims have been proven wrong and you still rant on. Pathetic.
One of the things that IS on the record is that at that time, only experienced F-102 pilots were being sent (as in over 1000 hours in the F-102), when Bush was still finishing up his training. Training on an aircraft that was being phased out, and one that he couldn’t even be bothered to maintain his flight status on. So yeah, small wonder that that particular little footnote didn’t make the cut for airtime.
Wil:
Aside from Bush Derangement Syndrome, how do you account for the fact that Bush volunteered for fighter jets? If Poppy was pulling the strings as you are convinced, why not pick something safe? Take a look at accident mishaps for that class of A/C and you will note that it is far more dangerous than any other MOS (possibly not EOD on a percentage). If he is the Shrub, the shirker, the coward against Kerry’s camera toting self aggrandizement, why choose to be fighter jock? Maybe it was the plain answer that they all have: service and challenge outweighing personal risk. Of course that doesn’t fit with the talking point, so BDS explains it better.
Goldberg predicted that partisanship would blind Rather to the truth and be his downfall in his book “Bias”. This is precisely what happened. Goldberg didn’t invent this, he just spent a career observing the man and had a pretty good idea of what would happen. Drunk drivers end up getting arrested. Biased reporters end up losing site of the truth and embarassing themselves.
Back in 2004, before or after the election (I can’t rememember), I engaged in a back-and-forth in the pages of the Vineyard Gazette (or was it the Martha’s Vineyard Times?) with a gentleman whose name I can’t remember.
His issue was that Bush was a slacker because he failed to show up for duty with the AFNG in Alabama in 1972. He apparently did not appear on USAF pay records for two months that summer.
In the course of this exchange, I discovered two more unreported facts:
1. I found a memo (on the internet) from his commanding officer-to-be in Alabama, welcoming him to the unit, but advising him that this was a non-paying position. This was like April or May 1972.
2. I found a second memo (also on the internet) dated several months later from the USAF personnel center in Colorado. This officer advised Bush that a non-paying position could not be used to satisfy his service requirements.
So later, Bush found another position that paid him for reading training manuals, or some such.
Putting the two together, it is clear what happened. Bush needed to complete his requirements, so he had to find another USAF slot in Alabama. This took a couple of months, which is why he didn’t appear on USAF payrolls for a while.
The war was winding down, BTW, and pilots were excess, which is why he could only find a makework job.
I found this stuff on the internet, which leads me to believe that any enterprising newsman could have done so as well.
Regards,
Mike Lion
PS I also can confirm that Bush volunteered (with other F105 pilots) for a program that would rotate them to Vietnam (and other overseas locations). Like you say, for several reasons they were not needed there.
not one of you who did not serve in the U.S.military has any ’standing’to criticize GWB’s service. i did my time ‘66-’68. plus if you didn’t graduate from yale and/ or harvard and you can’t fly a fighter jet —shut up. he’s smarter than you. in fact W’s grades were better than kerry’s at yale.
1. “He volunteered to go to Vietnam.”
– Bush campaign chairman Marc Racicot, yesterday [2/23/04], on National Public Radio
Also, he checked a box on his enlistment forms:
“Furthermore, when he signed up for the Guard, he checked a box saying “Do not volunteer for overseas service.”
“No, I didn’t.”
– President Bush, Feb. 8, responding to a question on NBC’s “Meet the Press” about whether he volunteered to go to Vietnam
http://www.awolbush.com/
$50K reward if ANYONE can show he was on duty for the last 18 MONTHS of service.
Also, failed to take an ORDERED physical, and was therefore GROUNDED from flight:
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/opinion/lechliter.pdf
To you people who support his and Cheney’s TREASON against the USA and the unnecessary deaths of 5000 US Soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis because of Bush and Cheney’s LIES,
Have a good afterlife.
Why didn’t Mapes ever report that Kerry had signed a letter when he graduated from OCS that he would serve six years . Five years of which would be served in either active duty or ready reserve (48 drills and one two week active duty per year) he served 2.5 years active duty and never reported for his reserve commitment. This was according to Kerry’s own campaign web site. He showed the contract he signed but shows no orders to a reserve unit or to active duty for training while claiming his record is complete. Mapes and Rather were concerned about a few drills missed by Bush in his final years while ignoring the 2.5 years Kerry missed, Fair reporting?
