The Hard Right’s Admiration for a Very Stupid Man

BundyIdeologically pure conservatives apparently are so desperate for heroes, so fed up with what they call the overreach of the federal government, that they have turned Nevada cattle rancher Cliven Bundy into an American folk hero – a modern day no-nonsense cowboy who takes no guff; a 2014 version of John Wayne.

Bundy, for those of you who don’t watch Fox News, refuses to pay grazing fees to the federal government because he believes it’s not the federal government’s land.  Never mind that it is.  Facts don’t mean much to Cliven Bundy.

I mention Fox News because many on the network haven’t covered the Bundy story so much as they have been cheerleaders for Bundy.  Interviews aren’t journalistic interrogations; they’re valentines wrapped up in butterfly kisses.

After a confrontation with Bureau of Land Management agents – the agents at one point used a Taser on one of Bundy’s sons – supporters of Bundy showed up from all over the place — more than a few with guns.  At least one that I saw on Fox had a semi-automatic weapon.  Some also wore bulletproof vests.

The hard right loved it.

But here’s a question for all the true-blue right-wingers whose paranoia over federal “overreach” has consumed them:

What if the lefties from Occupy Wall Street held a rally … and the police moved in to arrest them for some violation … and supporters of the left-wingers showed up with guns and bulletproof vests?  How would true-blue conservatives feel about that?

We know how they would feel.  They’d start by calling them commies.  Then they’d say the police should arrest all of them.  They’d say the law is the law and since they broke the law they should all be tossed in jail.

But Bundy also broke the law.  Several federal courts have ruled that he owes the government money.  Apparently the right-wing law and order crowd only cares about law and order when liberals are breaking the rules.

There are legitimate arguments to be made about whether the federal government should control so much land in the West.  And it’s understandable that westerners – especially ranchers who live off the land – would be especially concerned.  But Bundy isn’t the final word about what’s right and wrong.  And neither are his gun-toting supporters.

And here’s something else for the rancher’s loyal fans to consider.  The New York Times has just run a story about the saga of Cliven Bundy and about how he regularly holds court with reporters.  He clearly loves the attention he’s getting.

Here’s some of what he recently told reporters about a drive past a public housing project in North Las Vegas:

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro … and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

So, my all ideologically pure, hard right, friends, that is your hero — a man who in 2014 wonders if “Negroes” would be better off as slaves.

No amount of frustration with so-called RINO’s – moderate Republicans – can justify such admiration for such a stupid man.

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  • potemkin_village_usa

    CLASSICAL LIBERALS BELIEVE IN STATES’ RIGHTS
    ___Classical Liberals ran as far away from Cliven Bundy when they read his remarks on race. The segregationist white supremacist militia groups stuck around.
    ___Andrew Breitbart challenged the ‘Authoritarian-Progressivist-Left’ to show evidence that the Tea-Party was racist with a $100 Thousand bounty for such evidence. No one has as of yet come forward to claim this reward. The Tea-Party is largely a group of ‘Classical Liberals’ who do not believe in the initiation of violence; believe in the core belief that “all men are created equal” and are afforded “equal protection under the law ” for all Americans regardless of ethnicity.
    __Classical Liberals fear the encroacment of an ever expanding federal government which is why they believe in states’ rights; smaller government; smaller taxes; a balanced budget amendment; and local control over governance.
    ___Segregationists, on the other hand, want to bring back the oligarchy of priveleged whites and preserve the separation of Blacks from their society. Jim Crow laws, the separate but equal dictum as ruled in the Supreme Court case Plessy v. Fergusen ( 1894), anti-miscegenation laws along with separate accommodations in lodging, jobs, and transportation, are the driving reasons for a states’ rights politics. The states’ rights position held by ‘Classical Liberals’ like the ‘Tea-Party’ have nothing in common with segregationists like the KKK or any white supremacist group; in fact their basic politics are worlds apart where ‘Classical Liberals believe that a government that governs least, governs best, however, the segregationists believe in a government by traditional oligarchic organs of privelege.
    __You will not find Tea-Party advocates any where near Cliven Bundy’s ranch. He poisons the well of pure Classical-Liberalism as espoused by the Tea-Party.

  • Chris Matthewson

    A week ago, I posted this here: “Bundy and his demented followers are very much like Fox News and many of its demented viewers: Bullies who distort facts under the false guise of patriotism. Now, count the number of racist, stupid, paranoiac and anti-Obama comments made herein in response to Bernie’s obvious observation!”

    The count so far, while not final, has exceeded even my expectations.

    • Keith Jones

      I’m a conservative and I always questioned Bundy’s status as a “spokesman” for conservative causes, although I disagreed with the amount of government force on display. But you go ahead and feel superior and lump all of us in together. I got here because I linked to Bernie’s newsletter. I don’t watch Fox News… or the idiots at MSNBC and CNN for that matter.

      • Chris Matthewson

        Then you have a life.

        If you watch neither Fox News, nor the “idiots” at MSNBC and CNN, then you must get your information from more reputable and less biased sources. If so, then you cannot be lumped together with those who have and will make “racist, stupid, paranoiac and anti-Obama comments herein.”

        • Keith Jones

          Nothing wrong with legitimate Obama criticism. But many on the left (Oprah, Matthews, etc.) love to label ALL criticism of Obama as racially motivated. That’s meant to shut down argument and that’s BS.

          • Chris Matthewson

            I agree. But just because those who say that ALL anti-Obama criticism is racially motivated are full of bull excrement doesn’t mean that SOME of those anti-Obama commentators aren’t so motivated. (Sorry for the double negative.)

  • AbdullahtheButcher

    Yes, there’s certainly legitimate arguments about whether the Federal Government should control so much land in the West. There’s also legitimate arguments about what kind of tactics they should have used. If the Feds were unhappy about Bundy, they should have perhaps put a lien out on his stuff, not send in the SWAT to seize his cattle. Such heavy handed methods such make EVERYONE feel uncomfortable, regardless of their personal political inclinations.

  • LHS

    Bernie, get hold of yourself, man. You haven’t just flown off the handle – to the utter delight of the left – you’ve lost your handle. Listen to all the interviews and the followups – like Ben Ferguson’s for instance. Bundy explains himself as well as he can and no, he’s not a slick snake oil salesman like most of our lying, thieving, agenda-driven politicians. Good Lord.

  • David Gorton

    Bernie, how dare you call that moron a “stupid man”! In this case stupid implies “critical thinking errors”; not paying fees, refusing to recognize his, and the BLM/Governments rights & responsibilities, etc. Mr. Bundy’s devoid of “critical thinking”!! His comments are moronic!!!

  • buckrodgers

    How can the words of a 67 year old man cause commentators to run for cover,destroy the Republican Party and bring down a network, even Bill O’Riely had to bring a black man on his show so he can say he’s not a racist, how did a man fighting big government turn into a issue of race and who really cares, the truth is white liberals could care less about African Americans, we all know they like to pretend their the self appointed saviors of minorities,especially African Americans,while white Democrats want to make sure they show up on election day, every single day a white liberal is calling another white American a racist, lecturing Conservative African Americans on what it’s like to grow up black in America, or calling Latinos who disagree with them white Hispanics, it doesn’t seem to matter if they used their white skin to get their jobs, bypassing more qualified minorities, or if they choose to live in a predominantly white neighborhood, or put on a white hood and burn crosses on the lawns of African Americans who want to move into their neighborhood, using race to hurt another American is worse than the words that people are criticized for daring to say, especially when the person making the accusation is also a racist.

    • Tim Bertram Black

      Uhh… Cliven isn’t fighting big government–he just doesn’t like paying his bills. I can understand that thinking — but I would never threaten to kill fellow Americans just to avoid paying what I owe.
      It is scary because Fox and Cliven have enlisted the help of every crackpot nutjob with a gun to come out and help him.
      Maybe we could take up a collection for the guy? Help him out. I’m sure the feds would allow him to pay over many years — or possibly from his estate when he dies. There is no need to kill fellow Americans. IMHO

  • Ark

    Reading these comments are pathetic. Some people will rationalize their support of anyone, just as long as they agree with them politically.

    If you think Cliven Bundy is worthy of support and attention, then you are part of the problem.

    • Ryan Nichols

      It’s called looking at things objectively, with an open mind and a understanding of culture. Let me help you be objective, if that’s possible for you. Put first in your mind that Bundy is not racist. Or better yet, Bundy is black. . Then read his full comments. Then ask yourself, if a black man said this, would he be considered a self hating black man? Would the black community be outraged or would they agree? My conclusion is what matters here the most is the color of the man making the statement, more than the statement. You have to ask yourself is it possible those words could be said by a person who’s not racist. Instead of letting the media paint people for you.

      • Observer

        People will see bigotry and racism wherever they choose to see it.

      • Ark

        I did and you are trying way to hard to rationalize your support for Bundy
        And why are you talking about racism when I have not? You want to support a guy who makes a stink so he doesnt have to pay taxes, then so be it. His whole attention-seeking crusade is pathetic.

        Maybe read my comments before you generalize.

  • loupgarous

    Bernie, your attempt at a reductio ad absurdum, “What if the lefties from Occupy Wall Street held a rally … and the police moved in to arrest them for some violation … and supporters of the left-wingers showed up with guns and bulletproof vests? How would true-blue conservatives feel about that?” makes Cliven Bundy and his supporters’ points admirably for them.

    As it happens, Cliven Bundy hasn’t gotten any of the Mulligans that Occupy has throughout the country. Occupy Oakland was MUCH more violent than Bundy and his supporters were, and where’s your outrage there?

    I don’t think Cliven Bundy’s particularly bright, either – but neither is the Obama administration. They brought in a paramilitary force to enforce a Federal claim best treated as a tort in order to clear the way for a business deal between the Senate Majority Leader, his son and the Chinese to turn the BLM land into a solar power farm, for the enrichment of Reid and Son.

    That this ham-handed power play aroused the anger of Bundy’s neighbors and people across the country is a good sign, even if it narrowly avoided becoming a bloodbath. It shows that Americans exist who cannot be bullied by the most corrupt presidential administration in American history.

  • Disappointed in Humanity

    I give up. I just plain give up. Anybody who thought the internet was the end-all solution to democracy, was wrong. It isn’t the means of exchanging ideas and influencing opinion. It is the means of having useless exchanges between a bunch of self-important know-it-alls who end up hating each other, and calling people stupid and racist because they can’t agree about anything. And nobody even knows who the hell they’re talking to. Play on, children. You can waste your time if you want to, but I’m out of here.

    • sjangers

      The effectiveness of any tool is limited by the capacity of those using it. Forums like this one could be a great opportunity for people to exchange points of view, understand each other better, and perhaps come up with solutions for some of the problems that plague us. But instead of engaging in thought-provoking exchanges, most of us start from a rigid perspective and see a forum like this as an opportunity for marketing- in the most pejorative sense of the word.

  • Brian Fr Langley

    Coming from stage left, now queue the town criers of racism! How about a few non racist facts. Just in the past few weeks, stats on abortions have been released in several large jurisdictions. Clear as a bell, are the utterly racist consequences of the leftist (liberal) ascendancy in America. A full 50% of all babies being aborted in these jurisdictions are black. Yet blacks only account for 12-15% of the population. Worse, are the numbers of black babies abandoned by their fathers. Today some 73% of all black babies born, will be born to single parent mothers. Unhappily whether white, black, or hispanic, all Americans on are the same trajectory. (meaning race is not relevant to these issues). The sad, simple truth is, fatherlessness begets fatherlessness, It begets poverty, lower education rates, higher incarceration rates and fatherless girls are far more likely to get pregnant earlier and (abort or) repeat the cycle. That is, in the black community (and soon to engulf the rest) a disaster of unimaginable epic proportions is occuring before our very eyes. Some 85-87% of a communities total renewal, is either being aborted by their mothers, or abandoned by their fathers. That Mr. Bundy should inarticulately, stupidly, and with out right bigotry, link this modern tragedy, to the execrable institution of slavery, is beyond unfortunate. Now rather than questioning the real racist consequences of the ascending left, we’re left wagging our fingers at a situation of little account. Coming from stage left, queue the town criers of racism.

    • La Sombra

      Exit stage right.

    • legal eagle

      So you’re now looking out for the colored folks? How white of you?

      • Brian Fr Langley

        Skin color is irrelevant to fatherlessness. And your reply is simply to feed racist divisions to maintain leftist (liberal) electoral success. How Marxist of you?

        • legal eagle

          Low income and poverty are highly relevant… Why do you think there are so many unwed mothers….because many black teenagers believe a child is their way out of poverty…Don’t you think black teenagers have access to birth control?

          • Brian Fr Langley

            That is an utterly racist statement. What, are you saying, they are that stupid? How would a child lift a black boy or girl out of poverty? And why then, do so many black babies get aborted if their parents see them as their ticket out of poverty? As for those keeping their babies, they know they’ll have another mouth to feed, they won’t get to finish school, (which is the highest correlation of future poverty) and they’ll condemn themselves to the bottom of socio-economic America. I suspect that a young single black girl, on finding herself pregnant, doesn’t dance a little jig, singing like she just won a lottery?

          • legal eagle

            I am relating my personal experience both from legal work I have done as well as conversations with kids in that predicament….perhaps you should go discuss it with a pregnant teenager rather than telling me what you “suspect”? Perhaps some first hand knowledge would get you off your soap-box?

          • Brian Fr Langley

            What a total load of codswallop. Just happy piles of young, single, pregnant black girls, sharing with you their joy at winning life’s lottery out of poverty, by getting themselves pregnant. Please, even you could do better than that?

          • legal eagle

            So you disagree with me? Based upon what, your extensive experience in the black neighborhoods of Atlanta? Stay willfully ignorant.

          • Brian Fr Langley

            No, I disagree with you because your argument is idiotic and racist. First, the idea of any number of young black girls confiding their joy at unwed pregnancy to a “legal eagle” is preposterous. And 2nd, even if they did, your comments would still be a gross stereotypical generalization, which is, well, racist.

          • legal eagle

            Did I use the term “joy”?

          • veeper

            Legal work?

            Ha!!……that’s funny…..

          • legal eagle

            It’s called helping people…ever try it?

          • veeper

            now you call helping people “legal work”…..

            that means I’m a Lawyer also……I do “legal work”…..

          • Jeff Webb

            >>I am relating my personal experience both from legal work I have done as well as conversations with kids in that predicament…<<

            Perfectly sound reasoning–looks like a slight misinterpretation on Brian's part.
            Doesn't change the fact you ARE a racist, though.

          • legal eagle

            Doesn’t change the fact that your a willfully ignorant fool……crawl back into world of make believe..

          • Jeff Webb

            Free advice for you, Kleagle: if you’re going to call someone ignorant, don’t be a liberal; if you’re going to call someone a fool, don’t use “your” when the correct word is “you’re.”

          • legal eagle

            Are you from the South? Sounds like you have limited experience dealing with anyone who doesn’t fit your pre conceived notions of people…

          • Brian Fr Langley

            Come now legal, don’t double down, admit your racist comment, apologize and move on. Recent abortion statistics from the State of Georgia show some 50% of all babies aborted in Georgia (is that far enough south for you) are black. This is definitive proof, that young black unwed mothers, aren’t popping champagne corks and celebrating their rise from poverty, when they learn they’re pregnant.

          • legal eagle

            Georgia is sure representative of America?

          • Brian Fr Langley

            You’re the one who referenced the South and Atlanta, as pertaining to your personal experience? It doesn’t matter what area of America you reference, your comment was bigoted and racist, then you doubled down a singularly foolish argument on being called out.

          • legal eagle

            I don’t make bigoted comments but if that is your opinion you are welcome to it….I understand that people like yourself need lower income minorities to make them forget that they are getting screwed by the Republican Party.
            Republicans have been playing that card since 1964…Fox News just reinforces certain voter’s ignorance…

          • La Sombra

            LE: AHHHH, but you have and DO make bigoted comments, just as Bundy has. The similarities are very transparent. What? Are you saying that you’ve been misinterpreted? Well, is it possible that Bundy has? The only difference is that you have been educated in the game of semantics, whereas Bundy has not.

          • legal eagle

            Call me whatever you’d like….A basis defense tactic is to attack the messenger….What’s next, a defense of Donald Sterling?

          • La Sombra

            I’m not calling you anything, LE. Your own use of the ‘attack the messenger’ defense tactic is duly noted, tho.

          • Integrity

            Would you defend him? I hear that he has a lot of money. QED

          • Integrity

            I heard rumors that he might have the wrong ideology, so the talking points email that I received from George Bush says we can’t defend him. I know you are shocked as much as I am that a Democrat could possibly be a racist. The late Senator Byrd would be flabbergasted! You could knock me over with a feather right now. QED

          • legal eagle

            The Dixiecrats for the most part changed sides and became Republicans….It was about geography not political party…Many Southern politicians are still fighting the same issues as their forefathers did after the Civil War.

          • Jeff Webb

            >>What’s next, a defense of Donald Sterling?<<

            What gives you the impression LS would defend a Democrat?

          • legal eagle

            What bigoted statements have I made? Want to cite some examples?

          • La Sombra

            As Cliven Bundy has learned, broad generalizations can be and have been construed as racist and/or bigoted statements regardless of articulation. You say you want examples? How about these?:

            ‘ . . . many black teenagers believe a child is their way out of poverty . . . ‘

            ‘Are you from the South?’

            ‘I should have differentiated between Dixiecrats . . . ‘

            And how about this edited version?:

            ‘So you’re now looking out for the [edited by moderator to remove racist term] folks? How white of you?’

            Lacing it all up with a heavy dose of vitriol makes these statements much more caustic, but of course, you’ll have a plausible reason and/or explanation for it all. Bundy doesn’t.

          • legal eagle

            ‘ . . . many black teenagers believe a child is their way out of poverty

            And this according to you, is racist? Want me to cite the studies I am referring to? What is racist about this

          • La Sombra

            No need to. You asked for examples, I complied.

          • legal eagle

            Stay ignorant…it’s more blissful…

          • La Sombra

            Why am I not surprised at your ‘attack the messenger’ defense tactic?

            Mother of mercy! Are your really a ‘legal eagle’?

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Are you serious? Legal, you make bigoted comments all the time. It’s become one of your trademarks here.

            Do you think that simply being a liberal somehow gives you a license to spew bigotry without it “actually” being bigotry?

            Amazing.

          • sjangers

            “Do you think that simply being a liberal somehow gives you a license to spew bigotry without it “actually” being bigotry?”

            You needed to ask this question?

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Good point.

          • sjangers

            “Republicans have been playing that card since 1964…”

            Could we have some examples please, Eagle. Back in 1964 I think it was the Democrats doing the race baiting and keeping that social tension alive.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            The Republicans have been playing the race card?

            Now I’ve heard it all.

          • legal eagle

            I should have differentiated between Dixiecrats and Democratic party policy pre-1964.

            The Republican strategy to turn the “solid South” Republican began to take shape in 1964 after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act. The initial “event” was the nomination of Barry Goldwater, who had voted against the CRA. This, in many historians, opinion, was the beginning of the strategy to flip the Dixiecrat voters to the Republican side of the aisle.

            Two excellent books I would refer you to on the subject are “The Emerging Republican Majority” by Kevin Phillips and “Nixonland” by Richard Perlstein.

          • sjangers

            I didn’t think this became a deliberate part of Republican strategy until at least 1968, and really more of an opportunistic thing at that time. Southern voters felt betrayed by the Democrats and shifted to the conservative Goldwater in 1964 absent any strategic intent by the Republicans. Nixon initiated the strategy of wooing disaffected southern voters in ’68 and more deliberately in ’72. The Carter campaign stalled the momentum of southern conservatives away from the Democrats in ’76, and then the Reagan campaign in ’80 kind of rolled the so-called Southern strategy together with his general appeal to conservative, or blue collar, Democrats and really solidified that demographic in Republican ranks.

          • legal eagle

            I think we agree on the basics….I also think that with the Southern vote and Southern elected officials comes some subtle race baiting as best exemplified by Roger Ailes’ Willie Horton ad in 1988…

          • sjangers

            We do agree on the basics. You seem to believe the strategy was more deliberate than I do, and the pursuit of the strategy more malevolent. I never saw the Willie Horton ad as a deliberate attempt to fan racist fears, believing that Dukakis would have been attacked for the Horton story whether the man had been white or black, but I’m sure that your perspective and mine are both at least partially the results of our respective biases.

          • legal eagle

            Bush was roundly criticized as was his campaign manager, Lee Atwater, for running the Willie Horton ad.

            http://americablog.com/2012/11/audio-of-infamous-lee-atwater-interview-its-a-matter-of-how-abstract-you-handle-the-race-thing.html

            Atwater apologized to Dukakis for the ad before he died..

          • sjangers

            Of course. I remember the ad quite well. I was about as involved as I’ve ever been in politics in 1988. I vaguely remember that Atwater made some sort of peace with Dukakis over the campaign. I don’t recall ever hearing that he’d acknowledged a deliberate appeal to racism. And I’m afraid I’m not getting anywhere with the link you provided. Although, from glancing at some of the other blog topics at the site, I sure hope that they have unedited audio or video of the words straight from Atwater’s mouth. Otherwise I wouldn’t have much confidence in anything this site provided. There’s more than a slant there. I think they take off on a perpendicular course from a moderate perspective.

          • sjangers

            Okay. I finally managed to link up to that blog- and God knows what you’ve managed to infect my computer with by getting me to that site!- and I’ve listened to the audio clip. I really don’t find much there to support your claim. Atwater says in 1981 that race is becoming a very abstract part of the southern strategy. He acknowledges that there might be some very remote resonance with racist voters, but that isn’t the object of political advertising at all. He’s also quoted in the accompanying blog as saying that he’s not racist and that the Willie Horton ads weren’t directed at racist sentiment. So while Atwater did attempt to make peace with Dukakis before his death, primarily for some mean-spirited references he made to the man and for the very aggressive way he ran the campaign against him (colorfully claiming that he would make Willie Horton Dukakis’ running mate in the minds of American voters), he never suggests that the Willie Horton ad was an appeal to racism.

