Pigman Strikes Terror Against Jihad

[Bosch Fawstin]

It's one thing to worry about not going too far to the right or the left, quite another being in the middle so deep that one needs to equate unlikely scenarious from non-Muslim 'extremists' with actual, living, breathing, Muslim terrorists today. There is no balance here, the 20 most wanted terrorists in the world are Muslim. The majority of the over two dozen conflicts/wars in the world are between Muslims and their neighbors. The founder of Islam was the first Jihadist, sanctioning and engaging in the murder of non-Muslims. One cannot bring nuance and subtlety to an issue as black and white as this. Look at my last post and see what you come up with. When was the last non-Muslim terrorist attack that any of us can remember? When was the last time a non-Muslim terrorist flew a plane into a building, cut off a head, blew up a pizzeria. There is a desire among many of us to be 'fair and balanced regarding our response to Muslim terrorism, but there's NOTHING that comes close to it on earth Now. There is other evil than Muslim terrorism in the world today, but there is no greater evil that poses a greater threat to civilization. Stay on point, don't allow ANY reason to avoid THE threat. If I come off as particularly bugged, I am. People are being murdered Every Single Day in the name of Islam, and there are many among us who don't give a damn, and who seem far too preoccupied with finding evil anywhere but within Islam. We can all avoid Islam as much as we want, but we will all pay for not taking it seriously Now, and for not doing what had to be done on midnight on 9/11 in order to let the enemy know that another 9/11 would truly never happen again. In seven years, we've encouraged them to plan an even bigger attack, with impunity, all because those who presume to protect us are far more interested in protecting a religion whose bottom line mission, it's 'sub'-mission, is to force mankind to submit to its evil which they call good.

[politicaljarhead]

Alright dude. I am doing something and I am looking for "Evil Muslims." I am not trying to protect the terrorists or their version of their religion. Nor trying to say that there are just as equal of threats out there. All I am saying is that we can't generalize to such an extreme. The prisons are filled with blacks; does that mean that we have to say all blacks pose a threat to the crime rate? No. Please don't question my actions and views against terrorism or on how to keep America safe. I am on my FIFTH combat tour in a muslim country. I have seen Muslim extremists at their worst. I have also met at least 5 wonderful muslim people for every one terrorist. So maybe I have done the extensive reading and studying you have, but I have seen it with my own eyes, and can't bring myself to denounce the religion as an evil thing. I did say I agree with profiling Muslim travelers and suspected terrorists. I have no problem with that, just as I would not if every blonde hair blue eyed guy(me) had to be profiled because we were the general look of a terrorist.

[Bosch Fawstin]

My friend, I respect you and I thank you for defending our lives and freedom. But you having been in contact with non-terrorist Muslims does not exonerate Islam, which fuels the terrorist Muslims. There is Islam and there are Individual Muslims, two different things. A Muslim can be as devout in his practice of Islam as Mohammed, which logically leads him to a path where he acts out the violent edicts of the faith, or a Muslim can be as passive as can be, not a threat to others. But the silence of the Muslim world against their more devout brothers should give us all pause. When Muslims weren't celebrating the atrocity of 9/11, they were saying nothing. No doubt, there are individual Muslims who truly do hate what the jihadists are doing, I have Muslim family members who do, but it's almost always the case that it's their ignorance of their own faith which keeps them from citing it as the root cause of the Jihad, which it is. In my experience, those who are most critical of Islam are the most versed in it, and those who are most willing to give Islam the benefit of the doubt are bringing into the equation their own benign ideas about religion, giving Islam an unearned status. Along with allowing a good human being who happens to be Muslim to define Islam, which he does not. Look no further than Mohammed, who literally killed Infidels. This to me is THE bottom line point. Nothing good can come from a man who decides that killing those in his way is the only way to spread his 'faith', nothing. Islam sanctions violence and murder, and that for me is enough to condemn its entire moral pretense, without my necessarily condemning all of the human beings who purport to follow Islam. That there is nothing within Islam to stay the hand of a Muslim who wants to kill an infidel is the killer fact for me. And no 'moderate' Muslim can argue otherwise. And since Mohammed's mythic conceit was that the Koran is the verbatim word of Allah, then the most slavish Muslims will end up planning and executing those orders. And to those who argue that it is an interpretation of Islam that's the problem, it sure is, Mohammed's interpretation. And since in Muslim lore, Mohammed is considered the perfect man, the perfect model for All of mankind, then lying, cheating, stealing, raping, and murdering are good things to do to infidels, by virtue of the fact that 'the perfect man' engaged in all of this evil. Not to mention his marrying a 6 year old who he deflowered when she was 9. You mean well, my friend, but your sympathy is misguided and you really should study Islam and Mohammed and Jihad before you think you know what you're dealing with. And in my experience, Muslims are willing to lie quite easily about the true meaning of Islam, at least those who know Islam, so asking a Muslim what Islam means is likely not going to get you the truth, as in a real sense, they've already submitted to Islam's version of all things.