I find it absurd that Global Cooler thinks that because it was reported in the Richmond Times Dispatch, this means it was going to be read by everyone in the country. He says Mapes and Rather are less guilty than Goldberg and O’Reilly in this oversight, but declines to criticize the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, or any other large daily newspaper that did not have this information. The MSM, whether print or broadcast, did not say anything because they did not want to absolve George W. Bush of having offered to do his duty to the Country and were hopeful that people would still think Bush had shirked his duty. Goldberg is merely pointing out what the MSM declined to do.
The Washington Post and USA Today knew about it.
The issue here is that this story is NOT an “Exclusive” report as claimed by Bernie Goldberg and never known before. It was out there in 1999 and 2004, and five minutes research would have found it. Before Goldberg made his claim, as a respectable journalist he should have fact checked it.
Mapes story falls apart in more areas than this, because she intentionally filtered out contradictory facts and deliberately avoided known witnesses who had refuting facts.
Someday someone on the inside will write the definitive book on Rathergate. Bernie should wait for that before he claims “exclusives”.
I never said I had an “Exclusive” as you falsely claim. Never. So I can only assume that you carelessly got it wrong … or simply made it up. It’s the latter that troubles me. I don’t like deleting comments from this area. But, as I’ve said before, I won’t allow this site to become a garbage dump like so many others. Honest disagreements are fine. Rabid partisanship, not fine. Be careful next time or post someplace else. Thanks.
Let’s get the facts out here.
You yourself did not use the word “exclusive”. But you allowed O’Reilly to say “exclusive” at least twice during your session with him, to which you never objected. Your unwillingness to correct him on something you now say you knew was wrong is no different than Rather remaining silent when Mapes was promulgating unsubstantiated comments about Bush. “Qui tacet consentit” – silence is consent.
Let’s go over some of the comments you made in your original article, to show that you also are guilty of some shoddy reporting, poor research, and important omissions:
First off, you say:
“This information, despite the fact that it has been available since the CBS report came out four years ago, has remained a secret to almost everybody both in and out of the media — one lonely fact in a 234- page report loaded with thousands of facts, and overshadowed by the controversy surrounding the documents.”
This is grossly wrong. Nothing had “remained a secret” regarding Bush’s volunteering. It was out there in 1994 when Bush ran for governor, in 1999 in a Washington Post piece by Romano and Lardner, in a FEBRUARY 11 2004 LTTE discussion in the Washington Times and Headlined in the Richmond Times Dispatch on February 14th. Of course Mapes was going to ignore items not supportive of her agenda. But she also deliberately ignored or omitted far more damning items than these that she was well aware of. That list is too long to mention here, but I will be glad to go over them with you.
You also created a misimpression when you imply that Bush’s volunteering was somehow countered and watered down when you state:
“It is also true, however, that in his 1968 application to join the Texas Air National Guard Bush was asked if he wanted to go overseas and he checked the box that said “do not volunteer.””
That form with that box on it, AF Form 125, had nothing to do with serving in Vietnam or overseas, nor was it an application to join the Texas Air Guard (he was already in at that point). It was a request to be put on active duty for 53 weeks to attend pilot training, nothing else. (A reservists has to ask to be put on active duty – he can’t be forced unless it is a Presidential callup). Since all eight pilot training bases where in the southern United States, you had to check that NO box (there was no N/A option). Your statement unfortunately gives credence to Bush-hating journalists and bloggers who constantly use this form as proof of Bush’s cowardice.
Finally, I take umbrage at your admonition to me:
“. . . I can only assume that you carelessly got it wrong … or simply made it up. It’s the latter that troubles me. I don’t like deleting comments from this area. But, as I’ve said before, I won’t allow this site to become a garbage dump like so many others. Honest disagreements are fine. Rabid partisanship, not fine. Be careful next time or post someplace else.”
I will give your favorite charity $100 if you can find one statement that I made above that is in error. I find it insulting when my facts, easily substantiated if you wish to contact me, are labeled “garbage”.
You may delete my verifiable and documentable facts if you wish, in which case you are guilty of the same sins as Mapes.
There is a Part II coming you say. Let’s hope you actually did better research on that segment, or be prepared to delete further rebuttals from me.
Bush actually volunteered TWICE for Vietnam. The first time, he lacked enough time in the F-102 aircraft — the second time, the USAF was closing down the program.