          • sjangers

            I’ve done a little more research and have found the full Atwater audio from 1981. Interestingly enough, his analysis of southern politics is very much in line with my assessment of the evolution of the Republican Southern strategy. Every now and again, when conversing with you, you manage to get me wondering whether or not I might be losing my mind. It’s nice to find a little evidence that my recollection of these events is generally pretty accurate.

          • Brian Fr Langley

            The unhappy truth is, you’ve made a highly generalized, stereotypical, and negative reference, on the behavior of fellow human beings, based only on non definitive externalities. Like their age, their gender, and especially their skin color. That my friend is bigotry, and bigotry writ large at that.

          • legal eagle

            Perhaps you might consider the following study?

            http://www.urban.org/pubs/khk/summary.html

          • Ryan Nichols

            So this is all the evidence needed. You’re just a spiteful, intolorent, bigoted, hateful person. Oh and extremely hypocritical.

          • Jeff Webb

            >>I don’t make bigoted comments<<

            Of course you don't–you just make ignorant, racist, prejudiced comments.

          • Ryan Nichols

            Every state represents America.

          • loupgarous

            And THAT sounds like projection of your own demeanor and commentary onto others.

          • Ryan Nichols

            Lol. You’re so full of it. Sounds like you have preconceived notions yourself.

          • Integrity

            Sadly, there are many forms of racism. My opinion is that the condescension type does far more damage than the other. Good intentions or not. QED

          • Brian Fr Langley

            Racism, is by definition condescension. Whether overtly or not. Notwithstanding intentions, good, bad, or otherwise.

          • legal eagle

            I’m not sure what your opinion is based upon nor do I know what “condescension type” of racism actually means in practice….Republicans talk a good game but their policies aim to keep lower income and lower class Americans from any upward mobility….

          • Jeff Webb

            >>Republicans talk a good game but their policies aim to keep lower income and lower class Americans from any upward mobility….<<

            Good grief, your projection is getting worse.

          • wally12

            To Legal Eagle: Jeff Webb has it right and most liberals know it but will not admit it. They claim to be for the poor and minorities while they accuse conservatives of not caring. That is a complete lie but they do it anyway since that is what gets them votes from the uninformed. Their policies of throwing money at the problem of the poor and unemployment have not not been successful and yet when they fail their answer is to throw more money at the problem. The poor do not get upward mobility by giving them a handout. Sure, the conservatives believe in giving handouts they just know that is only a stop gap measure to keep the person from starving and somewhat solvent until a job comes along. The conservatives believe that jobs are the path to self success along with an education. Their policy is to promote parent involvement and to local involvement in education and to keep the federal government out of the way.

          • legal eagle

            Your talking about clichés, not policies. Conservatives believe that a “job” will lift one out of poverty…Wal-Mart proves otherwise….Conservatives opposition to minimum wage and unions says it all….

          • wally12

            You don’t know what you are talking about. Walmart pays a wage that is competitive as do most fast food restaurants. Supply, demand and competition are the controlling factors that determines the wage. When the supply of workers is low, companies raise their pay. When there is an excess of workers, companies are in a better position to reduce pay to those who want a job. When there is no competition for a product, a company has an option to pay more but that doesn’t mean they will since it is an option. When there is abundant competition for a product, companies are force to cut expenses where ever they can to stay in business and that can include reducing wages/pay. Henry Ford proved that when there isn’t excessive competition for the product, he increased pay for two reasons to get qualified workers and to retain them once trained. He also was innovative in installing an assembly line to make the cost of his automobile cheaper to assure higher sales. The new oil fields in Dakota shows that wages go up as the availability of workers who are willing to move there is not high enough to keep up with the demand for workers. Many workers in these oil fields make $100,000 per year.
            If a higher minimum wage is enacted, a few things will occur. Fast food restaurants will increase their price. A few may decide to install more automation that will reduce their labor costs. Thus, rather than increasing jobs, there will be more unemployed. Unions and all other higher wage earners will demand higher wages since they will compare their worth to the minimum wage worker. When these wage earners receive a higher wage, the companies will do what the minimum wage companies did. They will reduce employees by automating and/or outsourcing work to foreign companies to stay competitive. In other words, the process is progressive that leads to a country that is less competitive or one that has higher unemployment. That would be another hit on an economy at the time the country can not afford it.
            What lifts people out of poverty is jobs with a booming economy. abundant jobs lift the country out of the recession and provide upward mobility to nearly everyone.
            If Obama really had a policy to create jobs, he would have gone all out on making the country energy independent and the least cost producer of energy in the world. There is no good reason that gas couldn’t be $1 to $2 less per gallon. At $2 per gas less than existing, the total stimulus to the economy would be $387 billion per year. It would have been created using only “private funding” and not “governmental/tax payer” funding. We have witnessed that the government stimulus didn’t work. However, there is no doubt that a stimulus with low cost energy paid by private funding would work. That $387 billion would have resulted in savings to all segments of the economy and help to make US products more competitive on the world market.

          • legal eagle

            Unlike yourself, I live in the real world, not the theoretical world…Supply and demand is nice theory but only a small part of the equation that effects wages in America today…

          • wally12

            No you live in a world of your own and the left. It has nothing to do with facts and logic. The theory you say I believe in has been verified for centuries. But hey, it is ok for you to live in the world as you see it.

          • legal eagle

            I guess the fact that Walmart pays it’s CEO $30 mil a year means the supply of CEOs is dwindling?…..LMFAO

          • wally12

            You make no sense at all. Baseball players ,football players, basketball players and CEO’s apply equally. Get real and come back when you have something relevant to say.

          • Ryan Nichols

            Unions worked out well for Detroit.

          • legal eagle

            Perhaps you can explain to me what unions have to do with Detroit? What union are you referring to?

          • Ryan Nichols

            Are you serious? That city is a labor union city. Mayor Coleman Young owned that city for more than twenty years. In the last four decades like one republican held any office in Detroit, and it was like to the city council or something. Young before becoming the mayor for 5 terms was a labor organizer. Union greed, bought and paid for crooked politicians, as well as civil unrest tore that city down.

          • legal eagle

            New York is a labor union city, Chicago is a union city, LA is a union city….Detroit has no more tax base which is the reason for it’s financial problems…

          • Ryan Nichols

            Chicago is in big trouble, maybe worse financial shape than Detroit. All of California is in financial trouble. And New York maybe coming. New York City is different. It isn’t ran by unions. New York City is the world trade center. But yet, even New York sees trouble in the future. Which is why they, a Democrat state. Is giving tax breaks to businesses to move there. Oh what’s that? Giving businesses tax breaks? And you thought that only the right does that.

            You can tell yourself whatever. It goes back to the unions and the leadership, which were union.

          • Ryan Nichols

            Almost forgot. New York City is looking at a 2 billion dollar deficit. Guess what the cities unions want? 7 billion dollars in back pay.lol

          • legal eagle

            Are deficits what you judge the quality of life? I live in Southern California..the sun is shining, the beaches are beautiful and my home is increasing in value….Don’t be bitter

          • Ryan Nichols

            What are you talking about? Where you live is irrelevant. It’s funny how your tune changes on the poor and government depending simply on the letter next to the name. I’ve lived 1 mile from the Santa Monica Pier. And I know not everyone in Southern California have a great quality of life just because the sun rises over the sand. If that was the case Capetown would be a wonderful place.

          • legal eagle

            Seems like you have a bias against unions? Is it because union members make more and get better benefits than you?
            Is it because you want union workers to make less money?

          • Jeff Webb

            Hey LE, time to stop lollygagging here and get back to the other thread, chop chop. You still haven’t posted all those examples of racism you claimed happen every day on Fox News.

            I mean, a fact-focused fella like you wouldn’t make an accusation without anything to back it up, right?

          • legal eagle

            How many examples do you want?

          • Jeff Webb

            This game again? I gave you a # the 1st day I replied. Go get it yourself.

            Examples, chop chop.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Translation: Hold on while I scroll through my emails and try to find one.

          • legal eagle

            Wouldn’t want those workers to make any money….Spoken like a true plutocrat……SCREW THE WORKERS….

          • Ryan Nichols

            Take all there money, who cares if the city crumbles.. Spoken like a true union boss.

            You’re head’s in that sand.

          • legal eagle

            Your economic theory plays well in China……Screw workers…..lets worry about the deficit

          • Ryan Nichols

            Lol. Do you even listen to yourself? Do you even understand how business works? You have to worry about the deficit. Not doing so screws the workers. You seem to be advocating that being fiscally responsible is screwing the workers. As if many unions are not greedy. As if anything the unions demand should be given, even if the city can’t afford it. After all just let the city fall into financial ruin and go bankrupt. Because anything less is screwing the workers.

          • legal eagle

            The government is not a “business”, nor is it profit driven….Disagree?

            As far as “deficits” go I think this says it all….

            “Cheney to Treasury: “Deficits don’t matter” Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill was told “deficits don’t matter” when he warned of a looming fiscal crisis.

            O’Neill, fired in a shakeup of Bush’s economic team in December 2002, raised objections to a new round of tax cuts and said the president balked at his more aggressive plan to combat corporate crime after a string of accounting scandals because of opposition from “the corporate crowd,” a key constituency.

            O’Neill said he tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits-expected to top $500 billion this fiscal year alone-posed a threat to the economy. Cheney cut him off. “You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don’t matter,” he said, according to excerpts. Cheney continued: “We won the midterms (congressional elections). This is our due.” A month later, Cheney told the Treasury secretary he was fired.

            The vice president’s office had no immediate comment, but John Snow, who replaced O’Neill, insisted that deficits “do matter” to the administration.”

          • Ryan Nichols

            So you agree with Chaney. And the Bush team. That’s your argument. Your argument is spending money you don’t have is perfectly fine, not just fine but good. And our government at all levels should not care how far we fall into debt, just keep spending. What’s the worst that could happen. . Just borrow some more right. .

            You don’t care about your country. All of America will become Detroit and you don’t see anything wrong with that. Well as long as it’s Democrats doing it right?

          • legal eagle

            You’re being a little simplistic…don’t you think? Borrowed money is what keeps the economy functioning…..Yes, borrowing money is perfectly fine….you should try it….LOL

          • Ryan Nichols

            You’re being naive. And I’m sure you’re quite full of it. Just like Obama, who was against mortgaging America, before he became President and decided it was fine. While America’s credit takes the hit and other nations kick our butt on the world market. And I’m quite sure you don’t run up your credit card and get another card to run up then get another card to run up meanwhile never paying for the principle. Living on money you don’t have isn’t ” fine” it’s stupid.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            >>Borrowed money is what keeps the economy functioning

            Equating an $18 trillion national debt to a simple bank loan? The unicorns and your fellow trolls applaud your residence in Fantasyland.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Legal’s never quite understood how the economy works. It’s kind of embarrassing, actually.

          • Ryan Nichols

            And yet the most liberal cities and states have the biggest poverty gaps. This the right is trying to keep black people poor is beyond ignorant. You think just because Democrats stand up at a podium and say they are going to bring black communities out of poverty means they are? No the left cares about one thing. Power. And they’ll lie and steal to keep it. Including making minorities believe that they are the only ones who care, and the right wants to tear families apart and kill your grandmother. What amazes me is people buy it. Remember that black women that was interviewed on the street after Obama won his first election. She said “I DON’T HAVE TO PAY MY CAR PAYMENT I DON’T HAVE TO PAY MY RENT” That’s what she thought she would get if Obama was elected. Because that’s the bullshit the left is selling.

          • legal eagle

            The fact that you remember one lady’s comments says something about your frame of reference…Perhaps you should get out and see the real world every so often and get beyond your seemingly narrow view of how Americans really live their lives…
            I have never heard anyone say they were going to lift minority and lower income communities “out of poverty”. I have heard Democrats offer programs which will allow those, who choose to use them to climb the socio-economic ladder…I have heard Republicans offer nothing except tax cuts to the wealthy..

          • Ryan Nichols

            The fact that you dismiss anything that doesn’t fit your narrative and the fact you haven’t heard anything but what the left tells you. Says everything about your frame of reference. Perhaps you’re the one who needs to expand your references.

          • legal eagle

            I assume a few things….I am older than you, have lived in more parts of the country than you have, have had more experiences with people in different socio-economic groups and I’m not sure what “the left” or “the right” tells me other than what I choose to listen to or read.
            That’s my frame of reference….I always believe it can and will expand.

          • Ryan Nichols

            What now is proved was once only imagined. The rat, the mouse, the fox, the rabbit, want the roots; the lion, the tiger, the horse, the elephant, watch the fruits. The system contains, the fountain … overflows.

          • Ryan Nichols

            A fool sees not the same tree that a wise human sees. 

          • legal eagle

            The quote I try to abide by is ” A fool learns from experience, a wise man learns from others”….Wish I had followed it more when I was younger….LOL

          • Ryan Nichols

            To me that would mean that you only follow others. And do not experience success and failure for yourself. If it weren’t for the fool who would you learn from?

          • legal eagle

            It’s about seeking advice rather than making poor decisions based upon gut feelings..

          • Sallie

            You guys need to go easy on the testosterone.

          • Sallie

            We are not sure Democrats care. But we are sure Republicans don’t.

          • veeper

            having babies as a family business has nothing to do with poverty….

            it has to do with being lazy and stupid…..

            opting to be a government Ho……

          • legal eagle

            as opposed to a corporate ho?

          • veeper

            as opposed to being a productive member of society instead of running from one plantation to another plantation…..

          • Ryan Nichols

            If course they do. Do you think there’s a a color requirement to by condoms?

          • Sallie

            “Many black teenagers believe a child is their way out of poverty” or you do? I’m sick and tired of right-wing people perpetuating that myth. Like all myths, it is based on ignorance. The US government does not support anybody, at least not in a way that can be looked at as a desirable or viable option. Go find out what a single parent with no income can get and for how long and then come back here and let us know.

        • Ron F

          If skin color is irrelevant, why were you commenting on number of babies abandoned by blacks?

          • Brian Fr Langley

            Since it’s fatherlessness that begets fatherlessness, the communities that have the longer experience will suffer the highest fatherlessness. Since the black community is America’s largest visible minority, they became the first victims (in the truest sense) of America’s turn to liberal, nanny state, policies. Policies of which specifically and explicitly penalized fathered families and rewarded fatherless ones. Families with single mothers could get more welfare, better housing, live in more urban areas, all the while qualifying for better education and more subsidies. As to why I was commenting on the black community, 1. Because the stats are available, and 2. because they are only a decade or two ahead of the Hispanic community, who are only a decade or two ahead of the white community. The trajectory of the nanny state is clear as a bell. Vast numbers of unmarried women, giving birth to vast numbers of fatherless children, who will need to rely on the state for support. A veritable Democrat voting “liberal” Eden, coming to a neighborhood near you.

          • Sallie

            Oh, please, as a single parent to a fatherless special needs child, I want to know how to get that generous government support that you so criticize. Do you even know what you’re talking about? Where are the better housing, the better education and the subsidies? Do you really think $200 in food stamps is an incentive to procreate fatherless children? I think you need to educate yourself. You are wrong!

  • notalib

    The follow joke, sent to me by a life long friend, pretty much sums up liberals, liberalism and Democrats. This is for those who trolled over from trashy websites:

    :
    RV: The Dog!

    IT HIT ME LIKE A TON OF BRICKS!!…

    I Just Realized Something:

    My dog sleeps about 20 hours a day.

    He has his food prepared for him.

    His meals are provided at no cost to him.

    He visits the Dr. once a year for his checkup
    and again during the year, if any medical needs arise.

    For this he pays nothing, and nothing is
    required of him.

    He lives in a nice neighborhood in a house
    that is much larger than he needs, but he is not required to do any upkeep.

    If he makes a mess, someone else cleans it
    up.

    He has his choice of luxurious places to
    sleep.

    He receives these accommodations absolutely
    free.

    He is living like a king and has absolutely
    no expenses whatsoever.

    All of his costs are picked up by others who
    earn a living.

    I was just thinking about all this, and
    suddenly it hit me like a ton of bricks ~

    MY dog is a damn DEMOCRAT!!!

    • Tim Bertram Black

      Nice… suggestion: if you hate paying taxes so much and want to be a freeloader… do what Cliven does! Just don’t pay your bills to the government, then enlist all your nutjob friends to kill americans if they try to collect them!
      Problem solved! You can live your dream of living like your dog.

    • legal eagle

      Also probably a minority…

      • Jeff Webb

        >>Also probably a minority…<<

        Ever notice you're the only one who keeps ascribing poor character traits to minorities?

        At least you managed to not use any racist slurs, to your credit.

        • legal eagle

          How about the fact that your white and stupid?

          • Jeff Webb

            My white and stupid what?

          • loupgarous

            the present indicative of the word “to be,” second person, is “you are,” not “your”

        • legal eagle

          Ever notice you have no ability to understand sarcasm? Is that a subject they don’t teach in Iowa?

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            It’s not sarcasm. It’s you projecting your bigotry onto the people you don’t like.

          • Jeff Webb

            >>Ever notice you have no ability to understand sarcasm?<>Is that a subject they don’t teach in Iowa?<<

            What makes you think I went to school in Iowa? Or is it just you having the same problem with people's home states as you do with the word "you're"?

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            >>What makes you think I went to school in Iowa?

            Still waiting for the day when Legal will actually make a correct assumption about someone. Worst psychic ever.

      • notalib

        Would you explain what you mean by that comment? Forgive me as I’m far below your imagined intellect. Read a lot of your posts and you have a very high regard for yourself—maybe far higher than you deserve? Just a thought as your responses are mostly one sentence.

        • legal eagle

          Figure it out….. a little thinking will do you good…

          • veeper

            you either haven’t tried thinking or it hasn’t done you any good….

  • http://www.drhodges.org/ Rev. Dr. Ronald E. Hodges

    Careful….Bundy is fully out of closet and make no mistake Bundy has much love for African-Americans (black slaves), and just loves telling the world.

    Just wondering how Bundy feels the get “government ranch welfare” from free grazing rights for his cattle on Federal land over a decade without
    paying for this rights. Or is Bundy only concerned about welfare payments to people of color?

    While all other law abiding ranchers paid their fees to graze their cows on government land and did not steel from very same government, Bundy now quacks about giving “welfare to blacks” only to be exposed as biggest “welfare” queen of them all steeling thousands of dollars from the overnment in free grazing rights.

    Can you say big Bundy hypocrite or is it not hypocrisy when your a thieving cattle ranching? Now that the Fox News folks are backpedaling, seeking cover or other fashioning reports to back away from Bundy, one can only wonder who will attend the Bundy bash this Friday?

    No doubt there will be not shortage of like-minded Bundys’ in attendance to enjoy cows raised fat and free on government land.

    Just wondering….is Paula Deen cooking up all those fat government raised cows?

    • Hyperbolic Dumbass

      Not so subtle racism there yourself, Reverend Doctor. Seems to me he was talking about government policies that result in people (of all colors) needing government assistance. As for the grazing fees, when it is all over, it will be settled in a legal manner, whether it is to his liking or not. And, Reverend Doctor, the Paula Deen comment really was beneath you.

      • http://www.drhodges.org/ Rev. Dr. Ronald E. Hodges

        Dumb ass…thanks for your civil comments. We can agree to disagree and both still make our respective points.

        Yes, I took a little liberty with Paula Deen and the comments she made similar Bundy. But please keep this in mind like Bundy, Deen’s and many others similar comments were of their own doing.

        The liberty I have taken is pale by comparison to continued references to slavery of blacks to rally the troops to whatever cause, politic or ideological bent that are likewise beneath these continued comments.

        Thanks.

        • Hyperbolic Dumbass

          One of the reasons I’ve found Mr. Bundy to be a sympathetic character this week is this: I believe that every one of us — you and I — have, at some time or another said something to make a point, only to put our foot in our mouths. Sometimes it’s in private, sometimes publicly. We’ve all been there. And I would hope that there is a little forgiveness available to those who misspeak: “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
          God bless.
          (By the way, my screen name is an homage to a frequent contributor on this blog: Mr. “Legal Eagle” who delights in those words. So, I would prefer, “Mr. Dumbass” if you please!)

          • notalib

            Very well said. Good point. I’m sure the good Rev. would agree with that. :-)

          • http://www.drhodges.org/ Rev. Dr. Ronald E. Hodges

            OK …I’ll hit on that hook that you put out there.

            With respect to you coming to rescue of Bundy’s on his public comments, please keep in mind that a person is never off the record in comments made on camera.

            I am not sure if you are sympathetic to Bundy’s nasty comments made about slavery or just the fact his comments were exposed for the whole world to see his disdain for people of color.

            Bundy like many others know full well before they speak that what inside them carried as a slant against others may come out when they feel free to speak, and this is what happened to Bundy like many others.

            We need to in this country move away from the continued race and needless comments to make a point about another point using race that only distracts from the initial point attempting to be made.

            Indeed there is agreement that we all have say something we later regret, this really is not the point now is it when it comes to your defense of Bundy.

            The point in the instant case of Bundy is that his comments are a reflection of how Bundy and many others that feel like him crossed over the line from quite tacit unspoken feelings to comments that were publicly exposed.

            This was what we were taught as children that a person does not have to always speak with they feel regardsless of if they are on or off the record or camera, it just basic courtesy to others.

            Now that we both have had the opportunity to at least have a civil discussion on the matter neither clearly moving from their respective positions, please keep this mind.

            When Bundy’s, Deen’s and similar types in world speak about race, the color of person’s skin given at birth by the very God that I suspect we both love and respect, then it is not only very beneath them and also very unnecessary.

            It reflects a distasteful manner of civil respectful mutual communication necessary to have a meaning dialogue on our difference and what we hold mutually important that we can agree upon.

            We done here on this topic have a great day and enjoy Church on Sunday.