[politicaljarhead]

Alright brother, you may be correct. I am sure I will learn more in Theology or something when I actually get to attend school and get out of these s bomb places.

Just so you know, I am not an Athiest; but I don't believe in religion. Religion seems to be the cause of almost all the serious atrocities committed in this world. I think I can worship God on my own terms. So maybe we have a small bit in common.

Hope your comic makes it big. It's what got this conversation going. So good luck with that. Let us know when it gets published.

[Bosch Fawstin]

Will do, and thanks.

[Bosch Fawstin]

They Say, We Say...
http://fawstin.blogspot.com/2008/11/they-saywe-say.html

[Media Rookie]

Good to see ya, Bosch!

[Bosch Fawstin]

Ditto, MR

[pubjohn47]

I'm a righty and in the reserves...and am not that big on this idea. Why? We really don't need to incite these guys anymore than they already are. They really are not against the west like everyone thinks...they are against people trying to force ideas down their throat (as they see it). They can and will turn almost everything around, like what you are proposing, to make it seem like the other side.

It will also continue to incite anti-Christian and anti-Jewish propaganda.

IMO, the less we can do to point out fallacies in their religion (of which, I know, there are many odd points and it has been bastardized a million times)...the better things may actually get. Heck, I was in Turkey earlier this year - a Muslim country - and had a wonderful time. The people were beyond pleasant and I had nothing untowards happen to me from the largely Muslim population. Bosnia - another largely Muslim country - was also very pleasant. In actuality, if I had to meet with locals, I always looked more forward to being around the Muslims than around the Serbs (Orthodox).

It is possible that Muslims can be 'tamed'...but it won't work if we all continue to press their buttons. I'm not saying be PC (because I hate that crap)...but fighting fire with fire isn't always the best thing.

But, good luck with whatever you do. It's ultimately your decision, but I'm just chiming in with my 2 cents.

I agree with you.

Islam is a religion in which almost 100% of muslims are peaceful, just as almost 100% of Jews and christians are peaceful.

Islam has teachings that are not as severe as the genocidal teachings in the Jewish Old Testament, but neither does it preach the love and tolerance that Jesus preached.

Anybody who is leaning towards a violent agenda, will use religion for his own selfish needs to stir up the crowd as Hitler did.

Muhammad, the prophet of Islam did not tolerate the treason of one tribe of Jews, but at the same time had peace treaties with other tribes of Jews and Christians.

muslims and christians and jews have lived in peace for centuries but at the same time there have been tensions and occasional violence from both sides.

As a practical matter, the west needs to dialog with muslims, co-opt all those who are reasonable, stay out of muslim countries militarily speaking ( which includes the banning of sales of military equipment to everybody in the middle east, including Israel ) and as a result, in the short run, Al-Qaeda and other militant muslim groups will be marginalized and become irrelevant in muslim societies

In order to ensure the complete peace between the middle east and the west, the 28 point peace plan should be implemented.

ref : http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/phpBB2/v ... 5199#75199

[pubjohn47]

I have Muslim family members who do, but it's almost always the case that it's their ignorance of their own faith which keeps them from citing it as the root cause of the Jihad, which it is. In my experience, those who are most critical of Islam are the most versed in it, and those who are most willing to give Islam the benefit of the doubt are bringing into the equation their own benign ideas about religion, giving Islam an unearned status. .