NONE of the Democrat charges regarding the Bush military career are legitimate. Having served in both the regular USAF and in the Alabama Air Guard (the same unit as Bush — but a few years earlier) I know the facts. In Alabama, Bush was in an unpaid “casual” status while working on the Red Blount Senate campaign — the squadron knew exactly where he was and he worked about a half hour from the base.
The Guard has to accommodate civilian careers — in my case, I did the week end TV news for WSFA-TV the NBC station, so I flew Mondays and Tuesdays for example.
Having worked for the elder Bush at the RNC, I know he would have never allowed a son of his to cut corners or not comply with what was right, versus what was wrong.
Bush earned something in his military career that John Kerry could not earn — an Honorable Discharge.
Norm,
Do you expect us to believe that just because you were there, served in the same ANG unit, and have personal experiance with Bush Sr., that you can just confuse the issue with facts. In the Obamanation we do not care about facts unless The Leader tells us to care about them.
I volunteered to perform brain surgery, but they insisted on qualifications I didn’t have. Not much chance of me being allowed in the theatre, was there?
It should also be noted that the secretary [name unrecalled] who declared she hadn’t typed the memos in question, and thus they were bogus, nevertheless stated that the CONTENTS of said memos were correct. It is a critical point that often gets overlooked by those seeking only what they wish to see.
The secretary who didn’t type the forged memos, declared the CONTENTS were correct?? May Sir, I forge you a $100 bill, declare the CONTENTS correct, and you accept it???
Yeah, I remember this one: False but true……
that gets me howling every time….
I am sure there are documents showing he volunteered for service in Vietnam; I am sure they will prove to be as fake as Rathers. It was know in the first election that Bush was a draft dodger, so the report was not really news to anyone paying attention. As I remember, on of the sources debunking the Rather documents clarified his debunking with the statement that he did not remember the documents ( they may be fake ) , but that story was essentially correct none the less.
I worked on F-102 fighters for 3 years,and all the pilots I knew were very brave. It wasn’t the safest plane to fly. I have a lot of respect for President Bush for that and many other reasons. I think the cowards are the liberals who even question that.
Sincerely, G. A. Soukkala
MSGT USAF Ret.
Mr. Goldberg’s Internet search skills must be weak.
Goldberg says the story “got no ink” in any mainstream paper. I searched on the obvious keywords “Bush volunteer Vietnam” and found this Washington Post article on as the top result.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm
The article explains that, when Bush volunteered for Vietnam, he would have needed over a 1000 hours of flight to qualify. Bush had nowhere near that many hours, so he must have known it was safe to volunteer. As Goldberg himself says, the “slacker” charge still stands if Bush “volunteered to go to Vietnam knowing full well he wouldn’t be taken.”
Kudos to Global Cooler for his smack-down of O’Reilly’s time-wasting segment on body language. Nonsense it is, but the bimbo shilling that crap has found herself a nice little gig.
Typical liberal hate with no substance, or facts, just name calling.
Bimbo? She’s a total babe!!!! Are you an ugly woman who’s jealous or a gay guy who’s even more jealous? Sorry Bernie it had to be asked.
What she did, IMHO was morally wrong but whether I like it or not, and this is a blotch on our courts, is legally fine. Check the Jane Akers FOX case, the courts ruled it was legal for a reporter to KNOWINGLY lie to the public.
We may expect truth and honesty in the news and from those that report the news but the courts have ruled that they don’t have to give us truth and honesty if they feel otherwise.
It was certainly morally wrong. Considering Ms Mapes tried to sway the election of the POTUS with lies of ommision, it borders on a journalistic coup d’etat.
It is my understanding that George W. Bush did say he did not want to go to Viet Nam as an Infantry soldier, not that he didn’t want to go. As for reserves, my niece’s husband is sitting in Kuwait right now working as a diesel and turbine mechnic since last February. He was in the Navy for several years but they wouldn’t take him in the Naval reserves because he was too old. (33)
Found this on another web-site. Maybe someone can fact-check to see if true.
1. Bill Clinton registers for draft on Sept. 8, 1964, accepting all contractual conditions of registering for draft.
2. Selective Service Number 326 46 228.
3. Bill Clinton classified 2-S on Nov. 17, 1964
4. Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on March 20, 1968
5. Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28, 1969
6. Bill Clinton refuses to report and is not inducted into the military.
7. Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United States Army Reserves on Aug. 07, 1969, under authority of Col. E. Holmes.