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            Dr. Hodges, at the moment, I have to be brief. I watched the raw, unedited video, listening to his words and his heart. I try to understand him as well as I try to understand you. And in the context of his remarks, I came away with the belief that his social comments were meant to convey the concern of how the government’s involvement in social welfare programs have hurt, rather than helped people. He spoke, not only of African Americans, but of Hispanics, as well. And, in his heart, I believe he wants nothing but the best, based on freedom, for all of us. I can’t see into his heart, of course, but that is my interpretation from the totality of his remarks. He is not a particularly articulate man and his choice of words could have been better. But his remarks have opened a new dialogue which diverted the subject of grazing rights, BLM reaction, citizen activism, etc. But, carte blanche branding him as a racist unfairly diminishes the land controversy. That part is too convoluted with the various lawsuits, rulings, etc. for me to follow right now. So I’ll let that play out in the courts. I encourage everyone to take the time to watch the entire unedited video.

          • La Sombra

            HD: Bundy’s comments are reprehensible, but the Rev.’s issue is not what was said, but that Bundy singled out one particular segment of the population. You see, if Bundy had singled out the homosexual population, the Rev. wouldn’t have taken issue. I know, this is off topic, but the Rev. will know what I’m talking about.

          • http://www.drhodges.org/ Rev. Dr. Ronald E. Hodges

            Angie Mendez (aka La Sombra online), yes you are off topic regarding Bundy’s reprehensible comments about blacks being better off in slavery. No amount of post public explaining will correct what was said and what he clearly stated.

            This much many have agreed. However, I could not pass up the opportunity to respond your “homosexual population” comments… La Sombra.

            While your account of Bundy’s comments being redistricted to “one particular segment of the population” may not be entirely accurate, this really is not the point you desire to make regarding my comments now is it Mendez.

            To cue-in the rest of world from the many that may be wondering what we both know is your “off topic” remark and without question.

            Indeed, I fully and unashamedly support marriage between a man and women in accordance with God plan and the written Word.

            The LGBT gay homosexual choice lifestyle community has sought support for gay lifestyle choices with attempts to draw disgusting unrelated, dissociative and unsupported parallels to slavery as a civil rights issue for personal gay lifestyle choice.

            I have written extensively on this topic on From The Office of Dr. Ronald E. Hodges Blog, regarding this disgusting tacit and strategy in using slavery by the LGBT gay homosexual choice lifestyle community agenda to gain traction.

            Since no body is born gay, the gay choice community has turned to an ugly time in American history to pull at heart strings from how a whole class of people were once treated based upon the color of their skin, not a personal lifestyle choice.

            This gay choice lifestyle tacit in using the slavery parallel while clever, is trick of the devil that has snooker a lot of people for varied reasons.

            Generally, no one wants to be considered a racist or named called by LGBT gay homosexual choice lifestyle community as they normally engage when their arguments fail.

            Nevertheless the reality is there is world of difference between selecting a gay lifestyle choice and being born a person of color at birth.

            The bottom line is that color is given at birth just like being born a man or women, not a lifestyle choice to be moved in or out of by personal choice to accommodate modern culture that others are obligated to accept.

            No matter what this U.S President, Hollywood, HoneyMaid, corporate America, sympathetic following or nine black robed judges that will try to force and choke these gay choice lifestyles on American, we have the “choice” not accept what God has called sin.

            The “Church Civil War” post on my blog speaks on the topic of slavery. Nowhere by God or any other level is it right for one person to own another person the crux of slavery, and an ugly part of American history never to return regardless how much people speak fondly of it for their own motivations.

            Therefore in conclusion, it’s very clear from the Scriptures that God neither created or ordained slavery (read the post “Church Civil War” on Dr. Ronald E. Hodges Blog), slavery was the invention and convention of man and man alone.

            This much is also very clear from the Scriptures. God and Jesus both in Old and New Testaments (read “What God Really Says About LGBT on Dr. Ronald E. Hodges Blog), declared LGBT gay homosexual choice lifestyles a sin past, present and forever more this will NEVER change no matter what to God be glory.

          • La Sombra

            How self-righteously indignant of you, Rev. Of course you couldn’t pass it up the opportunity. I, too, could not pass up the opportunity to highlight the hypocrisy of your sentiments and your statements on both the subjects of Bundy and homosexuality.

          • legal eagle

            As Mr. Bundy, under your theory of bigotry, does not qualify as a graduate of the Archie Bunker school of bigotry, I have no doubt that you believe that racism, discrimination and bigotry no longer exists in America….Here is my new term for people like yourself, “THE WILLFULLY IGNORANT” portion of the American population….You can shorten it to Mr. Will Ignorant…

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            I may be wrong about Mr. Bundy, but based on what I have seen in the raw, unedited footage of the event, the man I heard speak–however awkwardly–was trying to make a point that is not racist. I urge you to take the time to see the whole video–not the edited clip–with an open mind and you might understand why I think this. Racism, my friend, will always exist in some people because it is the easiest way to attack them. We will always have good people and bad people; the bad people keep law enforcement and the judicial system in business. Racism will never go away completely as long as there are people. If it wasn’t skin color, it would be the color of their hair or eyes or something else. But we have come a long way and, as Mr. Bundy said, we don’t want to go back to the 60’s. So no, I am not willfully ignorant, and you wouldn’t say that to me, if you really knew me. But view the whole video, putting aside your preconceived ideas, and you may have–at the very least–a less harsh view.
            Now, I’ve been polite in my response to you, even though I’ve adopted a new screen name in your honor. I welcome any civil comments from you, but if you have to say anything snarky you may keep them to yourself, as from this point forward, I will not respond to comments that are mean spirited.

          • legal eagle

            In the1960’s apologists for segregation and discrimination couched their arguments in terms of “states rights”. People like George Wallace denied they were prejudiced or bigoted. They claimed that they were misunderstood and the relevant issue was “states rights”.
            One can always rationalize discrimination and bigotry by claiming that underlying the poor choice of words is an
            “important constitutional issue”.
            I could care less about Bundy. I am a bit disturbed, but not surprised, that some posters on this site, actually agree with Bundy’s thinking.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Hey, are going to again claim that Wallace was a Republican? That was pretty funny last time.

          • Jeff Webb

            Hey, at least the Democrats never let a former Klansman run for Congress. How insane would THAT be?

          • Ron F

            Comparing slavery to welfare is not putting your foot in your mouth. In addition, the comments were unsolicited.

          • legal eagle

            Thanks for the endorsement….I’m honored….LOL

          • legal eagle

            Cliven Bundy is about as sympathetic as Ted Bundy…

          • therealguyfaux

            “Cliven Bundy is about as sympathetic as Ted Bundy…”

            Hadda go there, right?
            Because flippin’ off the Feds is on a par with brutally murdering women.
            But you’re probably right, if you mean that, to Libs, his “offense” of saying “negro” is as heinous as a literal War Against Women, if not more so.
            Sarc-mark your friend is, padawan– do not its use fear.

          • Ark

            LOL

      • Ron F

        If he was referring to people of all colors, why did he single out blacks and compare welfare to slavery?

    • followthetruth

      Dear Rev. Dr.: I really find it difficult to believe that you are TRULY a Rev. My father was, and he would have NEVER spoken the way you just have. I was listening another minister on TV, telling his parishioners to listen to CNN, and MSNBC, but that FOX was hateful. Am I living in the real world? YOU sir, as a man of “the gospel” as you have presented yourself, will follow a crowd who espouses everything that the Good Book is against? It just takes my breath at how many seem to think that race always had anything to do with slavery. There are MORE SLAVES in the world today, than ever before. Our children are being snatched off the streets in THIS country, and being sold as sex slaves. The media never talks about that. Do you? For hundreds of years, “white” people were slaves to kings and queens. They were owned chattel. Our schools have dumbed down education so much, and are so selective about what they “teach” (it is now indoctrination), that we have 2 or 3 generations who are NOT being taught true US and WORLD history. Yes, the US had a bad time in it’s history…but why is it that NO ONE EVER talks about how the “slaves” got here? They were SOLD BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE. And…the hatred between supposed “brethren” in Africa are still causing millions of deaths. The American people have paid for generations, and it is time for this to stop being something that divides us. We may not be perfect yet, but are well on our way to much better.
      Margaret Sanger, founder of planned parenthood, wanted the abortion industry to “get rid of these “lesser” human beings. And, you all have fallen right into the trap of the Democratic Party Machine, STILL telling you what to do. If you don’t….EXCOMMUNICATION from the parteeee…. Sorry, sir, that is not Godly, and neither were your comments you posted above. It should make you stop and think, that when a “party” throws SUCH A FIT if you disagree with them, you should very carefully look at why. I would hate to think I had “believed a lie….” . What good does light have with darkness?
      It was actually the Republicans who brought relief from slavery, but you have listened to your masters, and come to hate other people when you don’t even know truly what they stand for. Personally, I don’t care for either party, we need Independent thinking, COURAGOUS PEOPLE, who will stand up to those who are hurting our nation. What Mr. Bundy was saying, and I must admit, in a very INARTFUL way, was that it appears to him, that so many poor, which are black, Hispanic, and truthfully white also, are “slaves” to the masters who throw them a few dollars. Sadly, much of those dollars are borrowed, and you can bet those party leaders won’t be the ones paying it back. It will be your children and grandchildren.
      I do pray, Reverend Dr., that you will live ABSOLUTELY by the word of that Mighty GOOD BOOK, and not judge, lest you are judged. I KNEW beyond doubt, that Mr. Bundy would be tripped up, as the professional “hit team” would be sent to bring him down. And, it certainly happened. Now the assassination has started. And, the good book speaks of that.
      One last question, Rev., do you like folks judging you by one or two things you say? Would you not like for someone to get to know you a little before they banish you? As a man of God, you are being grossly unfair, and are jumping instead of listening and forgiving. And everyone talks about his civil disobedience. God will judge him for that. Remember Rosa Parks? When she sat on the bus, I believe it was not LEGAL at that time. Are you going to put her down?
      God forgive us all. This hatred is the worst I’ve seen in years and years!

      • legal eagle

        So your father was a minister and a bigot? Seems he taught you well..

        • followthetruth

          You know NOTHING of which you speak. You see, this is how you do things. …you haven’t seen me, don’t know anything about me, yet you judge me as a bigot? You don’t know what color I am, NOTHING. You are a piece of work. And yes, my father taught me very well. He taught me not to be like you, and make snap judgements.

  • George Burns

    You, Mr. Goldberg, are a jackass.

    How do you like being called names? If you can call Cliven Bundy “stupid”, I can call you a jackass, for a jackass you are.

    First, you seem to take issue with Mr. Bundy’s use of the word “Negroes”. Since when did you start bowing to the politically correct crowd? Or did you forget that the “NAACP” actually stands for the “National Association for the Advancement of COLORED PEOPLE”. Would you have given Bundy a pass if he had said “colored people”? Have you also forgotten about the UNCF, which stands for: “United NEGRO College Fund”?

    Second, if Mr. Bundy wants to reflect upon the condition of black Americans, who are you, or anyone else, to take issue with his rather stark commentary? Blacks do have a disproportionately high rate of abortions (In Mississippi, 72% of aborted babies are black – cnsnews.com, 2/25/14) and incarcerations. Bundy is right on that point. As far as black youths not having “anything to do”, do you remember Bill Clinton/Al Gore’s famous “midnight basketball” program? As it relates to the disproportionate inactivity of black youths, Bundy is right again. And in the abstract, wondering whether an entire subculture is any better off today than it was 150 years ago is not a crime. Seventy percent (70%) of today’s Afro-American families are fatherless. 70%, Goldberg, 70%. Looks like Bundy is right again.

    Now, as far as Bundy’s dispute with the BLM goes, it isn’t that Bundy is guiltless in failing to pay grazing fees, to the extent that that issue has been properly adjudicated in the federal courts. It is whether or not the federal government, to satisfy a judgment or to keep Bundy’s cattle from harming the desert tortoise (more on this point later), can send armed men onto his property to confiscate his herd. If you legitimately owed the federal government money, would it be permissible for armed federal agents to force open your garage and seize your cars?

    As far as the desert tortoise issue goes, this is a non-issue. Harry Reid apparently helped secure a Department of Interior waiver concerning the desert tortoise issue to build a huge solar facility in Nevada (the “Silver State South Solar Project”). If the government is going to forgo the protection of the desert tortoises for a solar facility, it can do the same for ranchers who want to use public lands for grazing.

    And finally, you jackass, there can be no legitimate comparison between Bundy and the “Occupy” crowd. Bundy is a businessman who is engaging in a legitimate business activity. “Occupy” people had no right, whatsoever, to engage in their disruptive and destructive behaviors.

    Is Bundy, or should he be, a folk hero? Probably not. On the other hand, the federal authorities did mishandle the entire matter. Call it a draw, Goldberg, and leave it alone.

    • Ryan Nichols

      I disagreed with you a couple days ago. I thought he was insensitive with his words. I thought he might well be a racist man. But after rereading his full script, and really just thinking objectively. . Well my conclusion is Bundy is a intelligent man. And I do not believe him to be racist. And it’s the media that are the stupid people here. At least the ones who choose to edit and manipulate Bundy ‘s words. Now I still believe that metaphors like picking cotton are going to raise speculation. But in the end, much of what he was trying to convey was accurate.

      African American people do have a family crisis. From lack of having stable homes, and father figures. Many are out of work and without the skills needed to be successful. I pray we can defeat racism, as well as political correctness. We all can stop being so race sensitive, so we can help each other succeed. We are currently instilling racial lines in our youngest generation now because of the word racist being thrown around willy nilly. The media, especially the far left are in my opinion generating racism. That should be your headline Bernie.. Media Generating Racism

      • Peace

        Ryan, I congratulate you for your honesty. Earlier this week I challenged the allegations and was rewarded by JMax with the link to the complete, raw video. I included the link in a previous post. I, too, wanted to know the context of Mr. Bundy’s remarks. I found him honestly concerned for the people of this country and how they are affected by the government’s policies. I urge everyone to watch the video and form their opinions, keeping an open and objective mind. The video and transcript are at: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/04/24/cliven-bundy-controversial-remarks-full-context-video-with-transcript/

      • legal eagle

        You claim to be able to be objective? You must be kidding?

        • Ryan Nichols

          Being questioned by you on being objective is like say.. being questioned about being objective by Chris Matthews. You don’t know what it is.

  • DaveW

    Bernie, just another example of how the far right is damaging the Repubilcan Party. Somehow, the far left doesn’t do as much damage to the Democrats. They just get the far right angry. I believe that the far right has eliminated any chance of a Republican President since the moderates and normally undecided voters will never support the Republican Party.

    • sjangers

      That’s accurate, Dave. But there was a time when the opposite was true. The far left often proved an embarrassment to the Democrats during the ’60s and ’70s. What needs to change in message, medium to deliver the message, and the country, in order to get people to view our extremes as no more disturbing than the far out left?

      • legal eagle

        The anti-war movement was an embarrassment to the Democrats? Nonsense…

        • Seattle Sam

          Somehow I sense you weren’t around during the 1968 election.

          • legal eagle

            I sure was…..Much bigger embarrassment to the Chicago Gestapo and the rule of law…and with all that Nixon barely won..

        • Ryan Nichols

          Really? So you agreed with them waiting at the airport for our soldiers to arrive from battle so they could literally spit in their faces and call them baby killers? You stand by that as something the left should be proud of?

          • legal eagle

            I didn’t say I agree with every tactic or with every crazy….I don’t even know that the incident you mentioned actually occurred except as a figment of the Nixon campaign….Opposition to the war does not now, and did not then mean opposition to the troops with the exception of military brass such as Westmoreland…

          • Ryan Nichols

            So you just discredit the hundreds of troops this happened too? They’re just liars. Opposition to the war back then by radical leftist often did lash out against the soldiers. Which did mean opposition to the soldiers. You do realize there’s countless accounts of this happening?

          • legal eagle

            I see…So opposition to the war was unwarranted? What is a radical leftist? You’re dealing in clichés…

          • Ryan Nichols

            You’re dealing in misinformation. You insinuated that any thought that there were embarrassing moments created by any far left group or individual is nonsense.. I’m simply stating that is completely untrue. And I gave you an example. I would consider someone holding a sign reading baby killers and spitting on U.S . service members fresh of the plane home a radical, extreme, and obscene.

          • legal eagle

            Perhaps you had to be around at the time…How old are you?

          • legal eagle

            I would consider the Kent State murders far more obscene, wouldn’t you?

          • Ryan Nichols

            That has nothing to do with the topic. National Guard troops are not radical leftist or right.

          • legal eagle

            Just killers of innocent students….nothing “radical” about that?

          • Ryan Nichols

            Maybe you should find out how they voted.

          • Ryan Nichols

            Not that shooting students was the right thing to do. And no its not radical. It’s the sad tragic outcome of escalating violence and lawbreaking. Met with over the top unnecessary force. It’s was a horrible learning experience. For both sides.

          • legal eagle

            Kent State was a learning experience? For what, defending charges of manslaughter?

          • Jeff Webb

            Ryan, don’t let LE “squirrel!” you like that. Inserting Kent State was his way of avoiding embarrassing himself any further.

          • Ryan Nichols

            Ya. It’s his m.o.

          • legal eagle

            “hundreds of troops’? That’s the best you can do?

          • Ryan Nichols

            The stories are there for you to read. I realize the left are and have done their best to discredit soldiers accounts. But the odds that it didn’t happen are astronomical.

          • sjangers

            There were still images and video of some pretty vile attacks on returning troops, Eagle. I can’t specifically recall an image of spitting but have heard the claim many times. Given the virulence of the verbal attacks, I’d be very surprised if there weren’t a least a few spitting incidents. What’s the point of questioning this?

          • legal eagle

            There were many images of a lot of bad stuff during the Vietnam War…The point I was trying to make is that the Vietnam War apologists really need to come up with a better rationalization for hating the anti-war movement than “spitting incidents”…
            I’m questioning the fact that it was brought up in another post.

          • sjangers

            This thread of discussion started from the premise, which you denied, that the far left often proved an embarrassment to Democrats during the ’60s and ’70s. You specifically cited the anti-war movement as far left activity that never made the Democrats look bad.

            Ryan jumped into the conversation and mentioned incidents where war protesters spit at returning vets and called them baby killers; the sort of far left behavior that really did give the Democrats a black eye, as most Americans were able to differentiate between opposition to the war and support for the young men who were drafted into service during that war.

            You responded to Ryan that you didn’t agree with every tactic of the far left, an assertion which completely makes our original case. Like Democrats of that era, Republicans today don’t agree with every tactic of the far right or with all their crazies, despite your attempts to taint all conservatives and Republicans with the actions of a few. QED, as our friend Integrity is fond of saying.

            Then you tried to deny that spitting incidents actually occurred, although most reasonable people accept that such behavior- or something equally vile- did occur. I guess that puts you in the same camp with some of our crazy conspiracy theorists on the far right. Those who deny President Obama is a natural born American citizen are called “birthers”. Should we call you a “spitter”?

        • sjangers

          I see a couple of folks got here ahead of me on the anti-war movement, Eagle. Other elements of the liberal agenda that were taken to embarrassing extremes, at least for the time period, by leftist outliers include: environmentalism, atheism and/or secular humanism, gay rights, and the class struggle. Again, we’re not talking about the issues so much as the way elements of the far left presented their views. The same is true today. Most elements of the conservative agenda aren’t unreasonable. It’s the extreme to which those views are taken by the far right that can be harmful to the image of conservatism and to Republicans in general.

          • legal eagle

            Crazies make the media i.e.. Abbie Hoffman, Ann Coulter etc….The media presents their views and they have to act out their role to get in the media….In my opinion, there is no conservative agenda, other than to obstruct, there is a plutocratic agenda. Most Conservatives are not bright enough to differentiate between the two..

          • sjangers

            If you want to take the argument to that sort of extreme, one might counter that there is no liberal agenda but an authoritarian democratic agenda. Of course, I wouldn’t make such an argument. It might offend liberals who like to think of themselves as bright.

    • Ryan Nichols

      You sure speak for a lot of people.

  • TRmandm

    It seems to me that what he was saying was that black Americans have traded one master for another; they were enslaved involuntarily by white men and NOW they are being enslaved voluntarily by a white government.
    While his point was inartfully made his point is also very interesting and his observation very sad.

    • legal eagle

      Inartful bigotry? As opposed to the more artful bigotry expressed on Fox News daily?

      • Jeff Webb

        Racism is expressed every day on FNC? Prove it.

        Extra credit if you can find any examples that are as virulently racist as you.

        • sjangers

          That’s just unkind, Jeff. Our trolls come here to demand that we back up any opinions we dare to express. They certainly don’t expect to be called out on their own opinions; not even when they veer into hyperbole.

        • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

          Legal’s posts are even weirder than usual tonight. I’m wondering what he’s drinking.

          • Jeff Webb

            My money’s on he got too close when the missus was removing her nail polish.

          • sjangers

            Or perhaps he was helping JMax remove some turd polish.

        • legal eagle

          O’Reilly’s attacks on Beyoncé…

          • Jeff Webb

            First, post a link.
            Second, you said “every day,” so you’ll have to work a little harder than that. I’ll settle for the past 7 days.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            LOL! Well there you have it, folks. If someone Legal doesn’t like is critical of a person who happens to be black, they’re a racist!

            Thanks for actually spelling it out this time, rather than just inferring it.

  • Observer

    People will see bigotry and racism wherever they choose to see it.

  • veeper

    The “hard right” and the “hard left” along with the rest of the country needed a uniter in 2008…..

    what the country got was a pot stirring divider….

    constant chaos, tension, turmoil, stress, division, hatred and fighting has been the tone and atmosphere set by obama and his administration…..

    • mcveen

      Ahem, an astute observation there veeper! You crystallized the answer to my disparate, wandering questions about our current political condition.

      Thank You

  • therealguyfaux

    OK, here’s the deal– WHY should anyone, Sean Hannity, other commentators, ANYONE– make this about, “Cly, ya let us down, by runnin’ yer face!”

    This isn’t about the PERSON. We’ve had WAY too much cult-of-personality with Barry and the Leftists, haven’t we? To somehow idolize Cliven Bundy was silly to begin with and fairly reeked of what the Left did with Trayvon Martin. Now, to prove “we” are somehow better than the Left, in that WE “police our own,” Bundy must be taken down from the altar and have his icon smashed!