Muhammad the prophet of Islam did not tolerate one tribe of Jews for treason, but at the same time, had peace treaties with other tribes of Jews and Christians, paving way to centuries of peaceful co-existence between Jews, muslims and christians with the occasional violence between jews, christians and muslims.

Islam is not as extreme as the genocidal teachings in the Jewish Old Testament but neither does it preach the love and tolerance that Jesus preached.

Today, Islam's teaching on violence is not being followed by almost 100% of muslims, just as the genocidal teachings of the Jewish Old Testament is not being followed by almost 100% of Jews.

Almost 100% of muslims do not want to murder any Americans on American soil, just as almost 100% of jews and christians are peaceful and do not commit acts of terror against their neighbors.

Now for the 70 or so muslims who do want to murder Americans on American soil, 19 of them are already dead due to the 911 attacks and the balance of 51 are either running from US law enforcement, under the custody of the US rendition programs or marginalized by muslim society due to the fact that US troops are not in "holy" Saudi Arabia anymore

[Red]

I have a story I'd like to share with Bosch. It was written by Captain Doug Traversa, US Army, while in Kabul Afghanistan. Right now I'm in Bagram, which is 20 miles south of there.

Just when I think nothing will surprise me, Afghanistan throws me a curveball. Let me set the stage. Major Apple, Wali, and Hamid (our interpreters), and I were sitting in our office having a deep discussion about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Somehow the topic of gays serving in the military came up, and Major Apple and both think they will be able to openly serve in the military very soon. (I mention this to set the stage, not start a debate. Personally, it wouldn't bother me. If they want to come over and fight for their country, it's fine with me. Welcome.)

Once this topic came up, Wali asked why people were allowed to be openly gay in our country. We explained that in a free society, people are allowed to do pretty much whatever they please, as long as they are not hurting others, etc.

"But this is so revolting. A man would shame himself to do this."
"Wali," I asked, "what would happen to a man in Afghanistan if he openly declared he was gay?"
"That would never happen," replied Wali, acting as though that was as likely as the Pope to convert to Islam.
"I know. But let's just pretend. For instance, let's say a famous TV personality decided he wanted to try to change things here, so he announced on TV that he was gay."
Wali interrupted. "But that would never happen."
"Maybe it would. Just tell me what you think would happen."
"His family would kill him immediately," he said, without batting an eye. Remember, Wali represents moderate, Westernized Islam in Afghanistan.

"Why would you kill someone just for being gay?" I pressed.
"Because my religion says so." Again, as matter of fact as though he was explaining why a rock falls to the ground if you pick it up and then let it go.
"Let's suppose he escaped from his family. What would the government do? Would they arrest him?"
"Yes."
"And would they kill him?"
"Yes. This is an Islamic republic. Our religion says to."
"And if someone wanted to leave Islam and join another religion, they would be executed for that too, right?"
"Yes."

The sad thing is we could have been talking about football scores or the weather. He was not remotely embarrassed or hesitant in any of this. Hamid, however, was very quiet the whole time. I wonder what was going through his head.

"Well, if you believe all this, why would you want to move to America? We allow people to switch religions if they wish or believe in nothing at all."
"Do you have people from different religions marry each other?" he asked
"Yes, all the time," replied Major Apple.
"What do they teach their children?"
"They usually teach them both religions and let them decide for themselves," said Major Apple.

Wali seemed a bit surprised by this. Steam was starting to come out of his ears.

"America is not like Afghanistan," I continued. "Our government does not tell us what to believe. We are free to believe whatever we wish. That is our greatness. We can say whatever we wish, as long as we aren't threatening to kill someone or violently overthrow the government. We can get on TV and say we think the government is awful, and no one will arrest us."

Major Apple gave a brief explanation of how our country was founded by people who wished to worship in their own way.

Once this was done, I asked again, "Do you think you could be happy in America? Muslims can leave the faith there, and no one will kill them."

That's OK. As long as I can worship my way, I don't mind what others do."