8. Clinton signs enlistment papers and takes oath of enlistment.
9. Bill Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the University of Arkansas ROTC, Sept. 1969.
10. Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on Oct. 30, 1969, as enlistment with Army Reserves is revoked by Col. E. Holmes and Clinton now AWOL and subject to arrest under Public Law 90-40 (2)(a) registrant who has failed to report…remain liable for induction.
11. Bill Clinton’s birth date lottery number is 311, drawn Dec. 1, 1969, but anyone who has already been ordered to report for induction is INELIGIBLE.
12. Bill Clinton runs for Congress (1974) while a fugitive from justice under Public Law 90-40.
13. Bill Clinton runs for Arkansas Attorney General (1976) while a fugitive from justice.
14. Bill Clinton receives pardon on Jan. 21, 1977, from President Carter.
15. Bill Clinton FIRST PARDONED FEDERAL FELON ever to serve as President of the United States.
Not comletely true but does contain many factual statements that are true and reveal Clinton to be far more deceitful than Bush could have ever hoped to be.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/felon.asp
And what does that have to do with anything in Bernie’s article?
The simple fact that the news media will go to any extent to embarrass a Republican or conservative, but they keep their mouths shut when there’s dirt on a liberal.
Thanks, Mr. Goldberg for this clarification and communication. It validates what I have always thought of President Bush, the son of a WWII military hero.
One had to be around as a young man during the Viet Nam period in order to truly appreciate potential fate including the military draft . One should underline the fact is that during those times you could volunteer or get drafted and face the possibility death in either case.
Mapes cooked her own goose and good for her.
I can recall when in my teens the death of President John Kennedy and Rather’s around the clock over-emotional and suspiciously opportunistic coverage of that terrible time in our country’s history. I have always been suspect of his motives thereafter.
I always thought Dan Rather was disingenuous and putting on an act to try to invoke empathy from his audience. I was disappointed to see him replace Walter Cronkite. I remember the night that Bush beat Kerry, Dan Rather clearly ceased to report the news when he gave his mocking satiric diatribe description of the people of the country who voted for Bush. The implication was clear that he thought the common people of the American heart land were morons, and he also thought they were too stupid to recognize that he was mocking them.
On a form, that was on the internet, Bush stated he did NOT want to go to Viet Nam and he didn’t! Hell, Bush was training in an obsolete plane that was never going to be used in combat!
’nuff said!
Asked and answered. See especially Global Cooler’s post below on point one; numerous men who actually know what they’re talking about address the F-102 issue in detail. You might consider reading the comments in the forum before reflexively reciting a Bush-haters myth.
Oooooh, you saw it on the internet, it MUST be true. That’s lame.
The F-102 did see limited service in Vietnam in bomber escort and ground attack roles. It’s not surprising that a veteran jet like the F-102 would have been used for training by Air National Guard Units because it was well established, and people knew what to expect from it. The fact everybody seems to miss is that flying jet fighters is a very hazardous occupation where people die just performing routine training exercises and, note that you didn’t see Bill Clinton risking his yellow neck flying a fighter jet. The Phantom F-4 and the Thud F-105 were more routinely used in Vietnam.
It’s hilarious how liberals tarred and feathered Bush because he volunteered to serve in the TANG. Overlooked is the fact that there was no evidence that Bush was trying to secure his “future political viability” as another future president admitted, in writing no less. Bill Clinton actually did “dodge” the draft and he is considered a hero to liberals, while Bush was reviled and the target of a phony “hit piece” because he actually served his country. Disgusting! Mr. Rather, for all his years as a highly paid elitist “journalist” abandon all his accumulated journalistic ethics to try to defeat a Republican whom he despised. He lost his job and reputation because he was caught. Good riddance. The world of journalisn does not need guys like Dan Rather. Being a multi-millionaire television journalist and standing in the rain with a microphone does not give Rather a lifetime tenure as a TV star. He blew it. Now he should just get a real job, quit whining and just go away!
There is a reason why Dan Rather is so despised by peers, co-workers and former co-workers. Rather is a dishonest, double dealing, untrustworthy son of a bitch and I for one hope the judge in Rather’s so called “law suit” awards him every thing he deserves – NOTHING!!!!!!!