    Buried in all this is the fact that there are some yutzes out there who might actually think that, well, OK, his point about the overreach sounded good, but, because he’s a (*bwahahahahaha!*) Eeeeeeeevil “racist,” that, ipso facto, invalidated the overreach point. “He’s bad, for what he said about picking cotton, so guess what, now we don’t care about his other point, because he’s a bad’un!” Give me a GD break, here!

    See, we’ve gotten all Alinsky here, and made it into “all politics is personal,” because we honestly believe, as do the Left, that most people are incapable of nuanced thinking, which idea we got from watching the Left– we make Bundy a hero, he acts, to some people’s minds, like an assclown, we dump him. No broader point to be made, except insofar as we have a poster boy to do it with.

    GTFOH with that nonsense!

    OK, call me a concern-troll– my history, which is NOT private, will prove otherwise– but y’all gotta take your heads outta your asses and understand, you were wrong to have made Bundy into such a hero/martyr in the first place, whether he ever made any comments or not. I’ll join the We’re-better-than-that chorus on the OTHER side of it– we’re better than to get all swoony and moony-eyed just because someone seemd to typify the struggle for us. But idols have feet of clay, folks– never forget that; you’ll save yourselves a lot of grief.

  • D Parri

    To paraphrase Justice Kennedy, “How do you stop racism? Stop being racist.”

    That includes white racists, black racists, brown racists, yellow racists, green racists, and possibly purple racists.

    • JBubs

      I was taught that there is only one race. Human.

      • Nicholas344

        You were taught wrong. There are two races. The first is the progressive elite and the second and more numerous is the “Great Unwashed” ruled by the Progressive elite.

        • JBubs

          If by “race” you mean a contest, then you are correct.

    • mcveen

      Minor correction. I think Jesse Jackson said that black people cannot be racist.

      • Peace

        In 1969, I was in a university sociology seminar on racism which included the local Black Panther leader, a very militant young man who went on to become a professor at another well-known university. The discussion involved different people reading and reporting on a variety of opinions from printed media, and discussion. A very heated discussion ensued with Mr. Panther arguing that black people could not be racist, since they were the victims of it. There was no communication between us; the belief was absolute: racism (even unintentional, like Mr. Bundy’s use of “Negro”) was one-way. I have hoped that things would have changed.

        • sjangers

          For many Americans, I think our understanding of racism has evolved, Peace. The few who routinely benefit from throwing charges of racism around will continue to resist the idea that they and their allies could ever be guilty of such prejudice, so they manipulate the definition of the word to prevent their own behavior from being identified and accurately labeled. But I think the majority in this country recognize that any negative thoughts, speech or actions based on stereotypes of others is ignorant and wrong.

  • Nicholas344

    I’m waiting for Bernie to join Hannity in condemnation of the song “Summertime” as racist. It not only was written by a white guy but speaks of mother love and family even though the song was about cotton pickers. Bernie and Hannity have convinced us that putting such people in a positive light in comparison to what goes on now in Detroit or Chicago as a result of the progressive agenda is politically incorrect and intolerable. We must glorify the results of the progressive agenda while condemning family values amongst those being referred to in the song.
    Of course Bundy would understand but he hasn’t been educated like Bernie and Hannity so doesn’t realize that saying anything positive about the people written about in “Summertime” as opposed to modern progressive attitudes is racist.
    Live and learn.

    • legal eagle

      You win the award for the dumbest comment of the week….Thanks for sharing your idiocy…

      • Nicholas344

        Another fool joins in condemnation of “Summertime” and its presumption that family values including mother love can exist within physical slavery.

  • D Parri

    Apparently, Cliven Bundy has been fighting to maintain his own personal world for a very long time. In doing that, it is now clear that he chose to not follow the rest of the nation as it morphed into the civil rights activism / entitlement guaranteed / progressive liberal government–nation that we’ve now become.

    Mr. Bundy’s comments are directly out of the script written for a generation that is seen today with great clarity as being bigoted and racist, but he was well within the norms of society 60-70 years ago.

    My only question is why did those near Cliven Bundy allow him to express those views, especially to a reporter? Wasn’t his call to arms intended to be based strictly upon the principle of preventing government overreach?

    So long, cowboy.

    • mcveen

      Yeah, Clive’s story is a paradox for conservatives.

  • Invictus_Lux

    And now both liberal and conservative info-arms traders are co-conspiring to take out Clive Bundy to prevent him from becoming a folk hero – calling him a racist now. He’s upsetting the good-cop bad-cop game that feeds the drama of the media and threatens their convenient broker relationships that give each side the drama to generate their vig.

    In spite of the best attempts of the National Propaganda Machine to hog-tie and brand Clive Bundy as a racist this desperate spasm to prevent the man from breaking the programmed new American “effeminate GQ Renaissance-man” mold to become a popular American Folk Hero is backfiring gloriously. Anyone with a shred of objectivity knows that Clive Bundy is no racist.

    The national media is desperately trying to hijack the semantics of the word “racist” and reinvent it to mean anyone who does not follow the liberal script and social-programming and one who dares to break their monopoly as the only authorized spokespersons to speak on ethnic topics (and ruin their broker relationship). The new lexicon for “racism” means anyone who would dare to challenge the liberal vision of creating co-dependency and enslaving the human spirit in exchange for docility and knowing one’s place; a place where one should just be a good-sharecropper ward of the state and take the handouts in perpetual co-dependency in a system where the only labor is to vote democrat against all self interest and reason.

    No, a racist is a person who walks around and says “I am an Aryan therefor I am better than all Asians, the Black or the Hebrew”; or who says “Blacks have been held down by the White Devils and are the true superior race (Louis Farrakhan Muhammad)”; or “I am a Jew and a Chosen Person by God who’s destined by birthright and Divine Providence to be superior to the filthy Gentiles”; or “I am a Persian Muslim and all Jews are descendants of apes and swine and do not have a right to exist”.

    Clive Bundy has nothing to do with any of that. He has not shown a smidgen of racism. He is a simple man who speaks in simple terms with just a touch of cowboy cultural metaphor. When he says “a lot of today’s’ blacks never learned how to pick cotton” this is his cowboy vernacular. Taken in full context anyone with an honest intellect knows he is saying something more like this: “Blacks on the welfare system were enslaved by gov to never have the motivation to learn a trade or skill and gain the satisfaction and liberation of earning by the sweat of their brow and gaining the pride and sense of accomplishment”. That is compassionate empathy and remarkable introspection – the exact opposite of what the media is portraying about the man. If you listen to the man’s words he is asking rhetorically “are blacks any better off as sharecroppers on the modern gov plantation of the welfare state as they were under the old system of slavery where they at least had families and were not encouraged by gov to abort their children and statistically end up in federal prison or dead in street, gang and drug violence that is worse than any slave was ever treated?”.

    The man makes a valid point that cuts to the chase and calls the modern progressive welfare state what it is – a failure and an institution that enslaves rather than elevates and liberates.

    This is going to backfire on media. If people can’t see through the media charade then we all deserve to be put on the reservation by our wold-be government overlords.

    • Spencer

      Good piece.

    • Ron F

      You do not think that it was racist for him to think he knows what is best for another race or the fact that he thought he should speak out about another race. I have not seen the entire video but I am not aware of anyone asking him about what is wrong with or what needs to be done for black Americans. And isn’t he part of the entitlement group by using federal land without paying for it?

      • mcveen

        Where did that come from? Clive didn’t say that he knew what was better for another race. He was trying to say that they would be better off picking cotton for their pay rather than gov’t handouts. Can we agree that gainful employment is better than
        gov’t handouts?

        • Ron F

          McVeen, I think he said that they might have been better off picking cotton as slaves than taking government handouts. Slavery is not gainful employment. And when he speaks about one race in particular, he is stating what he believes is best for that race.

          • veeper

            slaves received room & board, food and clothing as pay for their work…..

            and, some received horses, cows, pigs and chickens for their personal consumption and use……

            slaves were compensated……which is why many chose to remain even after being freed.

          • legal eagle

            Thanks for your bigotry….

          • veeper

            You’re welcome…..

            Just wanted to return your bigotry…..

            you’re doing a great job being a racist bigot…..

      • Invictus_Lux

        What an absurd question. This is what liberals do every day when they tell us what is best for blacks – more welfare, more entitlements, more free-stuff and more abortions to keep their voting numbers down. You are totally assimilated into the irrationality of the left.

        The land is scrub land – useless to anyone except a man like Bundy who can at least get beef and dairy out of it while leaving fertilizer behind and then get taxed on product. That’s win-win.

        I guess you have no heard what’s really behind this whole fiasco have you? It’s Harry Reid’s son brokering a deal with a Chinese solar energy company to use millions of acres at dirty cheap lease rates and that company needing endangered species mitigation. And guess where Harry Reid’s friends want to move those turtles to give permits to the Chinese – the Bundy Ranch area. Surprised? IT’s a TOTAL SCAM.

    • dld

      Very perceptive. I don’t think that he used a poor choice of words to make his comparisons and I don’t think he should be branded a racist. He sees the government enslaving many people into dependency.

    • mcveen

      Admire your passion, Invictus_Lux

  • One Man’s Opinion

    I posted my thoughts about the level of discussion on this blog a few days ago… about the entrenched beliefs of a lot of individuals that block out thinking and reason, resulting in a lot of talking past each other, rather than useful debate. I realize that if the people of today were transported to the time of our founding fathers, that 200+ years later, they’d still be arguing, and we wouldn’t have a country! (Don’t bother to say, “they’d be dead.” If they were able to time travel, then they won’t die! It’s my story, after all.)

    As I said before, whether you are on the Right or on the Left, I hope someday that you can yield enough to concentrate on what is best for our Country, rather than what is best for your Party. We The People of this country, should be raising the level of discourse, not driving it to the lowest levels of playground bullying. We are better than that; if we’re not, then God help us all.

    • Mark W.

      Good post, One Man. When reading comments on any blog, I respect the ones who make thoughtful statements. The ones who use derogatory terms aren’t worth paying attention to. Too much name calling and not enough substance!

  • Peace

    Context helps to understand what Mr. Bundy said.
    .
    Thanks to contributor “JMax” for providing the link to the complete video. Please take a look, as other topics were discussed:
    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/04/24/cliven-bundy-controversial-remarks-full-context-video-with-transcript/ . Total unedited raw footage: 67 minutes. Controversial remarks begin around 13 minutes.
    .
    He describes his experience in Los Angeles during the 1965 Watts riots which went on for about a week and were not confined to Watts. He concluded, “What I seen is civil disturbance. People are not happy, people is thinking they did not have their freedom; they didn’t have these things, and they didn’t have them. We’ve progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and we sure don’t want to go back; we sure don’t want African Americans to go back to that point; we sure don’t want Hispanics to go back to that point; and we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies, and do it in a peaceful way.” (yes, I replaced the words Negro and Mexican… but the message is the same, but less inflammatory). Next, his now-famous “slavery” comment was an awkward way to compare how government bureaucracies have essentially enslaved them and created dependency on government programs. Words have impact; and sometimes they get in the way of the message.
    .
    Mr. Bundy is not a particularly articulate man, but he does not strike me as a mean man, just one whose choice of words are easily taken out of context and by using an older description of African Americans (one that was common and used by Martin Luther King without any problems), he is branded a “racist.” As a result, the attention is shifted to race and bigotry in order to discredit him and deflecting the discussion from several important issues that these events have raised.

    • Spencer

      You can tell by what he meant that he is not bigoted, but is concerned about the country, its citizens and immigrants (legal or not). Thanks for the link. All of what he said is not being reported, and some of it is particularly heartfelt.

      • Tim Bertram Black

        He needs to pay us what he owes us. America doesn’t need one more republican taker.

        • Hyperbolic Dumbass

          Don’t you really mean, “America doesn’t need one more taker?”

          • Tim Bertram Black

            No… I’m talking the rich republican takers living off the tax payers… the REAL takers.

          • One Man’s Opinion

            You have blinders on, my friend. Take them off, look around at the real world. Time to grow up and think like an adult..

          • Tim Bertram Black

            This dude owes us $2 million dollars — which is a pittance… Americans are ready to kill other Americans simply because this guy won’t pay what he owes.
            This is another Whiskey Rebellion — and if George Washington was alive, he’d do the same to them what he did back in 1791.
            This man is no patriot — he doesn’t even acknowledge that the federal government exists.
            Those are the fax, Jack!

          • Observer

            It’s amazing how inflation works. Since this story broke, the Left has inflated the amount the government is owed from a few hundred thousand dollars, then for the last week its been a million dollars. Now it’s $2 million and it’s called a “pittance.” And we’re told there’s no inflation. You’d think we were back in the Carter administration! Gotta go buy some bread now, get out the wheelbarrow!

          • Tim Bertram Black

            I don’t think we would want to induce these lunatics into killing fellow americans over what is a very very small piece of the total pie. Right???
            $2 million is a heck of a lot — but if these diptoids start killing americans, it will cost us lots lots more to fix it.
            $2 million is what I’ve heard quoted — it is fees and fines, etc.

          • Peace

            That’s one of the problems… “$2 is what I’ve HEARD quoted…” Heard and repeat. Remember the children’s game where you sit in a circle, with the first child whispering something into the second child’s ear, with the process repeated until the last person reveals what the first one said? And how different the versions are? Too many people still do the same thing, until the stories are distorted, repeated, and are believed as fact. It’s easier to repeat stories, than to investigate and get to the source. Facts are important. They will speak for themselves.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            I’ve heard it, read it, and it seems to be the number that the other numbers revolve around. But it isn’t germain to the logic of what is being discussed. On Fox, Bundy himself said it may be $3 million including the cost the BLM spent rounding up his cattle.
            The facts are important — but getting your pink panties in a twist over this particular number is ridiculous.
            Let’s say he owes $x… just x. See? the same arguments hold true.
            But really, what IS your point? Don’t bother — I’m sure it is ridiculous.

          • Peace

            I stated my point. You seem to get upset too easily.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            I presume they are pink panties. Again: not germain.

          • mcveen

            Tim, you’re part of the Big Easy for gov’t crowd aren’t you?

          • Tim Bertram Black

            Progressives are for smaller more efficient government — naturally.
            Why did we need a new department of homeland security for instance? We already had tons of overlapping inefficient agencies whose edict was to enforce that stuff.
            Why? Dubya… your Favorite Son… who wasted trillions… wasted it. $87 billion in $100 bills… lost almost as soon as it got to iraq…
            Seriously.

          • Integrity

            Your first sentence is nonsensical. Granted there may be a few exceptions, but this is the first instance that I have ever witnessed. No disagreement with the excess government agencies; there are many more that I would eliminate. Has it ever occurred to you that many of us are tired of the wasteful spending of both parties? QED

          • Tim Bertram Black

            I’m tired of it, too. It has been going on for a long time. We need some more people like Elizabeth Warren to stick their feet to the fire. Truman was very successful in his capacity on the oversight committee o waste during the war…
            Your supreme court just turned over elections to corporations foreign and domestic… so, it ain’t going to get better. But — that’s what YOU get when YOU vote for dillweeds like dubya TWICE!
            Follow Cliven’s brave example — just don’t pay your share, then threaten to kill americans if they trry to get it. That’s what you’ve been cheering on.

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            Mr. Black! Mr. Black, I have read your comments on this blog and, after reading all of them, I’ve been persuaded! You have shown me The Way out of my misguided thinking. I now denounce my past narrow minded ideas and values. I promise to not only vote for Ms. Warren, but will actively campaign for her. On Monday, I will empty my 401k and donate it to her. Thank you for all of your warm and wonderful ideas. I will hate Republicans and Conservatives forever and ever. And I won’t tolerate Christians for even one minute–stupid, stupid idol worshippers! Now that you have accomplished your mission and you can move on to other places to preach your good will and intelligent arguments. Yes, move on. Move Forward! Peace, Brother!

          • Tim Bertram Black

            Don’t do that with your 401k!!! That would be irresponsible…
            Don’t hate anyone!!!
            Tolerate all religions but take every opportunity to explain that they are following myths that they were indoctrinated with when they were kids.
            Religion == myths == zeus == elohim == bullhockey…
            Religion is an artifact of a stupider time.
            I am glad that I’ve made you think. So many of you are encased in the talking points of Rush/hate radio/hate tv that you reflexively balk when someone rational comes along.

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            Oh! Exactly, intelligent one. What would we have done if you had not shown up to show us The Way to enlightenment? I renounce all radio and TV. Just internet. Your work is now done here. You can Move On to other places now… Forward, you know… Forward… other blogs to save, other stupid people to enlighten. Go now, you’ve done your job. I promise. Yes, you’ve done more than you know. Time to go other places now. Bye.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            All media sources have good and bad about them. The internet is one of the worst because like-minded crazies gather around the same flames and talk themselves into frenzies about “Obama’s Weather Weapons” or that “Obama is muslin” (lol… still luv that).
            You need to look at all sources — but be VERY skeptical all the time. I would suggest reading books… left right and center… and subscribing to respected periodicals.
            Check yourself — when you start to loon out: look at the source, look at their motivations… is there a reason why they would want you to kill Americans (in bundy’s case)? Are they manipulating you?
            Barack is not a reptilian shapeshifter from space.

            If someone tries to talk you into killing americans — please don’t do it! EVEN IF IT IS YOUR HERO CLIVEN BUNDY!!!!
            It is wrong. Do you get it? Wrong.
            Check yourself… sanity check if you find yourself buying more assault rifles than you need. Check yourself if you are stocking up on Soylent Green for the apocalypse…
            Keep an open mind.

          • Integrity

            Please provide proof that I have ever advocated to follow Cliven’s example. Funny you should use Elizabeth Warren as an example and question my integrity. QED

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            You could have stopped with “I don’t think.” We get it.

          • dld

            There’s a lot of rich Democrats but they keep that quiet for class division. The highest tax payers are the rich Democrats and Republicans and the “takers” live off the taxes that provide all of the welfare benefits.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            True, liberals don’t mind paying their fair share — so of course the highest taxes will come from rich democrats.
            Romney seemed proud to be avoiding taxes offshore. That’s wrong. We should all be proud to pay our fair share.

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            You need to get back on your meds. You are truly delusional.

          • D Parri

            Yes, it certainly made Timothy Geithner a happy man to be able pay those taxes where he had not even filed a tax return. He was saying, “Happy Days are here again!”

          • Spencer

            Thanks for the memories!

          • JohnAZ

            no… he paid them in full when he found out. i take him at his word. he didn’t get a gun and threaten to shoot fellow americans.

          • Spencer

            Not “when he found out” it was When He Was Found Out. Then there was Tom Daschle, who, when he was found out… just went away.

          • D Parri

            Don’t you ever wonder, though, why the person who was chosen to be the head of the IRS, among other duties, had not paid his taxes, or even filed, for several years prior?

            However, he didn’t mind the targeting of conservative republican 503(c)(4) applicants for the purpose of keeping his boss in office a little longer. That is hypocrisy.

          • batorsin

            In addition, I had to pay the govt. as the IRS workers who DID NOT FILE their income taxes received a bonus — OUR MONEY!

          • Tim Bertram Black

            He paid in full when he found out about it. And apologized. You right-wingers are about forgiveness, right? Heck, Jesus said to “Love your enemies”. But hate radio/tv spews nothing but corrosive rhetoric 24 x 7… and that’s fine. Just. Well, it ain’t Christian. I don’t give a hoot because I’m an atheist (NATURALLY!)… but you wingjobs on the other hand.

          • Integrity

            There is a huge difference between paying when you find out about it or when you get caught. One should have remorse before they request forgiveness. Do you know the difference between ignorance and apathy? QED

          • D Parri

            Ok, fair enough. So, out of respect of your being an atheist, FUCK OFF!

          • Jeff Webb

            D, watch the language, please.

          • D Parri

            Good enough. Language, yes. Sentiment, no.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            Huh? O right, you are x-ian — so you can just ask for forgiveness when you do something bad! Ahh, that must be so nice.
            I, however, can’t ask Zeus or Thor or whatever other myth figure for forgiveness. Atheists have to act morally 100% of the time — because they know there is no forgiveness.
            Christians on the other hand can murder, rape, do whatever … and conveniently be forgiven… perhaps even on death row!
            Religion is myth — if you had been born in Riyadh, you’d be muslim. Which is just as moronic as being a christian.
            Get IT?????

          • D Parri

            If you are an atheist, then where do you base your ethics and mores? Do you just use whatever standard that you choose–for that day?

            I suppose if you make up your own bag of garbage to spout out, then it would be easy enough to say that you act morally 100% of the time.

            No, I don’t get it because it appears that you have created your own ‘religion’. It’s called atheism and you can change it at will. How’s that working out for you. You don’t sound very happy.

            But don’t worry, I will still forgive you…even if you are a troll.

          • La Sombra

            D Parri: morals are derived from “the golden rule”, or standards of behavior set and modeled as a socially accepted norm. Some may also refer to the golden rule as ‘the ten commandments’ although not all of the ten commandments are part of the golden rule and vise versa. So it is possible to live an ethical and moral life without being a christian.

          • D Parri

            I certainly don’t have a problem with that.

            What confused me with TBB’s comment was where he stated that “Atheists have to act morally 100% of the time…”, a fact that doesn’t seem to hold water.

            I believe that history teaches us that there are some atheists who have not lived by the “golden rule”.

          • La Sombra

            There are some christians who also have not lived by the “ten commandments”.

          • D Parri

            I have not any of them claim to have lived a moral life 100% of the time.

            It is a lie for a Christian or atheist to make that claim.

          • La Sombra

            No claims are needed; sometimes actions speak louder than words. Additionally, by virtue of their christianity their hypocrisy is absolved.

          • D Parri

            I didn’t make the claim, TBB made the claim.

          • D Parri

            I didn’t make the claim, TBB made the claim.

          • D Parri

            I have not known any of them claim to have lived a moral life 100% of the time.