So there you have it, the incongruity of a man who thinks it is perfectly normal to execute gays and apostates in this country but doesn't think it's a big deal if he's living in the U. S. No matter what your views on homosexuality, I doubt any readers of "The Sandbox" want to execute gays (well, maybe some Taliban reading this trying to gather intel). Same thing with people who leave your particular faith. Would you kill them? (Hopefully that's a rhetorical question.) Yet I live with seemingly normal, pleasant, hardworking people who would think nothing of doing this. This is not an isolated incident either. Other Americans have heard the same thing from their interpreters.

Now take this mind-set, set temperature to high, and nuke for ten minutes, and you have some idea of the hatred and violence in the hearts of the men we are fighting against. Do you think diplomacy is going to work?

Do you think you can reason with them?

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Just a story I read that I can relate to. I'd like to add that I've been here for almost a year now, and I've not met one Afghani who wasn't fiercely Muslim. I mean carrying prayer rugs, praying five times a day, doesn't eat pork, Muslim. Not one. Ever. I myself haven't asked my interpreters those particular questions, but I've no doubt as to the validity of the story. Don't get me wrong. Most Afghani's are nice and hardworking people. I really have a heart for them. But I have no doubt that what this man says is true. It's hard to explain unless you've actually been here. Most Americans cannot fathom their mindset. I know I didn't understand what these people were like before I lived here. It's just the way their life is. Intollerance is normal to them. Here even the best of people are intollerant. I don't know how else to describe it.

I thank you for your contributions Bosch. I really admire your work. I'm not a big comic fan, but yours I would consider.

Thank you.



Air Assault,

Red

[Bosch Fawstin]

Red,

Thanks for the compliments, for that story, and for your setting things straight, esp. after pubjohn 47's claptrap. We've got a war on and it looks like you and your brothers are really the only ones fighting it, to our everlasting shame. You have my absolute respect and even though it seems like many of us don't support the troops, you have always, ALWAYS, supported us, and there are those who fully understand that, along with fully understanding that without you, we're nothing.

[pubjohn47]

Here even the best of people are intollerant. I don't know how else to describe it.

I thank you for your contributions Bosch. I really admire your work. I'm not a big comic fan, but yours I would consider.

Thank you.



Air Assault,

Red

You mean like how many Americans were intolerant of blacks and American natives at one time ?

People might be intolerant, but does that give them any motivation to come all the way to America to kill Americans ? off course not

Osama Bin Laden is unique in the sense that he saw American foreign policy as a threat to his religion, especially when American foreign policy ever since the 50s had caused suffering in the middle east culminating with the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia.

Al-Qaeda do not want to destroy us or our way of life;

but they do want the US government to change its foreign policies in muslim countries that has contributed to much suffering ever since the US government was involved in the middle east with the overthrow of a democratically elected Mossadegh of Iran in the 50s, arming Israel since the 60s leading to palestinian children being collaterally killed by US weapons, the US siding with "christian" Lebanese terrorists in the 80s, the backing of cruel dictators in the middle east, the cruel sanctions in the 90s leading to the premature deaths of hundreds of thousands of children in Iraq etc etc etc

[pubjohn47]

Red,

Thanks for the compliments, for that story, and for your setting things straight, esp. after pubjohn 47's claptrap. We've got a war on and it looks like you and your brothers are really the only ones fighting it, to our everlasting shame. You have my absolute respect and even though it seems like many of us don't support the troops, you have always, ALWAYS, supported us, and there are those who fully understand that, along with fully understanding that without you, we're nothing.

War is never the answer because war is like taking a sledgehammer to a delicate surgery.

If problems do occur in any part of the world, an intelligent non-military covert operation can take care of any problem and prevent dangerous people like Hitler from ever acquiring power

[TerryAnne]

Red - a lot of that story is poppycock. I believe the interpreters were just saying that as it is what they are supposed to say. Take a look at how the guys behave in the field (meaning the enemies...especially when there are barn animals around). It reminds me of when 20/20 went into North Korea and there were all of the people they interviewed who 'loved' their country. It was WAY obvious that they were saying what they did, because if they said otherwise, it would be hell to pay for them or their families.