Amen!! Dan Rather, as well as many other journalists, are great reporters when they get a story that is not political – like a hurricane, a murder mystery, or the like. However, when they venture into reporting of a political issue, often times their bias appears. Most of the time it is subtle and almost undetectible. However, Dan Rather more often than not – especially in the Bush 41 and Bush 43 years – clearly slanted his reporting to slam Bush and to bolster his critics. It was disgraceful. The maddening thing to me was when he was questioned about it repeatedly, he appeared amazed that such questions qould be asked of “Dan Rather,” the mega-journalist. “Who, ME!!!!” He always thought we were stupid. That’s what got to me the most. When he was caught red-handed in the TANG mess, he simply continued his ruse. I’m so glad he’s marginalized now – even by his old colleagues at CBS. See, Dan, we could actually get along without you every day – imagine that?
Why TANG versus USAF? Whether joining TANG or USAF, all pilots had to have a sufficient number of training hours to be sent to Vietnam. Although President Bush put in far more hours than required, he still did not have enough to be sent to Vietnam in the summer of 1970 when, as part of Palace Alert, pilots could volunteer to be sent.
Furthermore, about 2,000 (eight tactical fighter squadrons plus a tactical reconnaissance squadron) were mobilized and four tactical fighter squadrons (plus elements of the 355th Tactical Fighter Squadron) were sent to Vietnam beginning in June of 1968. Those ANG activations began in January 1968 So, when President Bush graduated, in 1968, the Texas Air National Guard was not a way to avoid being sent to Vietnam since TANG could be next.
It was a way to avoid the draft and, as history shows, a good way to avoid Vietnam.
Joining the Navy was also a good way to avoid the draft, as John Kerry did.
True, but Kerry actually joined the Naval Reserve — not the Navy.
Maybe Bush didn’t want to go to Nam, so what? He was the son of a well-placed father, so what? Absolutely nothing Bush did was as egregious as what Bill Clinton actually did as a draft dodging, war-protesting leftist while at Oxford, or Yale, during the same period. The war was unpopular and many parents, like mine (WWII vets) who didn’t want their sons coming hom in a body bag. Honor those who served, but for God’s sake keep things in perspective. The point is, and should remain, what kind of BS Dan Rather was involved with in an attempt to defeat a president he did not like. It’s not about Bush. Its about a biased journalist who should have known better.
If he wanted to go to VN, why join the Texas National Guard and not the USAF?
Some pilots-to-be join the Guard because they feel they have a better chance of flying jets (in neither the AF or the ANG do airmen just “”decide” they are going to be pilots–it’s a gauntlet to get there). Maybe because he wanted to serve his state, too, seeing that his father was a Congressman at the time. Who knows? That’s really beside the point. The contention is not “Bush was hell bent to go to Vietnam.” The headline is the destitute failure of our leftist media to have reported the story without obvious bias.
Oh, and one more thing: Being in the USAF by no means meant you were necessarily “in country.”
I was in the USAF about the time Bush enlisted in the Texas ANG. If Bush had joined the USAF he would also have to be assigned to the Tactical Air Command or the Air Defense Command to fly fighters. There is was a good chance Bush could have been assigned to other commands such as SAC which flies only bombers and refueling aircraft, KC-135s. He could also have been assigned to fly cargo planes or helicopters. Those are risks he would not have had to take if he joined the ANG.
Thanks for your service, Ron. I should have added above that being in the TxANG by no means meant you would not be deployed “in country,” as indeed many in the 147th were.
But these are comments by people so distant from those who serve them, they haven’t a clue. I think they would be shocked to know that the National Guard has served in every war in the nation’s history (thus represented by our hero, George Washington) and that Guard and Ready Reserve comprise 47 percent of those fighting for us now.
If you apply to the TexANG you stay in Texas for the remaining for years most likely. If you apply to the USAF then you might be anywhere in the US or world. Not that you can’t in the guard, but you tend to stay in your state more frequently.
A useful commentary by Goldberg on Rather and Mapes, but definitely no scoop and certainly no “EXCLUSIVE”.
This information was out there in February 2004 in big headlines, like this:
“BUSH’S GUARD RECORD DEFENDED ; EX-AIR GUARD PILOT SAYS BUSH ASKED ABOUT VOLUNTEERING FOR COMBAT, WAS TURNED DOWN
Richmond Times – Dispatch; Feb 13, 2004; pg. B.5;” It has all the details and the person mentioned as the source was a fellow pilot in the Houston squadron.