            It is a lie for a Christian or atheist to make that claim

          • Integrity

            He has a habit of taking a broad-brush approach when labeling a group of people which makes all of his comments irrelevant at best. QED

          • Tim Bertram Black

            We all know what is “right”… I don’t always act morally, but I feel bad about that — and can’t just “get forgiven” by zeus… I have to live with myself. Unlike x-ians who can steal, lie, cheat… then just ask zeus for forgiveness.
            You need a book of myths to tell you what is right?
            I’m happy as a clam! I don’t have to come onto sites like this and try to enlighten people like you. I do it because a lot of you folks need to wake up and at least acknowledge that Rush isn’t always right. But in fact, like all Luddites, any challenge to your views just causes you to lash out like a child… but don’t feel bad about it! Just ask Elohim for forgivensss. Ahh… nice, huh?

          • D Parri

            If you say so, you are going to make whatever rules you want to live by. Perhaps the problem you’ve been running into is because you have been praying to Zeus.

            You must have changed your mind about having to live morally 100% of the time. Either that or maybe you are not an atheist. One of us is confused, and I know that it is not me.

            BTW, I wouldn’t look to you for enlightenment–even if you were capable of it. So don’t concern yourself with that issue. Go back to your hole, troll.

          • La Sombra

            @D Parri: morals are derived from “the golden
            rule”, standards of behavior set and modeled as a socially accepted
            norm. Some may also refer to the golden
            rule as ‘the ten commandments’ although not all of the ten commandments are
            part of the golden rule and vise versa.
            So it is possible to live an ethical and moral life without being a
            christian

          • D Parri

            Again.

            I certainly don’t have a problem with that.

            What confused me with TBB’s comment was where he stated that “Atheists have to act morally 100% of the time…”, a fact that doesn’t seem to hold water.

            I believe that history teaches us that there are some atheists who have not lived by the “golden rule”.

          • La Sombra

            @D Parri: morals are derived from ‘the golden rule’, standards of behavior set and modeled as a socially accepted norm. Some may also refer to the golden rule as ‘the ten commandments’ although not all of the commandments are part of the golden rule and vise versa. So it is possible to live an ethical and moral life without being a christian.

          • D Parri

            One more time.

            I certainly don’t have a problem with that.

            What confused me with TBB’s comment was where he stated that “Atheists have to act morally 100% of the time…”, a fact that doesn’t seem to hold water.

            I believe that history teaches us that there are some atheists who have not lived by the “golden rule”.

          • Censored Guest

            @D Parri: morals are derived from ‘the golden rule’, standards of behavior set and modeled as a socially accepted norm. Some may also refer to the golden rule as ‘the ten commandments’ although not all of the commandments are part of the golden rule and vise versa. So it is possible to live an ethical and moral life without being a christian.

          • D Parri

            The trolls are out in numbers today.

            One more time.

            I certainly don’t have a problem with that.

            What confused me with TBB’s comment was where he stated that “Atheists have to act morally 100% of the time…”, a fact that doesn’t seem to hold water.

            I believe that history teaches us that there are some atheists who have not lived by the “golden rule”.

          • D Parri

            Please excuse my vulgar language. I guess trolls like you just bring things like that out of people sometimes.

            So, out of respect of your being an atheist, please, when it is convenient for you, go to a location of your own choosing and perform self-fornication with a very rusty and very blunt instrument for a minimum of three hours.

            And don’t misunderstand me, please, you are not my enemy.

          • Integrity

            Do you realize how absurd this statement is? Rich Democrat – good. Rich Republican – Evil. Have you ever analyzed how the Kennedys amassed and protected their fortune? Obviously not. If you do not feel as though you are paying enough taxes, I will be more than glad to provide you with the address where you can send your check to the Government. QED

          • Tim Bertram Black

            Yeah, that is a really stupid and absurd statement! Glad that I didn’t say it.
            I’m PROUD to be an America. I’m PROUD to pay my taxes — every last one of ‘em… we used to be a country that had common ground… hate radio/tv has brainwashed you folks.

            Reagan couldn’t be elected dogcather in today’s environment — he was left of 90% of our lawmakers today.

            You’ve won! Be happy… Cliven Bundy doesn’t have to pay… why? He don’t wanna…

          • Integrity

            You ignored my point. Not surprising. QED

          • Tim Bertram Black

            I didn’t make that absurd comment — you did. So, how can I take you seriously? “Integrity”, huh?
            I’m no fan of Joe Kennedy and what he did — is that your meme of the moment?

          • Integrity

            It appears that I was unclear. Your sentence, “True, liberals don’t mind paying their fair share — so of course the highest taxes will come from rich democrats” is absurd. You gave a one-sided partisan argument. I gave you an example that disproves your statement. I could easily give you more. QED

          • Tim Bertram Black

            There’s bad apples on both sides — I was speaking generally…
            Generally speaking:
            liberals == proud to be americans and pay taxes
            conservatives == cliven bundy… would rather literally KILL americans than pay what they owe
            That’s always been the dialog… conservatives whining about paying their fair share … and liberals happy to pay their fair share.

          • Integrity

            I think there will be a lot of dissenting opinions on how you chose to “generalize” things. I have never once witnessed anyone paying any more in taxes than what was absolutely required by law. Most people begrudgingly pay their taxes. QED

          • Tim Bertram Black

            Wow… this is one of the stupidest conversations I’ve had in a long time. You are dead to me now. Take a logic class or something.

          • Integrity

            I doubt that since there is the possibility that you have like-minded friends. By the way, I have not yet voiced my opinion regarding Mr. Bundy one way or the other. You have made some assumptions which are not true. You hurt my feelings, but I forgive you. QED

          • Observer

            If people ignored Timmy, he’d get bored and go away. He is the poster child of the liberal education system. Totally brainwashed and incapable of actual critical thinking.

          • Dr. Phil

            I agree, this guy is over the top. There is no reason to try to discuss anything with someone who continually calls people names, perpetrates misinformation and won’t argue rationally. I didn’t think there’d be someone more annoying than Legal Eagle, but this character is worse. I’m not sure he believes half of what he says, he just likes to see what kind of response he’ll get to his craziness. Just ignore the kid. He’s probably home alone and bored. Maybe his mommy will come home and make him some cookies.

          • Integrity

            I agree. Impossible to have a rational discussion with this one. I have no issue with someone being an atheist. I do wonder why some atheists find it necessary to go out of their way to poke people with religion in the proverbial eye. Very sad that he claims to be the “enlightened” adult when his rantings display the actions of an immature child. I find being dead to him quite comforting. QED

          • mcveen

            Again, what is my fair share of income tax? I’ve paid 40-50% almost my entire life, while low & high earners pay nothing. What in hell is fair about that?

            I’ve also worked 60-90 hours a week. I probably should follow the gov’t plan- coze up here in ‘da crib wi’ my horney li’l homey and enjoy life. But, but,……….. who’s gonna pay my taxes?

          • Tim Bertram Black

            Good lord! Ayn Rand??? Really???
            Do what your poster boy does: just don’t pay what you owe… simple? It is always you people on the right who whine and moan about paying taxes. Welcome to Earth… let me show you around.
            Are there issues at the low end of the socio-economic spectrum?? Of course there are — but it is a trifling compared to the taxes avoided by corporations and the ultra-rich who have representation in congress…
            The socio-economic issue needs to be handled innovatively — there are solutions. But not with “I’m taking all my marbles and going home” republicans.
            Really, if you are that upset — just don’t pay your taxes then threaten to kill Americans if they try to get them from you… That’s what Cliven did… and you people are CHEERING HIM On!
            You aren’t a taker… you just want to be a taker… that’s just as bad in my book: grow up… grow a spine and stand up like a real man.

          • Ron F

            McVeen, I agree who gets to decide on what a fair share is. I disagree with your comment regarding high earners. The top 10% of earners pay 71% of taxes while earning 45% of the income. They are paying taxes. I think their fair share would be 45% of the income taxes. In an earlier comment, I asked Mr. Black to define what he thinks “fair share” is but he has declined to do so. Somewhere along the line people started talking about the rich paying their fair share and it became a sound bite.

          • Jeff Webb

            Sorry to break it to you junior, but as soon as the microphone’s off and the camera crews leave, liberals shirk their taxpaying duties more than anybody else.

            Maybe you can try selling this b.s. to your friends at recess.

          • Ron F

            What rich Republican taker is living off of taxpayers an how? In addition who gets to decide what a fair share is? The top 10% of income earners pay 71% of all income taxes but earn only 45% of the income. Do you want them to pay all of the income taxes. When you factor in other taxes they pay even a greater percentage of taxes. Since you think they are not paying their fair share, what percentage should they pay?

          • batorsin

            You are kidding, of course. And the rich Democrats who pay $30,000 to have dinner with Obama are not takers???

          • Tim Bertram Black

            If they got it by ripping off the government — say, by not paying fees for grazing on public land for 20 years. — then they too would be takers.
            Cliven Bundy is the poster child for conservative politics. He just don’t speak all pretty… like, say, Larry Craig… another toe-tappin’ poster child for hypocrit politics… or George W. Bush who said the lesson of Vietnam was “if you quit, you lose”… And you people still defend that knave.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            I thought I replied to this already… if they got it by scamming the government out of what they owe, then yes… they are takers.
            The supreme court handed our elections over to corporations foreign and domestic… 30k won’t get you a postcard anymore.
            That’s what you get for electing dubya twice: Sam Alito and Roberts. Sayonara to the people having any say.

    • Ron F

      I am not sure that being a racist necessarily means that a person is mean.

      • Peace

        Racism is mean spirited. I should have said that he does not strike me as being mean spirited.

        • Ron F

          Peace, I agree that being a racist does not make a person mean. If the person acts on the racism, the person is being mean. I had a Staff Sergeant in the Army who was a racist and incredibly fair. Maybe in civilian life he would be different. I do not think Mr. Bundy was branded a racist for using the term “negro” I think he was branded a racist for the content of his comments.

  • Seattle Sam

    It’s interesting that so many people who condoned murder,
    torture and revolutionary activity when the Panthers were doing it in the 60s
    are now indignant at a white rancher resisting “The Man”.

    • sjangers

      It’s a different “Man”, Sam.

    • Spencer

      Not at all comparative. After I served in the Army, I returned to college in 1968 to find the Panthers active on and off campus. I had classes and discussions with the most militant of them. Believe me, the issues then and now are totally different.

      • Peace

        The same thing happened to me at my university, Spencer. The Panthers were supported by a lot of white people, too. There was a lot of sympathy for African-Americans in those days. And while the issues today are not the same as they were 45 years ago, the liberals and the race-baiters will use whatever situation they can to create controversy. And the quickest way to discredit and silence a person is by branding them a “racist.”

    • Ron F

      But aren’t the same people who screamed about the Occupy movement now condoning what Mr. Bundy is doing?

  • gkrueger

    My head is shaking Bernie. You are the quintessential player. You must be quite uncomfortable straddling that fence. I look forward to your many rants to come calling out “stupid” hard left heroes. How about you start with Al Sharpton.
    He makes Clive look like a professor.

  • buckrodgers

    White liberals have a problem with race, they don’t seem to mind using race when their applying for their jobs, or choosing to live in a all white neighborhood instead of one that’s integrated and you can bet that they take full advantage of the so called benefits benefits bestowed on white Europeans living in America, liberals like to accuse other white Americans of being racist, then excuse their own prejudices because they care, so what does the words used by Bundy have anything to do with what’s happening to him in Nevada, did anybody care when Tom Hanks stood idly by when a white man wearing a blackface and afro joined him on stage, when he was doing a benefit show at his kids all white school, are the executives at CBS bigots when they choose Steven Colbert who was criticized for making some inappropriate comments against African Americans, while he was working at Comedy Central, to replace David Letterman on the tonight show, CBS could of chose a African American, Hispanic or women to fill a slot that’s already dominated by white males, if liberals accuse white Americans of being racist does that make white liberals who take full advantage of their skin color a bunch of closet racist, running away from race will not detour the left from using it against people they disagree with, even though they live their personal lives as a bigot.

    • Icansee4miles

      White Liberals have a problem with RACISTS; as should all GOOD AMERICANS!! TBGRS should leave the U.S.A. and join Russia’s PUTIN, because they are cut out of the SAME RACIST CLOTH!!

      • Hyperbolic Dumbass

        YOU USED THE T-WORD! RACIST!

      • Jeff Webb

        Uhh, no, your crap ain’t gonna fly, snookums.
        Try capitalizing more words–maybe that’ll make it true.

  • JHS

    As much as I like Berny, he mis-characterized Bundy’s comment about slavery. I don’t subscribe to Bundy’s statement, but at least understand that he thinks actual slavery isn’t much different from the state of dependency in which so many black Americans find themselves today.

    Bundy would do well to avoid this topic, given that it has nothing to do with his personal situation, but those who comment on it ought to get his position correct.

    • smorkingapple

      “at least understand that he thinks actual slavery isn’t much different from the state of dependency in which so many black Americans find themselves today.”

      You do realize the utter stupidity of that statement right? Like seriously, you’re arguing that being a slave was somewhat similar to simply being poor and facing structural opposition to advancement. Which one would you prefer?

      Should a prisoner held hostage by a terrorist prefer at least having shelter over his head and maybe a meal a day while being tortured or being free but homeless, poor and in the desert somewhere?

      Please tell me you do and you just don’t care. It’ll restore my faith in humanity.

      You also realize more white people are on welfare than blacks right? You know that’s a fact?

      • Hyperbolic Dumbass

        Duhhhh. Are there really more wite peepl in this country? Duhhhh. Man, I din’t no that! Duhhhh, wow! Thanx man.

        • smorkingapple

          Always happy to educate the ignorant.

          • Hyplerbolic Dumbass

            Duhhhhh. Us stouped rite wyngers out here in the stix reely need yur hep. Hope i can figur out how to send this mesugge. I wish i had yur smrts.

      • Jeff Webb

        >>You also realize more white people are on welfare than blacks right? You know that’s a fact?<<

        Yes. Do you realize this is because there are millions more white people than black people in America? Do you know that the percentage of the black population on welfare is staggeringly higher than that of the white one?

    • Tim Ned

      Bundy categorized Back America because he drove though Las Vegas once. Come on; this guy’s a nut.

      • Hyperbolic Dumbass

        Check out the long version of the video and you’ll get better context, if you keep an open mind.

        • Tim Ned

          I haven’t watched it but I will. Thanks.

    • Ron F

      And how insulting is it to compare slavery to the welfare state? Bundy’s comment is not mis-characterized.

  • Josh

    This confuses me, honestly.

    According to many of my right-wing friends and acquaintances, this government overreaching has been going on for a very long time, with countless examples of how rules, regulations and bureaucracy has crippled the everyday American. And I happen to agree that government is too damn big and powerful.

    Yet Cliven Bundy is being treated by many as if he’s a one-in-a-million shining example that needs to be carried around triumphantly like Caesar on a golden chair to use as a martyr for out of control government.

    I get dizzy thinking about this. Seriously. Find somebody else to carry your torch!

    All I hear all day, every single day, from my right-wing friends is how they’re mischaracterized as racists and bigots and backward-thinking ignoramuses by leftists with their communist visions whose number-one goal is to follow Alinsky’s rules to marginalize and malign them as people. But the folks still clinging to Bundy like he’s Ben Hawkins the healer from Carnivale don’t seem to realize that the same rules they put forth for judging someone like Obama also applies to them.

    I understand that Backing Bundy isn’t a universal play on the right, and that many have already tossed him under the bus with the quickness. But for those of you hanging on, it seems as if your political radar doesn’t blip normally.

    You’ll figure it out one day. It’ll be too late, but eventually you’ll get it.

    • legal eagle

      You are mistaken…..According to Conservative ideologues, Government overreach only occurs when a Democrat is in the White House…..LOL

      • sjangers

        It’s moments like this when I start to think you’re confused, Eagle. Republicans are generally somewhat distrustful of government. That unease may increase when Democrats- the party of activist government- control the reigns of power, but the sentiment always has a prominent place in the philosophy of most Republicans.

        • legal eagle

          Philosophy aside, it appears that conservatives distrust government a lot more when a Dem is in the White House….Therefore, the “distrust” is selective and hypocritical…

          • Jeff Webb

            Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact that liberals are less trustworthy.

          • mcveen

            Damned right you are! Especially when the occupants are rabid socialists like michelle & barry. Socialism as a governing philosophy has failed everywhere its been tried.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Let me guess. You probably haven’t noticed that liberals distrust government a lot more when a Republican is in the White House, huh?

          • sjangers

            Not at all, Eagle. Republicans have a general distrust of big government that can be aggravated by circumstances. It certainly isn’t selective or hypocritical.

            Think of it as owning a Bugatti Veyron. It’s a lot more car than you ever wanted, but your wife insisted. And there’s no way you can afford a second car with that Veyron’s monthly payment, maintenance costs, insurance premiums, and the way it inhales gas- so you have to live with it. The power of the car makes you very nervous, but most of the time you can keep it under control.

            Now consider how you feel about the Veyron when your sixteen-year-old son wants to borrow the car. That’s how Republicans feel about big government when Democrats get their hands on the wheel.

          • legal eagle

            If Republicans need a ideological bogeymen to rail against so be it…It’s called politics….This has been going on since before the civil war and, at he end of the day, is empty rhetoric…
            I see by the reaction to Goldberg’s column that there are many on the right who need a fictitious “bad guy” to take out their hostilities and anger against….Much easier politically to appeal to voters anger and prejudices than dealing with issues and policy…

          • sjangers

            I’m not sure why you’re so dismissive of railing against ideological bogeymen. As John, Jeff and McVeen point out below, the Democrats do exactly the same thing.

            When Republicans are in power, Democrats have similar complaints to those that Republicans express today. They don’t want the overwhelming strength of big government thrown behind efforts to advance conservative agendas. Democrats built the beast and understand just how dangerous it can be in the “wrong” hands.

            It isn’t a bogeyman but a real ideological concern being addressed by the Republican complaints against big government. It’s part of a philosophical contest that’s been going on, in various forms, since the earliest days of the Republic. There has always been one party concerned with limiting the size and scope of government, and another party that advocates for a more activist government. Generally, the more conservative party has been sensitive to the concerns of Washington, Jefferson and Madison about the dangers of putting too much power in the hands of government.

            As government has grown into the bloated monster that we have today it has become increasingly less responsive to the needs of the people and more concerned with its own needs. Because people have allowed themselves to become so dependent on large government we all are now, in many respects, stuck with this powerful institution that is becoming more our master and much less our servant.

            That’s at least part of the reason that many conservatives have become so hysterical about any growth in the reach and power of government. And that concern becomes deeper when Democrats- the present party of big government- are in control. Conservative know that Democrats will always be looking for ways to feed the monster, and they’re quite certain that what the monster really needs is to go on a diet.

            We need to be concerned about issues and policy, but it’s even more important to consider not just what needs attention but how we address that need. In fact, ‘how’ is really the most critical question once you’ve identified the need; and I mean ‘how’ in the broadest sense. So the conservatives’ focus on government size and scope is actually a very important part of addressing your issues and developing policies.

            Absent a thorough national debate on the role of the federal government- perhaps even a Constitutional convention to consider questions about the form our government should take in order to meet the needs of the people in the early Twenty-Frist Century- we will continue to have factions addressing their concerns about our government in ad hoc fashion. That’s both part of practical politics and an aspect of politics on a much broader scale. I don’t understand why you’re so dismissive of those considerations.

          • Integrity

            Philosophy aside, it appears that liberals distrust government a lot more when a Repub is in the White House….Therefore, the “distrust” is selective and hypocritical… Any more softballs? QED

    • mcveen

      Get what?

      • Josh

        Not everything in the world is an us-vs.-them culture war where a with-us-or-against-us mentality is clung to like grim death.

        Not every disagreement with political foes has to become this I’ll-martyr-myself principle of maximum important where folks seem to want to force their own revolution through a self-fulfilling prophecy.

        That “enemy of my enemy” stuff is best for movies, novels and folks who like to exaggerate story deets. It should come with one of those warning labels.

        And, most important of all, locking one’s self into an increasingly narrowing niche isn’t exactly a winning political strategy.

  • Chris Matthewson

    Bundy and his demented followers and very much like Fox News and many of its demented viewers: Bullies who distort facts under the false guise of patriotism.

    Now, count the number of racist, stupid, paranoiac and anti-Obama comments made herein in response to Bernie’s obvious observation!

  • Iowa48

    Bernie is probably right about Bundy being a dipshidiot who was in the wrong on not paying grazing fees, and his views on African-Americans are apparently racist and ill-considered. What is frightening though is the inevitability of this confrontation.
    Americans are seeing a complete erosion of the rule of law, with the federal government and the administration being the chief scofflaws. Starting with Fast & Furious, followed by targeting of AP and Fox reporters, ignoring of immigration laws, fraudulent spending by GSA and the VA, political targeting by the IRS, lying to Congress about Benghazi and the NSA, sidestepping the Constitution by executive fiat, outright fraud in Obamacare exacerbated by the unlawful legislatively amending it from the Oval Office, and on and on. And worst of all is a lawless Attorney General and DOJ that lawlessly stonewalls and ignores the peoples’ representatives in Congress.
    So when the BLM sent armed SWAT teams in to seize cattle, when they could have simply placed a lien on Bundy’s property, it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, rankling many Americans. It was more about how the BLM approached the problem, with an display of force that was not commensurate with the issue, more than whether Bundy was in the right. It’s a civil issue that did not need to be militarized, particularly by a government with such total disdain and lack of respect for the rule of law in every other area. The BLM’s militarized response was a bridge too far, an inevitable confrontation by an arrogant government that has forgotten that it is accountable to its citizenry, a government that has forgotten that it is just as subject to the rule of law as the citizens are subject to the rule of law..
    It’s frightening to think that this will likely not be the last confrontation, and I think we all can see it getting tragically out of hand at some point. Bundy is just a cypher, a non-entity compared to the real issue of an ever more tyrannically out-of-control and lawless government.

    • editedforbias

      Thank you, some reason that Bernie and most do not seems to get. Straw/Camel. The same reason why the Tea Party exploded during Obama’s first term. That MAJORITY of Americans see government as the problem. THIS is just another proof point that gets people out of their chairs.

      I too wish people (even our politicians) could articulate the issues and explain the frustration as well as you did. Maybe then we could have something to vote FOR get more than half the people to vote to save the country.

      Reminds me of another “Straw that broke the Camels back story”, back in 1770’s a group of people were being procecuted by their government. They had tried the legal process, but the bureaucracy was set up to force them to fail. They finally wrote a strongly worded letter and all signed it. You might want to read the entirety of that letter…The Declaration of Independence. It might help you understand why some simply have reached then end of this burdensome overreaching and tainted system of “law”.

      Bernie and his crowd are Benedict Arnold. Angry at the government for it’s overreach but unwilling to go far enough to make a lasting change. King George passed laws too, changed the rules after the game had begun. They all dealt with it for decades until a few said, your laws no longer not apply to us and we will ignore them. King George came with guns to stop that in it’s tracks too. It got a bit out of hand. I am hopeful, that this government (still partially of the people) will stand down but as you stated they are ALL-IN.

      This is the road they chose and many believe this was always the desired outcome. Read back to the NSA categorization of domestic terrorist. Here he is. They want and need a higher level conflict to complete their mission before the will of the people turns against them. Do we stand down? Does the election begin to change things?

      Many players have a chance to stop this escalation but I don’t believe it will be the ranchers, the Federal government or the media excited on both sides for “news”. Does the state exhibit any backbone and stand up for it’s rights? Those NV representatives, senators and state officials are the ones with the actual legal power to change the playing field. But they too are afraid of the power of the Federal bureaucracy and the impact on their careers. That is why we fail. This is where we (the people) failed.

  • Topnife

    The Bundy story needs to be understood, not as a sudden turn to a life of crime, but in the context of government dealing with the ordinary citizen, much as it once dealt with the American Indian: make a deal, then renege on it and then
    either ignore it, or declare it null and void, when some bureaucrat sees a
    chance to enlarge his personal empire.

    Bundy’s forefathers settled 140 years ago what is incontrovertibly a desolate and barren landscape, encouraged then by the Feds of that era with promises of unrestricted grazing.

    Raising a cow in that environment needs about 1000 acres of scrubby land
    to provide forage. The Bundys actually own property for a modest sized ranch, insufficient by itself to support a productive cattle herd, or to provide income for a family, but were given grazing rights to many thousands of acres, that made their enterprise possible.

    It’s not clear when the government decided that they owed money for their grazing rights, nor when Bundy decided not to pay for them. What is clear is that the BLM suddenly became more solicitous of the welfare of turtles than of cattle, no doubt in response to the political clout of “environmentalists” (none
    of whom would dream of actually visiting the desolation where Mr. Bundy raised
    his children), and arbitrarily withdrew Bundy’s access to the grazing rights
    for many thousands of acres, as they had apparently done to some 50 other
    ranchers who have now given up hope for their future, and gone out of
    business.

    Mr. Bundy is a loutish old man, who perhaps harbors some vaguely racist sentiments about how one should actually work for a living, like by herding cattle in the burning sun all day. He is also a man who can live and prosper in a place where most of us would rapidly die of hunger, if not of thirst. He has fallen victim to bureaucrats in three-piece suits, holding meetings in air-conditioned conference rooms, who have decided that this type of self-sufficient and proud American should no longer exist, because he is an obstacle to their quest for power.

    I disagree.

  • Franklyn Douglas

    Why can’t the right just simply……” We got it wrong. We supported a guy who’s legal argument had no leg to stand on. And he also happens to be a ignorant possibly racially insensitive throwback to the bad old days”. Then move on to the next subject. But sadly that’s not what I’m seeing on this thread and to me a black conservative…..that’s really sad.

    • Tim Ned

      As a white conservative Franklyn I accepted the fact early on that this guy was breaking the law. It appeared to me that the federal government was granting him grazing rights, he just wasn’t paying. But I have to admit, I really didn’t follow this case. As an independent business man, I have the right to pursue people who owe me money through the court system. If I win a judgment, I have the right to locate banks accounts and seize the amount owed. This isn’t easy. However, I do not have the right to pursue recovery of my debt through armed aggression. I believe our government should be the shining example of law. The government has a right for armed confrontation based upon circumstances. But collecting a debt? I don’t buy it.

      As for Bundy, he’s an idiot. And he’s probably too dumb to realize he’s an old-school racist.

  • JBubs

    Nice red herring Bernie, but stick to issue. By the way, if you read Bundy’s words carefully he did NOT say Negroes would be better off as slaves. He is saying that being dependent on welfare is enslavement that is likely worse than enslavement to pick cotton because at least there is dignity in work. Same condition. Different plantation. Got it?

    • Ryan Nichols

      That’s what I got from his words as well. Although it’s the use of the word “negro” that taints what ever point he had no matter how valid.

      • POS

        The Latino and Latina words Negro and Negra mean black man and black woman. I have never understood why it is wrong to call a black man Black when it is alright to call a white man White.

        • JBubs

          Good observation, POS! See my reply above to Ryan.

        • Ryan Nichols

          I don’t understand that either. I grew up playing basketball in many inner-cities around the southeast. I was the only white kid on the team. My teammates and I had great relationships so I learned a lot during that time. But i played in some all black gymnasiums, and I know what it feels like to be unwelcome. If I had a nickel for every time I was called white boy.. Now I’m not saying I dealt with lots of racism, but I was made to feel out of place because of my race a couple times.

          So I absolutely believe there’s a double standard in what’s acceptable. I talked to my teammates about it, they explained how many blacks feel it’s not racist because it’s the way they’ve always spoke. And many blacks just don’t trust white people, with the civil rights movement not far in the mirror.

      • JBubs

        Ryan, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using “negro”, which simply means “black”as POS points out. Why not then frown upon using “Nigeria” (land of the Black) or “denigrate” (to blacken)? This is PC Marxist crap. It must be rejected. As Orwell pointed out, those who are allowed to control language control thought.

      • gkrueger

        You are right. Negro is so much more demeaning than cracker.
        Everyone should get off their high horses and recognize that we are all products of our environment. We, as a society, make excuses all day long for the underprivileged. Clive was obviously not college educated and maybe was working the ranch in lieu of high school. Elites run screaming at a comment like this, however, they always opt to throw money at a minority problem as opposed to getting in the trenches with the underprivileged to help dig them out.

    • Josh

      If that’s what someone got from it, then it is what it is. But it’s not like people are reaching to call it racist, bigoted, ignorant, or whatever else folks are saying in criticism of it. If you drop lines like ” because they never learned how to pick cotton,” that sounds incredibly racist.

      What in the heck is this guy’s point that he couldn’t make another way without saying things in such an inflammatory fashion, if in fact he isn’t a racist?

      Why not say “Being dependent on welfare is enslavement” rather than what he said? That’s too highbrow or learned for poor ol’ Cliven?

      Personally, I’m sick of using the Obama-supporter standard to judge what someone says. Why can’t everyone just judge what someone says rather than dissecting it for maybe-possibly-kinda-sorta-if-you-twist-it-this-way points?

      • JBubs

        Let’s just say that he doesn’t have great command of English. But he got his point across!

        • Josh

          What’s his native tongue?

          • JBubs

            Right now it looks like it had better be Remington.

          • D Parri

            Remington it is.

    • D Parri

      Or…..same plantation, different generation.

  • allen goldberg

    Bernie..really missed on this one. The really stupid man here..is YOU sir. From one Goldberg to another. Dare you to ask why……

    • legal eagle

      Hopefully Bernie doesn’t have you as a relative……

  • M&M

    His choice of words to describe a litteral fact that, not only blacks, but people of all races are becoming accustom to being “slaves” of the government dole is regretable and unfortunately this administration is encouraging the lifestyle.

    • legal eagle

      Don’t want to encourage those shiftless lazy, minority, welfare recipients from getting off the government dole….

      • Jeff Webb

        How many times do we have to tell you to keep your racism to yourself?

      • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

        Another racist rant from legal eagle. Get help.

  • Peace

    Seems to me that Bundy and his off the cuff remarks have become a straw man to indict all conservatives as stupid racists, which we are not. But now we are on the defensive, which is where the liberals and their friends in the media need us to be.

  • Nicholas344

    Bernie wrote: “So, my all ideologically pure, hard right, friends, that is your hero — a man who in 2014 wonders if “Negroes” would be better off as slaves.
    As usual Bernie is just being naïve. It is the same mentality that believes American citizens were unworthy of and too stupid to demand proof of Obama’s eligibility.
    Bundy made a point that is so obvious one wonders how it can be missed other than as a result of progressive indoctrination. Bundy agrees that slavery is wrong but is astute enough to realize that the government hass made psychological slaves of many black people simply to get votes. This is the slave master mentality and the desired relationship of drug pushers and their addicted slaves.
    This is what the progressive government has done. It has made psychological slaves of people now dependent on the government. Bundy is saying that the real battle is between those believing in the benefits of freedom and those seeking to be slave masters as the government is doing now to seek power. Race is not the issue. The issue is the ideal of freedom America was founded upon vs. statist slavery, the ideal of our current government’s philosophy.
    Bundy is on the side of freedom. Harry Reid is on the side of slavery. I’ll support Bundy and you’ll support addiction to statist slavery. We’ve made our choices

    • legal eagle

      You’ll support a bigot because you agree with him….

      • ifihadahifi

        So is he a bigot because he used the word “negro” or because he stated the obvious ?

      • Nicholas344

        I support the struggle for freedom as opposed to surrendering to statist slavery.
        There is physical slavery we know. There is also psychological slavery the statist philosophy seeks to impose on American citizens. It is the slavery of psychological dependence on government.
        Bundy is bright enough to appreciate the dangers of slavery from psychological dependence. You are not.

      • Integrity

        You should read a book written by Larry Elder. It might enlighten you. QED

    • gkrueger

      Star Parker totally gets your point and working diligently to make a correction. Need to get on her bandwagon and donate to her cause.

      http://www.urbancure.org/

  • Blakely1

    I get some personal satisfaction in seeing an aggressive Federal Government,
    which is overstepping its power get some push back.IMO, Bundy is like
    Rock Hudson’s character in ” Giant”. He needs some help in getting along
    with the changing world.
    We have been idly sitting back allowing Obama to overstep his power &
    abuse the Constitution. I am sick of our lack of response & the ineptitude of our own leaders in Congress. For each confrontation, they should have a shared,
    prepared plan.as do the Democrats.
    Individuals, winging it, isn’t working.
    Senators need to lose some ego & plan for the country. Stop with the
    headline hunting announcements & work together.
    We need to revive Jefferson’s Spirit of Resistance in a planned &
    smart way.

    • Tim Bertram Black

      Rock’s character in Giant wasn’t a taker.
      Bundy is a taker …. gimme gimme gimme.

  • ted

    At least right or wrong Bundy is standing up to the Progressive man. No one else is. No company CEOs, not Congress people, not most pundents. And certainly not you, Bernie. The liberals have set up the Republicans to lose November and you, O’Reilly, Hannity, Rove…non of you have a clue.

    • KStrett

      Do you think pointing a riffle at a Federal agent helps or hurts conservatives?

      Do you think saying black people would have been better off as slaves helps or hurts conservatives?

      • Tim Bertram Black

        Conservatives need no help hurting themselves. They are wrong on every issue.

        • Hyperbolic Dumbass

          Yes, and you admire your own completely open mind!

        • KStrett

          Actually, it is the other way around. This is why democrats avoid the substance of political issues and engage in ad hominem attacks and regurgitate bumper sticker slogans.

          • La Sombra

            Actually . . . BOTH political parties, AND their devotees, engage in ad hominem attacks AND avoid the substance of political issues.

          • KStrett

            Is the statement Republicans are anti-science an example of an ad hominem attack?

            Is the statement Republicans are anti-science an example of avoiding the substance of political issues.

          • La Sombra

            Yes . . . and, yes.

          • La Sombra

            Yes . . . and, yes. Replace the word ‘Republicans’ with any political party of your choice, and it will still be an example of an ad hominem attack.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            I mean. Republicans ARE anti-science…. so. I think we can take that into account when discussing things with them. That is kooky. I think it isn’t ad hominem.

          • KStrett

            The contention Republicans ARE anti-science is the text book definition of the ad hominem logical fallacy……You just proved my point.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            It isn’t ad hominem because being “anti-science” is relevant.
            You may argue that not ALL republicans are anti-science… and that is true… but it is the republican party’s welcoming tent to which the vastest vast majority of anti-science/religous right people flock. And there, they influence the party platform with their lunacy.
            Republicans own those albatrosses. Just like they own Cliven now.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            It isn’t ad hominem because being “anti-science” is relevant.
            You may argue that not ALL republicans are anti-science… and that is true… but it is the republican party’s welcoming tent to which the vastest vast majority of anti-science/religous right people flock. And there, they influence the party platform with their lunacy.
            Republicans own those albatrosses. Just like they own Cliven now.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            It isn’t ad hominem because being “anti-science” is relevant.
            You may argue that not ALL republicans are anti-science… and that is true… but it is the republican party’s welcoming tent to which the vastest vast majority of anti-science/religous right people flock.
            And there, they are welcomed to influence the party platform with their “ideas”.
            Republicans own those albatrosses. Just like they own Cliven now.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            It isn’t ad hominem because being “anti-science” is relevant.
            You may argue that not ALL republicans are anti-science… and that is true… but it is the republican party’s welcoming tent to which the vastest vast majority of anti-science/religous right people flock. And there, they influence the party platform with their lunacy.
            Republicans own those albatrosses. Just like they own Cliven now.

          • KStrett

            You are simply attacking a group of people with an insult and offering no argument or point. You are are using the text book definition of the ad hominem logical fallacy.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            Repubs represent the anti-science pro-myth kooks (FACT)… so, anything republicans say or stand for is suspect b/c they have to appear anti-science and pro-myth or else lose those voters. Being anti-science and anti-reality is very germain to any discussion of their views. Being anti-reality is RELEVANT to the conversation, thus it is NOT an ad hominem attack.
            It is like, why would the IRS want to focus on Tea Party organizations? Well, because the Tea Party’s #1 gripe is they hate paying taxes… so OF COURSE the IRS should watch them like a hawk. Calling tea partiers “people who hate paying taxes” is germain/relevant to the discussion, so it isn’t ad hominem.

          • KStrett

            That is not a fact at all and you are making the ad hominem logical fallacy. In fact that is all you seem to do.

            I assume you are talking about the Christian view that the earth is 6000-10,0000 years old. Not all Christians hold that belief.

            Because Christians generally don’t vote for democrats which is due to the democrat party’s stance on abortion, the republican party is anti-science because some christian believe the earth is 6000 years old?

            You might want to think twice about throwing stones in glass houses. You are making a straw-man argument, which is yet another logical fallacy.

            “Well, because the Tea Party’s #1 gripe is they hate paying taxes”

            Here is another straw-man. That is not the tea party’s position.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            test

          • Tim Bertram Black

            I can’t post a response.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            I can respond to you for some reason… I’m cool with that.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            It isn’t ad hominem because being “anti-science” is relevant.
            You may argue that not ALL republicans are anti-science… and that is true… but it is the republican party’s welcoming tent to which the vastest vast majority of anti-science/religous right people flock. And there, they influence the party platform with their lunacy.
            Republicans own those albatrosses. Just like they own Cliven now

          • Tim Bertram Black

            It isn’t ad hominem because being “anti-science” is relevant.
            You may argue that not ALL republicans are anti-science… and that is true… but it is the republican party’s welcoming tent to which the vastest vast majority of anti-science/religous right people flock. And there, they influence the party platform with their lunacy.
            Republicans own those albatrosses. Just like they own Cliven now.

    • gkrueger
  • ted

    So you. Bernie, like most Republicans are playing on the Progressive playing field. I would guess getting raped by charismatic black men, being left alone with kids IS NOT better than getting raped by a white man who owns you. They both beat the woman. Slaves had others with whom to commiserate. They did get food, probably easier than getting food stamps. While I have no clue about either, and it must be hard being owned, I think being a vulnerable black girl is about as bad. Now, I can’t get fired from Social Security and you can get fired I suppose for doing anything but blasting my words. And it is the mindset you have for the reason Republicans have been losing for nearly 100 years. And why America’s freedom is numbered and not in decades.

    • Tim Bertram Black

      Give republicans their due: they’ve done a lot to ruin our country… Medicare Part D, 2 wars off the books, etc. Trillions wasted. Reagan spent us into doom fighting a paper tiger that didn’t exist.

  • KStrett

    1. Why does Bernie assume all “conservative purists” hold Bundy up as a hero?

    I am 100% positive Bernie would label me as a conservative purist and I was cringing the majority of the time Bundy opened his mouth. Why was I cringing?

    Because Bundy is not a very articulate person and was either wording things wrong so he could be easily misconstrued or he really meant them. Either way isn’t good.

    2. Even if the FEDs are completely wrong. It is not a good idea to be waving guns around back at them. This is bad from a tactical point of view and from a media optics point of view.

    They aren’t going to win a a gun battle with the FEDs and the media is not going to give you favorable treatment to begin with. Waving guns around just provides the media with ammunition against you. It is to easy for them to set the narative racists red necks with guns when there are people waving guns back at the Feds.

    3. Should the BLM send a swat team with snipers over a dispute over grazing fees with a rancher? NO! Even if Bundy is a racist this is still wrong.

    4. Are there 9 million regulations that the government is using to harass ranchers because for whatever reason they want the land? Yes!

    In one case, the government literally gave a rancher a fine because there was a missing nail in the fence. The amount of fencing leads me to believe that someone in the government removed the nail rather than checked every inch of fencing.

    Does it change anything if the owner is a racist? No.

    • Ryan Nichols

      I’m watching fox news right now. And have watched earlier this afternoon. . And they have been talking about it. Not wall to wall like msnbc. No surprise there. If Bundy discovered the cure for cancer you can bet msnbc would ignore him. But now he said something stupid he’s “breaking news”

      But yes fox has been extremely critical of him today. But everything else you said. Spot on.

      • KStrett

        I haven’t watched TV today so obviously I wouldn’t know what FOX has been reporting. Also, It could be that FOX was trying to verify that Bundy made the comments.

      • Chris Matthewson

        If Bundy discovered the cure for cancer it would have to be colon cancer and only because he has been closely examining the bowels of his cattle for many years.

        He is a cancer on the body politic.

    • Tim Bertram Black

      I can’t find that case where a rancher was fined because there was a missing nail in a fence. Could you forward me a couple of the thousands of articles that would have been written about this event?
      You said “literally”, too.

      • Hyperbolic Dumbass

        You can’t? I thought you thought you are a genius!

        • Tim Bertram Black

          In all honesty, I cannot. I can’t even find urban legends about a case such as this.
          I’m just a simple man who loves this beautiful country that I was lucky enough to be born into. I’ve never professed to be a genius. I have an education — maybe that is why you think I’m a genius; but I assure you: I’m just a regular joe.

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            And modest, too!

  • steve bryant

    It was obvious from day one of this ridiculous story that Bundy, and his wife (especially his wife) were a couple of knuckle heads. They don’t have a leg to stand on, neither legal nor moral. At the is risk of being misunderstood as giving this red neck ANY moral support, I think it’s important to point out that the scene of 80 armed federal agents swooping down on this “gang that can’t shoot straight” is equally absurd. But that is no excuse for anyone giving an iota of support, or even sympathy here.
    All this proves is that there are plenty of ignoramuses in this country, and that if they are in abundance here in the land of milk and honey, then one can only imagine the percentage in the world’s population. All those who wonder how anyone could murder innocent people for any cause…here’s your answer. All those who wonder where the people who populate the “seen recently at Walmart” you tube videos…here’s your answer. As Rose Ann Rose ann-a-dan-a might say, “It’s always something”!!!!

    • KStrett

      There is more going on than you realize with the Federal government and ranchers. I believe most of the other Ranchers in Bundy’s area are gone. The reason for that is because there are 9 million regulations and the government uses them to harass ranchers and eventually drives them off the property.

    • Ryan Nichols

      For the most part this is a federal government and the media made problem. You think Bundy is the only person doing what he’s doing? He’s certainly not the only person who owes the government money. Who Bundy is and any of the stupid stuff that comes out of his mouth is irrelevant. It’s certainly not a reason to murder anyone. Your comments can also be perceived as borderline racist.

      We shouldn’t even know this man’s name. Which makes me wonder if this entire thing was created for political gain. This is dirty Harrys state, I don’t put anything past that man. Think about it. Isn’t it possible Reid knew this man was racist? And that he was anti government? And he was supported by other possibly racist, possibly anti government? And knowing all of that. Isn’t it possible that he could forsee the possible outcome? He was previously saying all he could say to tie racism to the right. And he knew where he could prove it. Because in Harry Reid ‘ s view, if some liberals do or say offensive things they’re not even a smidgen of the actual views or feeling of the democrat party. But if a Republican does or says something offensive, well that’s the right for ya…

  • Brad Ghorn

    Liberals will use this story as further proof that all Republicans are racist even though not many will defend the worst comments of Bundy. They will use the logic that if one Republican is racist then all Republicans are racist. This is similar to racist principals that if one black person does something wrong it is proof that all black people are wrong . Simple minded liberal media types love to impugn all Republicans any time one Republican says or does anything stupid. Many liberal media types will include Bernard Goldberg as a racist, sexist, homophobic man that hates women and the poor. It is not worth it for them to make distinctions; that would take too much intelligence.

    • sinz54

      On forums like NRO and PJ Media, too many conservatives are already rushing to rationalize Bundy’s comments.

      Just like they rationalized Akin’s comments three years ago.

      The GOP base has a real tendency to double down on stupid. They are so sure that we are in a real war with the Left, that they won’t ever distance themselves from an Akin or a Bundy. (Much like the Marines is famous for “never leaving one of our own behind.”)

      • Ryan Nichols

        Nah. It’s the other way around. The left will go to the end of the earth to tie the right to Bundy. As if it’s impossible to see someone defend his current legal situation without defending what comes out his mouth. If that’s really how liberals feel, then I wonder. . Do liberals also tie a public defender to his clients rapes? Oh those are different? How exactly?