Also, contrary to O’Reilly’s comment about a contradiction about Bush also signing a form that said Bush said he did not want to go to Vietnam, there was no such contradiction. See this article published a full week before the Rather/Mapes fiasco:
ANSWERING KERRY’S QUESTION; Washington Times, August 31, 2004, which explains the “contradiction” well:
“6. Why did Mr. Bush specifically request not to be sent overseas for duty?”
“A non-issue. The form that this canard references is AF Form 125, Application for Extended Active Duty (EAD). It is a required form for every Air Force officer’s personnel folder. However, it does not apply to reservists and guardsman unless and until ordered to extended active duty. Most guardsmen, like Lt. Bush and me, were told by personnel clerks to check off the “not volunteer” block because it was meaningless. We had to fill out the form to go to pilot training because that year was EAD, but the all training bases were in the United States. In the Guard, you are the property of that unit and state. You aren’t going anywhere except where your unit goes.”
Slime that they are, Rather and Mapes are less guilty about this oversight than O’Reilly and Goldberg. Rather and Mapes had an agenda, and deliberately avoided any research that would not advance their cause and studiously avoided contacting any fellow Guard pilots who would squelch the story in a sentence.
But O’Reilly, with all his budget and research assistants and his big megaphone seemingly avoided talking about this information that was out there up to six months earlier in major publications and in the extensive blogging based on these articles. It was the major story of the day, and O’Reilly was out to lunch. O’Reilly always imagined himself above the fray then and now and considers it more important to cover “body language” nonsense and interrupting every guest with his presumptuous brilliance rather than do real investigative journalism.
As for Bernie Goldberg – an “exclusive”? Apparently you did little research before you rushed to publish this old news as new news. A quick google would have saved you a lot of time. When you want to publish Part II, do some googling – or drop me a line. You have the email.
Goldberg’s purported scoop is that *Mapes was told* about Bush having volunteered for ‘Nam duty *before* CBS aired the defamatory reports that she produced. Did the 2004 article in the Richmond Times mention *that* fact?? If not, Global Cooler should apologize to Bernie Goldberg.
The Richmond Times article was six months before Mapes show. Mapes and the the researchers she used (David Hackworth, Roger Charles, Michael Smith) were all “told” about this fact along with the rest of the world by the Richmond Times and dozens of subsequent blogs referencing it in February 2004. Mapes did most of her work on this story in August 2004. As a journalist Goldberg should have at least done two minutes of googling before claiming his exclusive. In fact, he could even be accused of plagiarizing the story from reporter Peter Bacque of the Times. That’s where the apology should go.
Global Cooler hasn’t answered my simple yes/no question with a simple “yes” or “no,” but he answered obliquely by disclosing that the Richmond Times article was published before the show. Obviously, then, the correct answer to my question is NO, the Richmond Times article did not (and could not) report that Mapes was told of Bush’s voluntarism before CBS aired her defamatory reports. WHERE, THEN, IS YOUR APOLOGY TO MR. GOLDBERG, GLOBAL COOLER??
Note: The “Big Headlines” that the person above mentions appeared on page 5 of a news paper in a more conservative area but certainly not the front page. Did this story appear any where else? Can you find it in the New York Times? Can you find it in the LA Times? If it appeared in one obscure newspaper on page 5 that doesn’t mean that it was “OUT THERE”? Come on…
You suffer from the same disease that Goldberg afflicts on the MSM – unless it’s in the New York Times, Washington Post, or LA Times, it didn’t happen.
If that’s where Goldberg limits his research, he is guilty of the same narrowmindedness he accuses others of.
And the information also appeared in National Review.
The Richmond Times? Who Cares! The issue is about ethnical balance in reporting. The CBS investigation points out that crucial issues countering their report was left out and the question is why? The point is that a national broadcaster such as CBS has a responsibility to balance their reporting because in Minnesota we don’t get the Richmond times.
One of Bernie’s points was as follows:
“I made an online check and discovered that while a few websites noted the CBS finding, the story got no ink (that I could find) on the news pages of any big mainstream paper.”
Note that he was talking about mainstream papers of which NY Times and LA times are about as mainstream as it gets. They didn’t cover the story because they don’t care about reporting the whole truth. They have a liberal agenda and that’s all they care about. Wouldn’t you agree to that “Global Cooler”? And wouldn’t you agree that people ought to know about the liberal bias unless the truth embarrasses you?