      • http://lnsmitheeblog.blogspot.com LN_Smithee

        Just curious, Sinz: Why do you think the left has not distanced itself from Dan Savage, the longtime profane, vulgar gay activist who insults Christians (even children) and hypocritically speaks out against “cyberbullying” when he virtually invented it in a pique against Rick Santorum?

        • Tim Bertram Black

          Santorum compared gay sex to having sex with dogs… Listen to Dan sometime… you will learn a lot of stuff.
          The hallmark of a republican is their “close-mindedness”.

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            Yes, you are an expert on close-mindedness. Have another toke.

    • Tim Bertram Black

      I don’t need anymore proof. Anyone who would call themselves a “republican” is racist. Accept it and move on. It is simple.
      Anti-gay, anti-muslim, anti-minority, anti-science, anti-immigration (pro-immigrant, though! Cheap labor!), anti-education, etc. and on and on.
      Bundy is like all the rest of you lot: he just isn’t bright enough to talk between the lines about race.
      If McCain had won… there would be no Tea Party.

      • Hyperbolic Dumbass

        Yes, I’ve seen your liberal, open-minded, compassionate comments before. Consistent, immovable. You are a good soldier of the Left. With your reasoning, we should just round up all of those bad Republicans and conservatives and anyone who doesn’t agree with you… Reminds me of another time.

        • Tim Bertram Black

          Sorry… I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. I didn’t say anything that any red state republican wouldn’t agree with. I might add that republicans tend to be pro-myth (ie. worshipping poseidon, christ, etc.) as well.
          Old republicans are being replaced by young progressives day in and day out : one birth, one funeral at a time.
          Accept it and just move on, Hyper…

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            My feelings were not hurt. I am just amazed that someone can be as openly narrow minded, no, closed minded as yourself and not be embarrassed. As I said, it reminds me of another time, another place. If you don’t get it… well, that’s the problem with history. It tends to repeat itself.

          • Tim Bertram Black

            My mind is wide open! I’m interested in all the solutions my republican kinsmen want to discuss… >insert 20 minutes of cricket noises here< O well. Maybe someday, right?

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            You just proved my point.

          • Jeff Webb

            >>My mind is wide open!<<

            Explains how all the thoughts fell out.

      • followthetruth

        Okay…I’m just about sick enough with you sitting in your mom’s basement and spouting out hatred. The REAL RACISTS ARE THE DEMOCRATS…who follow the founder of Planned Parenthood’s idea that we need to get rid of “those less desirable people”. And I surely hope, Mr. Black, that you don’t have children that you so believe in SELLING INTO FINANCIAL SLAVERY. While Mr. Bundy said many INARTFUL things, he was speaking truth, about so many on welfare, and being “slaves” to their master….the elites. And if you can’t see the truth in that….go back and start from kindergarten, and progress through school again. Because you are truly ignorant of fact and empirical evidence that the “war on poverty” has NEVER been won. You didn’t like the way Mr. Bundy spoke, but you are NO BETTER THAN HIM…probably worse, because you are so close minded that you can’t see the forest for the trees!

      • Jeff Webb

        >>I don’t need anymore proof. Anyone who would call themselves a “republican” is racist. Accept it and move on. It is simple. Anti-gay, anti-muslim, anti-minority, anti-science, anti-immigration (pro-immigrant, though! Cheap labor!), anti-education, etc. and on and on.<>Bundy is like all the rest of you lot: he just isn’t bright enough to talk between the lines about race.<>If McCain had won… there would be no Tea Party.<<

        There wouldn't have been a need to form the Tea Party.

  • qrmqrn

    Okay, you’re right. But then isn’t the same true of the left and their adoration of the maladroit Obama?

  • brickman

    Gee, who would think that a nutjob could be a racist?

  • Peace

    Here’s another problem about the NY Times quote about Bundy’s drive by of the public housing project: what really prompted the quote? We know reporters can provoke a response from a naïve respondent. And, for you to report it without context violates one of your own criticisms of the media.
    There are racists in our country, throughout the spectrum of political beliefs, but your article today leaves the impression that anyone who has supported Mr. Bundy is a racist… and that is patently not true.
    If the intent of the Times was to unmask Mr. Bundy as a racist, therefore making his claims against the federal government invalid, they have succeeded in changing the subject. And you fell into their trap, as well.

    • sos

      Nothing “prompted the quote”, according to the report about the media event, there were no questions and he said all that unprompted. He has repeated it more than once today as well.

      • Peace

        Source, please?

        • Peace

          I just opened the Yahoo main page and saw a report about Mr. Bundy and his comments. But I would like to see the original source which states that the comments were unprovoked.

        • JMax
          • Peace

            Thanks for trying to answer my request. But, as I said in my follow-up, I’m trying to find out what was said or asked just before he makes his remarks. As he said in this clip, “I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro…” –One more thing– Which tells me he had already made a comment. People don’t just start talking about a subject without a reason. This isn’t George Carlin on a stream of consciousness meandering. I imagine Mr. Bundy was talking about his problems with the BLM before this digression. So what got him off subject and talking about African Americans (and Hispanics).
            .
            Can anyone point me to that source? Thanks.

          • JMax

            The full 90 minute video and an extended clip can be found at Breitbart: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/04/24/cliven-bundy-controversial-remarks-full-context-video-with-transcript/

            Now I have to shower myself off. :-)

  • brickman

    Bundy can believe what he wants to about race. I’ll be happy to listen to him AFTER he pays his debt and obeys court orders. If people want to raise money for a legal fund or do pro bono work for him, knock yourselves out.

  • pomeroo

    Bullseye, Bernie!

  • lark2

    I am not an expert at anything but I think I am well educated. My understanding of the U.S. Constitution is that rights not specifically granted to the Federal Government are reserved to the states. If there is an expert out there … Please tell me where in the Constitution the right to own land is granted to the Federal Government. Yes, they have been acquiring land for some time but, no one has challenged them. I said in a post that the Bundy people have owned their land for 100 years .. I have been taken to task by someone who says the Bundy’s bought the land in 1940 (74 years) … maybe he bought it from a relative … I don’t know … the point is he has owned the land for a long time … long before the Feds started to buying land and collecting “grazing fees”.

    I said Mr. Kornze is 34 … a participant on this site has said he is 35 … My point was he is quite a young man who has done very little other that work for Harry Reid … from 2003 to 2011. By my calculation, in 2003 when he went to work for Reid, Mr. Kornze was 24 years old … barely out of Whitman College in Walla Walla, Washington where he majored in Politics. In January, 2011, he was positioned by Sen. Reid at the BLM as “Senior Advisor to the Director” and 10 months later, in October of 2011… Sen Reid re- positioned him as ACTING DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR POLICY AND PROGRAMS. Wow, from Political lackey to SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE DIRECTOR. Very Impressive! Others may be very impressed by the political maneuvers of Harry Reid and Neil Kornze but, I’m not. The really disturbing thing is the we have arrived at a point in our history where people are incapable of looking at and evaluating situations as they are – people are so anxious to apply their political spin. Everyone wants to be a “spin doctor” … Why can’t we all be honest … examine a situation and let the chips fall where they may? There is a HARRY REID connection to all this and we need to find out what it is. He is an expert at misdirection. That is what the “Domestic Terrorism” comment is all about and that’s why we’re all hung up on the Racism of an uneducated simple senior country guy. The NY TIMES and Harry Reid are experts. Lets not fall for it!

    • sos

      The public lands in Nevada have been owned by the federal government since that land was won from Mexico. The constitution of Nevada makes it clear that the unappropriated lands are public:

      That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States;

      • lark2

        Thank you. I assume what you say is true.

      • therealguyfaux

        “Nulle terre sans seigneur.”

        Law-court Norman French from medieval Britain, “No land without a landlord”; if no one else owns it, the King does. All legal titles start from “the King to Lord Muckamuck, Lord Muckamuck to…” and so on. If Lord Muckamuck or his descendants forfeit their right, the land reverts to the King.

        I have never lived in Nevada and so, cannot know this first-hand, but I would suspect the land titles in Nevada start with the formulation “From the United States to the Territory of Nevada upon statehood; State of Nevada to [first holder] etc.” Such land as the Feds retained title to was probably a condition of admission to statehood, and was never actually ceded, and is “From the US to NV with title to said land remaining vested in US.” Such land as the US then rented, allowed use of, etc, upon violation of leases, contracts, etc, reverts back to the US as the landlord. It’s like when the Feds buy land for a military base or a post office– if they do not sell it off when that use is finished, and merely rent it out, they are the landlord same as any private landholder and would have the same remedies available. The major difference is that the US government probably hasn’t any NV property tax assessed against it, and as such, all their claims against the land users are probably the first-place lien.

  • Beachley CE

    You’re showing your liberal roots & this is where I get off……I am not a racist but I should not even have to say that….why don’t you find out where dirty Harry & his son stands in this mess……….all this time I had respect for you ….I will pass along your view to my friends that don’t read you…………you did loose this fan. I know this does not mean anything but I always thought you were fair not so anymore & it did not start with this post. God Bless or is that too PC? This world is upside down & many of us are so tired of it…it remains as always in God’s hands.This man’s words if they are correct….they did come from a liberal press do not represent all of the right wing & I am one…you are only telling half the story & that is not at all like you. I will keep you in my prayers .

  • Peace

    As someone who lives east of the Cascade range of Oregon, where most of the land is owned by federal and state agencies, I have experienced the prejudice of metro-centric people that think there is a relationship between the distance from metropolitan areas to a person’s IQ. Ranchers and farmers are businessmen and most of the ones I know have college degrees and some with MBA’s — one of them from Harvard. Sorry Mr. Bundy isn’t as polished as some would hope, but he’s not stupid when it comes to what he knows about business.

    • sos

      Sure, grazing for free when everyone else has to pay is great for business.

      • Peace

        I don’t understand your comment, “when everyone else has to pay.” Pay for what? The ground is there in a natural state. No one is planting alfalfa for cattle to graze on… it’s all just natural vegetation that grows wild. Deer and antelope eat it, too. Right along with the cattle. Grazing fees are another tax. I’ll leave it to the lawyers to figure that part out… but the land and vegetation is there regardless of whether it is open to cattle grazing. It is not costing anybody anything.

        • sos

          All the other ranchers using the public lands pay a grazing fee, which is actually much cheaper than private land fees. Mr. Bundy is freeloading on public lands by not paying what all other ranchers in similar situations pay.

          • Peace

            Thank you for clarifying your statement. I can agree with that. I don’t know all of the legal maneuvers that have taken place, but as I understand, Mr. Bundy may have grandfathered access and easement rights to the grazing range. I don’t know if the judgment against him has been appealed and if further appeals are possible. If the courts uphold the BLM’s claim, then he should be responsible for paying those fees, which are really a tax. If the case has not been fully adjudicated, then the BLM should have waited and not instigated what turned in to a dangerous situation. There is dual responsibility here, to be sure.

          • sos

            He has lost every single court case against him about this for 20 years. He owes over $1 million. He was paying the fees up until 1993 then he stopped.

          • dld

            The BLM couldn’t have been too concerned about the $1 mil owed them if they ran up a lot more than that on the federal dime to try to get Mr. Bundy’s cattle off the land with snipers, bringing in a bulldozer and killing some of his cattle.

      • followthetruth

        Yes…just like my family has to pay taxes, and now 31K for health insurance. Yet…SO MANY GET IT FREE! Go figure your reasoning! I cannot believe how silly and brainwashed so many of our citizens are these days. It is sickening to see where we are headed, and it is not a good place. 3/4 of the population here just believes what a professor, politician, or media person tells them. No one for the TRUTH!!!! Follow the money, be open minded, and you will find a lot. Both parties are off base right now, and if we don’t get some INDEPENDENT THINKERS in our nation, we are truly lost, and in the very near future.

  • keg329

    Don’t worry Mr. Goldberg, you’ll earn new fans to replace your old racist fans who didn’t realize you are a decent person and not racist. Like me! Your NEW fan. <3

    • legal eagle

      Don’t worry….Bernie Goldberg will soon be back to his usual position of expertise on race issues in America…

  • pupster40

    Uneducated, not a college grad, not a slick Willy, he may be all those things. He also is fighting a well armed militia for insignificant wrongs, you don’t use an automatic weapon to execute a parking ticket. It doesn’t matter if it is outstanding for 20 years.
    Broke the law, yes he did. deserves the death penalty, no way in hell. Bernie you are way off base on this one.

    • JMax

      You WOULD bring an automatic weapon to defend your contract cowboys herding the deadbeat’s cattle if said deadbeat says he doesn’t recognize the federal government.

      • followthetruth

        What federal government? The one who thumbs their noses at laws congress passed? The one who now decides to enforce, or not enforce laws based on whether they support you, or fund your election…or not? Is that the federal government you are talking about JMax…because I am just VERY CONFUSED about my “government” right now. The one who will make me pay a parking ticket, but let felons go free? Is it THAT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT you are speaking of JMax? WOW! I thought our federal government has gone very rogue lately….just saying.

        • JMax

          Have you ever gotten a parking ticket from the federal government?

          These are pretty serious but vague accusations. Which laws is the government thumbing their noses at? Which laws are enforced or not based on support in elections? All felons go free sooner or later. Which ones are you talking about?

          Rogue lately? Like, since when? Just asking.

  • Cosette

    Just to clarify, Bernie: No one is promoting Mr. Bundy for president, governor or spokesman for the tea party movement. The action of federal officials brought the attention of the media before the whole story could be sorted out. And it is that over-reaction where the attention should be focused.

    • Spencer

      The media sensationalized an already sensational story by emphasizing the conflict without adequate context. It took time to understand what the fuss was all about because the feds, backed up by local sheriff’s deputies came in like the gestapo.

  • Tanker74

    Bernie thinks “he’s a very stupid man,” so that will make it okay to kill him when the paramilitaries return, probably in the dead of night with fully-automatic assault rifles with unnecessary 30-round magazines loaded with citizen killer bullets.

    • sinz54

      Oh, please.

      Bernie never said that it was all right to kill Mr. Bundy.

      He simply said that Mr. Bundy makes a poor hero when he makes statements that discredit his cause and the conservative cause generally.

      I’ll bet you defended Todd Akin in 2012 too, right?

  • robert

    You just got unsubscribed, turkeyrobert

  • Historian

    Ok, he said “Negro.” So did Martin Luther King, Jr., LBJ, JFK, RFK and Senator Grand Wizard Robert Byrd. Oh, I forgot, the esteemed Senator used another word. If we forgave them, maybe we can get past what this rancher said and pay attention to the real issues here.

    • sinz54

      The use of the word “Negro” wasn’t the issue.

      It was his wondering whether blacks were better off under slavery than on welfare.

      NOBODY is ever better off under slavery.

      That particular argument has a painful history in America–white Southerners trying to claim that black slavery was better than “capitalist exploitation.”

      • Historian

        Agreed. But now the attention has been shifted away from the main issue and that is too bad. A man’s opinion about an unrelated subject, even though it is something we don’t agree with, should not detract from the main topic. It’s too bad Bundy didn’t keep that opinion to himself. Definitely a self-inflicted wound.

    • Franklyn Douglas

      The problem is that this is 2014 not the 1960’s

  • robert

    Who voided the 7 year occupancy law?

    • NiCuCo

      If you mean “adverse possession,” it does not apply (with some exceptions) to government property.

  • wally12

    I agree with Bernie on many issues but he is really clueless on this one. I agree that Bundy sounds like he has some racial problems. That is not new. Many old people cling to the past and never forget a bias acquired in their youth. I have some relatives who are biased in that way and they still say Negro rather than black or African American. Bundy also has a poor way of communicating but he sure likes to talk whenever someone will listen.
    I do not know the full truth of the Bundy dispute but one item that has not been explained to me as being true or false is one I read on the internet by someone who was a relative of the family. The story I read stated that years ago the ranchers paid the fees that were levied by the government and in exchange , the government was to do some of the basic maint. of the lands. Initially, the government did support the ranchers but as time passed they stopped. It sounded like Bundy didn’t pay his fees if the government didn’t uphold their portion of the agreement. I have not heard of any confirmation of this story.
    Recently a new story of the rancher in Texas who had a title to his property that adjoined the Red River between Texas and Oklahoma. He has paid his taxes and has worked the land for years. However, the Red River is one that keeps cutting a new path. Thus, in theory, Texas loses some land and Oklahoma gains. The process reverses over time. For some reason, the BLM has gotten involved and has laid claim to the property along those portions of the Red River after it changes course. Why? The BLM states they need the land but do not have a rightful claim. This sounds like a extreme over reach to me.

    Another couple bought and built a cabin in a mountain in the west ( Utah?). Again, the BLM decided that the government needed this land under the claim that it wanted to maintain the area. After, numerous lawsuit the couple could no longer fight the federal government and were force to sell their cabin and property for a loss. Sounds like government overreach again. What say you Mr. Goldberg., Are you for an overreaching government or do you prefer that a title to property by citizens isn’t worth the paper it is printed on?
    Last night, Judge Napolitano stated that the constitution doesn’t give the federal government the power to own land. That right belongs to individuals and states. Maybe this should be your next article by explaining whether the federal government has that right or is the federal government oppressive.

    • therealguyfaux

      Who says the Government can’t own land? I’m sure that qua market participant, they can buy property on the same footing as any other entity. It’s an aspect of sovereignty. It’s the 5th Amendment condemnation for public use situation that causes problems. It’s also the sweetheart deals made that allow the Government to buy land from favored entities that can be a problem too.

      • wally12

        Sorry but the 5th Amendment is the right of citizens to not incriminate themselves. You have your amendments mixed up. Your are correct that governments can purchase land that is used for the public good such as roads and hospitals etc. However, They need a good reason to do so and must pay a fair price for the land that is used for those purposes.

        • therealguyfaux

          Read the last clause of the Fifth amendment, Justice Wally:
          “No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous
          crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in
          cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in
          actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be
          subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or
          limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness
          against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without
          due process of law;>>> nor shall private property be taken for public use,
          without just compensation<<<"
          See– wouldn't it just have been easier to Google it, instead of making a fool of yourself?

          • wally12

            There is only one fool that is addressing a subject about land ownership and that my friend is you. The 5th amendment has nothing to do about Bundy’s argument with the government. Where are you coming from?

          • therealguyfaux

            Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong suit– I didn’t say it WAS the issue in the Bundy case, although it may become one at some point.

            The question was whether the Federal Government can own land. The answer is, yes, they can. I was saying that how they come to own it is the issue that can be full of problems, if they do it incorrectly or illegally.

            You made a categorical statement about the 5th Amendment and you were wrong. Just be an adult about it and admit it.

  • Spencer

    I was hoping Bernie’s column today would have been on the Supreme Court’s decision re affirmative action. Maybe next time.

  • http://lnsmitheeblog.blogspot.com LN_Smithee

    Bernie, when you write…

    No amount of frustration with so-called RINO’s – moderate Republicans – can justify such admiration for such a stupid man.

    …you’re being distracted from the real issue by your emotions. I try not to get distracted. That’s why even though I detest them as individuals, I have no problem with the Westboro Baptist Church’s disgusting funeral protests targeting gays and deceased soldiers. Like Cliven Bundy, they may be stupid, but they’re stupid Americans, and as such, have the right of free speech.

    Anyone who reads my blog or my Twitter feed knows that 1) I am a black man and conservative despite being a native of San Francisco; 2) I don’t defend
    people, I defend principles. I have a slight problem with what Bundy said about “Negroes,” but I agree in some ways. It happens to be my belief that an unspoken negative side effect of the so-called Great Society was the gradual acceptance of government dependence as a birthright of American-born blacks. At least where I live, I see no such attitudes inherent in the families of African immigrants; it is an American problem. Africans who come to the USA from half a world away look at it as a land of opportunity; too many African-Americans, in my humble opinion, think they’re screwed from the moment they emerge from the womb with too much melanin, and knock their heads against a ceiling largely of their own
    creation.

    I have been frustrated with the Bundy family and their supporters because they don’t seem to be able to speak beyond vague cliches of “freedom” and “government.” I contrast the Bundys and their supporters with the family of Wayne Hage, Sr., another Nevada rancher whose family has, like the Bundys, had a legal battle with Bureau of Land Management officials and other regulatory agencies dating back to the early ’90s. The Hages’ story was chronicled in Fox News’ Jon Scott’s special Enemies of The State, which focused on Americans who have been the targets of specific Federal government prosecution and/or persecution without merit (including True The Vote’s Catherine Engelbrecht, a Lois Lerner harassee).

    In order to continue to fight the Feds, Wayne Hage Jr. went to law school, and the most recent ruling in the labyrinthine case was a solid win for his now-deceased father and his family. A Federal District judge in Nevada wrote an May 2013 decision in which the following was written: (bold mine)


    In summary, government officials … entered into a literal, intentional conspiracy to deprive the Hages not only of their permits but also of their vested water rights. This behavior shocks the conscience of the Court and provides a sufficient basis for a finding of irreparable harm…

    Wayne Hage Jr., who can be seen here in a brief clip of a longer interview by Scott, doesn’t seem to be a nut. He looks like a thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken young man who just happens to wear a cowboy hat and lives in rural Nevada. I have absolutely no idea what his thoughts are on social programs or race, and when it comes to the issue of whether the federal government conspired to screw his family, it doesn’t matter. There is nothing in the Constitution that says only good and decent people should have their rights protected by the government and the courts.

    Frankly, Bernie, as one who is adept at detecting bias to another, I’m disappointed that you would join in the chorus of media leftists who create an atmosphere of “You don’t wanna defend that guy, do you?” when the issue is not who he is, but whether the government is right in treating anybody the way they’ve treated him. Sure, you write “There are legitimate arguments to be made about whether the federal government should control so much land in the West,” but that seems to be secondary to your saying “Ewww, he’s a racist! Don’t give him or his case any more attention!”

    I’m surprised at you, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

    • TheAmishDude

      The problem is two-fold. First, Bundy is not a sympathetic character, as we all know. Second, he didn’t have a case. Inasmuch as he became a symbol for others who had a case, you have a point, but he was a bad symbol because his case wasn’t as good as Hage’s for the simple reason that Bundy lost his court case(s). And for good reason.

      • http://lnsmitheeblog.blogspot.com LN_Smithee

        I’m a city boy who doesn’t know jack squat about grazing rights, but after seeing the Hages’ legal battle turn in his favor after 22 years, I wasn’t going to accept “The government won in court X number of times” stand on its own, because the same could have been said in the Hages’ case. We know from the Hages’ battle that there was, in fact, a BLM conspiracy against their family; I resist the temptation to say, “Well, Bundy’s an backwards moron, so let any possible conspiracy succeed in destroying him.”

    • Franklyn Douglas

      I have to chuckle at your SLIGHT PROBLEM being with the term Negro….but not the thought process that blacks were better off when we were SLAVES. When we were someone’s legal property. When we were not better off then a masters Cows, or farm tools. That we were better off when families were split up. Husbands had to ask the master for permission to marry and then had to leave the cabin when the master wanted to RAPE THE WIFE. As another black conservative that surprises me. But hey it’s your right to think however you choose too. I will also check out your blog in the future.

      • http://lnsmitheeblog.blogspot.com LN_Smithee

        At no time did I say my problem with Bundy’s remarks was limited to his use of the term “Negro.”

        Here’s what I wrote:

        I have a slight problem with what Bundy said about “Negroes,” but I agree in some ways.

        When you do check out my blog, you may want to bring greater reading comprehension skills than you used when reading my comment above.

        • Franklyn Douglas

          Correct you did not say you limited your problem with Bundy’s remarks to “Negro”. However after that you went into an area where you agree in some ways.

          It may just be me, but I think not pointing out the horrors of slavery. Or at least balancing them against the “some ways you agree” with his point left me feeling some type of way.

          It’s kind of like when people say. “HITLER CREATED THE AUTOBAHN” I’m sorry I am still dealing with the millions of Jews he systematically had killed.

          Ahh NEVERMIND I’m sure we won’t agree so why bother.

          I am product of a quality Southern Califorina public school education. I have no problem comprehending what you wrote. And I can’t read on my iPad without my reading glasses. But thanks for the concern…lol

        • Franklyn Douglas

          Well I can’t read your mind. So I went with what you wrote.

      • followthetruth

        I hate to break it to you Mr. Douglas, but you ARE STILL someone’s legal property. Look at your SS card. Your SS # is COLLATERAL to the PRIVATELY HELD FEDERAL RESERVE BANK, owned by the elite banking cartel…and if you EVER understand that, you will be MORE angry than you were before. And, by the way, there is more slavery in the world today than ever before! Look it up. Also, the pilgrims that came here, left England, where they were the KINGS PROPERTY! They fought for their freedom,, but we have now been sold back to those same “masters”. They’ve just been brilliant at hiding those facts from you.

  • Mark Rushing

    The NYT interview is having its intended effects. Bundy is undoubtedly lacking in superior intellect because he was willing to fall for this as well as to say something about race, which has absolutely nothing to do with his plight.

    They had to find a way to turn public sentiment against Bundy and as always, the left and government resolved to play the race card by asking loaded and irrelevant questions.

    Mr. Bundy’s statement on his comparison of slavery to government dependency in perpetuity, if closely examined in reality is not far off even though some may view it as racist. The facts support that the black community has been held back and irreparably harmed by liberal policies under the guise of aiding said community.

    In addition, going back and examining the data and finances of slaves shows that many were in fact able to amass wealth to purchase their own freedom as well as have family/leisure time. With liberal policies having served to essentially destroy the ideals of the “black family” look at the resulting harm.

    In closing, slavery was a horrid institution and no person should ever own another. It was done in the United States, it is over and we as a nation have more than paid the price of slavery.as we are continuing to pay to this day. Slavery in America is over but flourishes as it always has in many countries around the globe. Cliven Bundy may not be an intellectual and politically correct but that does not change the facts of government corruption, government over-reach and government radicalism and militancy, all of which must be met with force if necessary.

    • legal eagle

      So Bundy was goaded by the liberal press into making racist statements? Great intellectual justification for your racist, anti-government viewpoints…No wonder Republicans can’t win a national election?

      • calhou

        ………and you liberal progressives don’t screw up in front of a camera and make off-hand racist or anti-gay comments? I’m afraid that you do……but you hypocrites give each other a pass (Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin and others are – by your definition – demonstrated homophobes and racists…….yet they get a pass).

        • legal eagle

          Always the same meme….They do it also?…Alec Baldwin got a pass? I don’t think so. MSNBC fired him didn’t they?

          • calhou

            To a liberal it is only “the same meme” when applied to them. The fact is that they follow a double standard and in that standard anyone not like them is racist. Hypocrites.

        • Jeff Webb

          >>and you liberal progressives don’t screw up in front of a camera and make off-hand racist or anti-gay comments?<<

          Actually, no. When liberals expose themselves as bigots, it's 100% intentional.

      • Mark Rushing

        You completely miss the point Mr. intellectual. You are about to see a lot of conservatives winning elections by-the-way. It is helpful when millions of dead people, illegal immigrants and other ineligibles aren’t allowed to vote (most of them, multiple times).

        Your opinion that I have racist and anti-government viewpoints are not supported by the facts of my life in the least but facts never stop liberals. Have a good evening & thank you for your comments.

    • JMax

      You can see an extended version of the video at Breitbart: http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/04/24/cliven-bundy-controversial-remarks-full-context-video-with-transcript/

      Note that NO questions were asked by the single reporter that was there. Bundy was merely holding his daily “news conference” and the widely published video clip was mid-rant.

      • Mark Rushing

        It is unfortunate that Bundy would even veture into the arena of sharing an opinion on a hot button topic that had nothing to do with his plight. While I do not truly believe he intended it to be as racist as it sounds, I conceded that he stepped in his own pile on this one. Nevertheless, whether he is racist or not changes nothing about the dispute over federal land grabs.

        The federal government “owns” nothing. The people own everything in the United States. We have bought it all with sweat and blood and no corrupt socialist politician colluding in a personal money making scheme with the Chinese can change that fact.

        • JMax

          “The people own everything in the United States.”

          That sounds like Communism, doesn’t it? The people own your land and my land?

          Or are you saying the people own the public lands in the United States? That I agree with. And I want market value for ranchers grazing on the land that I own. Don’t you? That would by $16.80 for every cow/calf pair per month instead of the measly $1.35 he wasn’t paying.

          As to the Chinese money-making scheme, you should read up on it:

          http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3144391/posts

          The deal doesn’t exist and it is nowhere near the Bundy ranch.

          • Mark Rushing

            You are obviously a little confused about Communism since it claims to be for the people but the state i.e. the government owns everything and there is no personal property. We the people are the taxpayers that fund land purchased by the government that we created to serve the function as set forth by the people. Therefore the land is PUBLIC and belongs to said people.

            As far as inventing an endangered species and direct emails between Harry Reid and others stating the project cannot go forward until the Bundy’s free roam cows are removed, I think the exchanges speak for themselves. In addition, the BLM stated they could not take care of the non-endangered tortoise without the grazing fees so they had to euthanize them. When that tactic failed also, they launched a full military operation, destroyed century old private property, killed more turtles and butchered cattle as well as assaulted people and set up first amendment zones.

            I personally do not believe Bundy owes anything to the people for grazing his cattle, which was allegedly to offset the damages to the hundreds of thousands of acres, which would somehow further endanger the non-endangered species. The government is here to serve the people, not the other way around. The BLM has been seizing land all over this country and denying the peoples rights to even set foot on said land even though our tax dollars paid for it.

            Having said all of that, if you believe the BLM was acting in your best interest in seeking grazing fees after declaring the turtle endangered in 93 file a lien on Bundy’s ranch. Having said that, the government, at Harry Reid’s behest, spent millions of tax payers dollars deploying a small army of men, equipment, vehicles, air support, cowboys, weapon systems etc..

            Placing a lien on the property and livestock to collect the money, which is actually around $300,000 from 93 up to 2015, assuming that he truly has 900 head of cattle (which he does not) at $1.35 per head and has had that constant amount since 93 (which he did not). I do not believe spending $30 million to collect $300K is motivated by grazing fees rather than Reid’s documented pattern of corruption.

            I guess the bottom line is that after serving this country for 20 years, now that we have a communist president, I am a domestic terrorist because I don’t buy into the socialist narrative. If any governmental agency should be considered the owner of that land, it should be the citizens of Nevada through their representative government with the same claiming any monies owed to the people for grazing rights, not the federal government that screws up everything they touch.

          • JMax

            I’m not confused at all. But I think you might be.

            The public lands in Nevada were not purchased by anybody. They were conceded to the United States by Mexico as a result of the Treaty of Guadalupe in the 1840s. The more populated areas of Nevada were given to the state of Nevada while the Federal Government retained 80% of the land as a condition of statehood.

            Yes, we the people own the public land, but not individually. That land is now overseen for the benefit of the public by the BLM.

            The Harry Reid/Desert Tortoise conspiracy is being circulated by Alex Jones which is where you probably heard it. The animal has been listed as threatened since 1980, a time when Reid held no public office.

            “I think the exchanges speak for themselves.”

            What exchanges? Do you have a link to something?

            “the BLM stated they could not take care of the non-endangered tortoise without the grazing fees so they had to euthanize them.”

            This is total nonsense. The only euthanizing of Desert Tortoises is of unhealthy tortoises which were formerly pets and are a danger to the health of healthy tortoises. http://www.fws.gov/cno/press/release.cfm?rid=526

            “a full military operation”

            Third Army or 7th Cavalry?

            “destroyed century old private property”

            What property?

            “killed more turtles and butchered cattle”

            Alex Jones again? What is your source?

            From the videos I’ve seen the “militias” assaulted the police.

            “The BLM has been seizing land all over this country and denying the
            peoples rights to even set foot on said land even though our tax dollars
            paid for it.”

            Where? Source?

            “Having said all of that, if you believe the BLM was acting in your best
            interest in seeking grazing fees, after declaring the turtle endangered
            in 93″

            Does the BLM name endangered species? No, it’s the US Dept. of Fish and Wildlife Services.

            “The government, at Harry Reid’s behest, spent millions of tax payer dollars”

            Your source?

            “weapon systems” WTF?

            I’m pretty sure Bundy racked up a large amount of penalties and interest over 20 years.

            “Reid’s documented pattern of corruption.”

            Documented where? Source?

            “now that we have a communist president and senate”

            LOL. I think that is called an oxymoron.

            “If any governmental agency should be considered the owner of that land,
            it should be the citizens of Nevada through their representative
            government with the same claiming any monies owed to the people for
            grazing rights, not the federal government that screws up everything
            they touch.”

            The state of Nevada has never ever claimed those lands and never collected grazing fees for them. It is owned by the people of the United States through their representative government.

          • Mark Rushing

            I try to respect you as an elder however I must beg to differ as I am definitely not the one confused here. Land ownership doesn’t matter individually when you are talking about PUBLIC lands. You are speciously trying to use syntax and drivel as an argument for big government.

            Bundy’s right to point out the issue of black children murdered by abortion in accordance with Sanger’s original plan. Sadly, many in the black community don’t recognize that they continue to elect their oppressors to office. This is the reason Malcom X, just before he was murdered, made a speech where he begged the black community to stop supporting democrats and the liberal elite.

            In my opinion, Bundy’s comments are anything but racist, this is just how the progressive media in this country operate. They pull sound bites in order to create a non-story, to inflame those who will never dig deeper than what they are fed by editing and manipulation.

            Back to the BLM, they are supposedly stewards of public lands serving on our (we the people) behalf, so what right do they have to murder an individual for going onto public lands or even stop them for that matter? Lands are not conceded by-the-way, opinions are. Lands are ceded. Further, the tortoise was listed as threatened in 1990 not 1980 and Harry Reid went into office in 1987. Grazing fees were implemented in 1993. As an aside, it has always been my understanding that an endangered species could not be a pet.

            As for the Bundy ranch being no where near the power plant, I concede the fact that despite Reid & son’s previous involvement with ENN, I now do not believe this to be the case at the Bundy ranch rather than an insane case of the government heavy-handedness and spending millions to go after thousands.

            As for you flat out being an idiot in your response and acting the way you do, my patience is running thin. If you are so stupid that I must go to pains to articulate every single word of a sentence without having to clarify it so that you can understand I am not saying the BLM declare the tortoise endangered, then you are well below any level of reasonable intelligence and as I stated before you are simply and speciously arguing syntax in a failed effort to question my knowledge or intellect. Here is a partial accounting of the costs of the BLM Bundy operation. http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada-and-west/federal-roundup-trespass-cattle-could-cost-least-1-million

            In Reid’s previous dealings with his son & ENN land purchases as well as relocating desert tortoises at a cost of $55,000 each rather than simply building the site further out in the desert sounds a bit ridiculous as well don’t you think? Do you believe that was a good use of your tax dollars?

            The tortoise is also said to be unable to survive around “solar plants” either but that did not stop Reid’s plans from being approved either time did it? This article from a liberal source on 8/25/2013 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/25/desert-tortoise_n_3813133.html tells about the BLM planned killings of the tortoises as well as kind-of fills you in on the fact they were pushing hard for funding. Not only that but driving all over the desert in 100 vehicles and ATVs did a lot of damage in a week as well as killing tortoises with the vehicles.

            Another example of how out of control this organization is http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/02/20/both-blm-rangers-fired-in-red-rock-shooting/ where two Rangers opened fire on an unarmed black man because they said he was reaching for a NHP officer’s rifle which was locked in a safety rack and protected by the officer.

            A full military / paramilitary operation does not have to be conducted by the 3rd armored division, As you are clearly unfamiliar with military terminology, maneuvers and facts, weapon systems (WTF?) are helo-mounted gun, sniper weapon systems etc.. etc..

            How you can sit there and deny that 200 men in full combat tactical gear with military weaponry, over 100 vehicles, 7 sniper teams, complete with air support (13 helicopters) is not a military operation is unnerving. I can’t help but wonder if you believe the militias presence there were a military operation.

            As far as Alec Jones, I’m not really familiar with him or what he is circulating, you can find all the information the same way I did by various news sources as well as the Bundy family and blog. I read this article way back concerning Reid’s shady dealings and thought it may be connected http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831 but it turned out not to be the case.

            Reid is about as corrupt as they come and is being protected by the Obama administration currently http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/13/fbi-blocked-in-corruption-probe-involving-sens-rei/

            Reid is everything liberals constantly accuse the GOP of being. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/04/24/harry_reids_long_steady_accretion_of_power__wealth-2.html

            Another liberal sourced article on Reid’s corruption: http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jun/23/nation/na-sons23 sheds further light on his underhandedness and nepotism/money scams. As you can see, I had plenty reasons to question the legitimacy of Reid’s involvement.

            You feverishly demanded documentation as if nothing existed and I presume you expected the left leaning media to be clear of any such “pattern of corruption” but yet again. You are wrong. At least you are consistent.

          • JMax

            “Lands are not conceded by-the-way, opinions are. Lands are ceded.”

            http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/concession

            3. something conceded by a government or a controlling authority, as a grant of land, a privilege, or a franchise.

            “You are speciously trying to use syntax and drivel as an argument for big government.”

            I’m doing no such thing. I’m saying that management of public lands is in the public’s interest and that lands owned by the public are not open to what any individual wants to do on them.

            “Further, the tortoise was listed as threatened in 1990 not 1980″

            No. 1980: http://ecos.fws.gov/speciesProfile/profile/speciesProfile.action?spcode=C04L

            “Bundy’s right to point out the issue of black children murdered by abortion in accordance with Sanger’s original plan.”

            He didn’t point that out and it is nonsense on so many levels whether he said it or not.

            “what right do they have to murder an individual”

            Whom did the BLM murder?

            “Further, the tortoise was listed as threatened in 1990 not 1980″

            Nope. http://ecos.fws.gov/speciesProfile/profile/speciesProfile.action?spcode=C04L

            “As an aside, it has always been my understanding that an endangered species could not be a pet.”

            Read the link I provided. Pet tortoises are let into the wild. Euthanizing tortoises has been to maintain the health of the healthy population, that is until the Fish & Wildlife Dept. could no longer care for them. But this Desert Tortoise thing is only a red herring.

            “Here is a partial accounting of the costs of the BLM Bundy operation.”

            $1MM is a lot less than $30MM.

            “Do you believe that was a good use of your tax dollars?”

            Not if that was the only thing going on. However, in the scope of trying to develop renewable energy it might be.

            “tells about the BLM planned killings of the tortoises as well as kind-of
            fills you in on the fact they were pushing hard for funding.”

            It’s the US Fish and Wildlife Department, not the BLM, and they were pushing for funding so that the preservation center wouldn’t have to close and euthanize tortoises.

            ” two Rangers opened fire on an unarmed black man because they said he
            was reaching for a NHP officer’s rifle which was locked in a safety rack
            and protected by the officer.”

            I guess you didn’t read the entire article.

            “200 men in full combat tactical gear with military weaponry, over 100
            vehicles, 7 sniper teams, complete with air support (13 helicopters)”

            What is your source for this claim?

            Your Washington Times, Real Clear Politics, and LA Times articles are full of innuendo but lack any actual evidence of corruption.

            Feverishly? That’s a bit hyperbolic, isn’t it?

          • Mark Rushing

            Firstly, I owe you an apology for getting testy last night. I have no excuse, but in my own defense, it was an extremely long day. I should have foregone a reply to you until today as I was exhausted, in pain and a little peeved last night. My apologies.

            I do not particularly care for debating syntax but you are off target on your use of the word conceded even by giving me a link to the word “concession” Here is the proper link, from the same source but correct word, that you gave me. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cede?s=t the concession definition even explains that it usually refers to opinions etc.. or grant of land as a privilege (i.e. a concession point in negotiations etc..) The word cede is exclusive and accurate and specifically states it is often confused with concede. As I previously stated, you are confused.

            What part of the article concerning the two rangers killing the man is it that you are “guessing” I did not read? I am more inclined to “guess” that you are doing some additional “reading into” the article, such as forming an opinion based upon what you want to be true. Kind-of like liberals wanting Bundy to be a racist bigot and a Sharpton level tax evader .

            As for the articles which I provided the links for being “full of innuendo”, I would surmise that the NYT video/article on Bundy, after its manipulation & questionable editing, was of lesser quality than those liberal articles. Further, I believe that any media, particularly liberal, would find it difficult to express anything other than innuendo especially considering that the man (loosely termed) is being protected from investigation & prosecution at the highest levels of government.

            As for my source on the various military hardware deployed by the government for the Bundy operation, which also included dump-trucks, excavators & dozers to destroy the 100+ year old property I previously spoke of (water tanks & piping), you obviously have the same capabilities to get that information and review videos of same. I watched the videos of everything going on there and never saw any militia member (or anyone else for that matter) assault anyone. The only violence, threatening and killing done on the Bundy operation was done by the BLM and I did see agents tazing people, slamming a pregnant woman to the ground, tackling a 60 something year old female cancer survivor, shooting cattle from helicopters and the cordoned off 1st amendment zones etc..

            I do not believe that my description of you “feverishly” demanding sources was inaccurate or hyperbolic. No more so than my statement that you were being specious. However, if you feel that I have grossly maligned you, I am sorry you feel that way but I must stand by my words as being accurate.

            Of course, after serving in the military for over 20 years and being an LEO for 5, I am not a trusting, naive fellow anyway, I tend to examine everything and do the digging & fact-finding for myself regardless of the source(s), which I then cross-check with various other sources as well as a couple of paid intelligence reports I subscribe to and receive from multi-national, non-partisan, defense agency sources.

            Being inquisitive as such, I tend to expect other people to forth the same effort and normally do not bother listing a bunch of links for every opinion I have formed or every fact I convey. I am not a follower of Mr. Jones (or anyone else for that matter) but since you mentioned him, I did look him up and found he has some good reports along with some that I considered questionable and bad. BUT again, those are my opinions and we all have varying opinions concerning the integrity of various people.

            As far as the partial (Operative Word There Max) accounting being a lot less than $30 million, I agree and recommend that you do as I did and ask your representatives to force the BLM and the Obama administration to release an accounting of total expenditures for the Bundy operation, since like everything else in this administration, they have failed to meet their transparency promises to the American people. The approximately $1 Million was paid to one group of the out-of-state cowboys to round up the cattle and does not include other expenditures associated with said operation.

            Here is another “partial accounting” gleaned from the contract cowboys concerning their employer’s payment for rounding up the cattle. ($3 Million) http://www.naturalnews.com/044746_animal_atrocities_mass_graves_Bundy_Ranch.html#
            I am not familiar with the owner of this service but his CV & record of investigative journalism seem impressive at first glance.

            I suppose, if I continue conversing with you, I should begin by posting a legend & terminology key at the top of each exchange so that you won’t have to lament that I am saying the BLM declares endangered species and pretend as if I do not understand the inner workings of government or its myriad departments/agencies. For future reference, when I am referring to this administration’s “government” as a whole, I tend to generalize its departments in light of things such as cross-departmental corruption as has been displayed by the FEC, IRS & DOJ working as a cohesive unit to shut down political dissent from conservative groups, I may use the term “THEY” with it not particularly meaning BLM, EPA, Fish & Wildlife etc.. etc.. The government did this and THEY were wrong.

            Here is another source citing the facts (as he sees them of course) News is no longer news, it is mainly opinions and I generally read a variety of sources then form my own opinions as I refuse to allow the NYT or anyone else dictate what my thoughts, speech or opinions on any matter should be. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/04/27/bundy_is_wrong_but_so_is_federal_corruption
            __overreach_122427.html

            You can watch the videos (from multiple sources as well as citizens there on the ground) of the BLM operation, count the helicopters for yourself as well as the convoy of vehicles (87) of which many were pulling trailers with other vehicles (ATVs etc.) as the BLM made its withdrawal. The only thing I expect from you or anyone else, especially educated people, is intellectual honesty over political ideology.

            Concerning the government closing the tortoise center & having to euthanized tortoises, they wound up releasing many of those pets into the wild anyway. Further, with the government spending $55,000 each to relocate tortoises, just out of curiosity, where do you think that money went & how much do you think it really costs to feed cattle dung (their main diet & source of water) to turtles? For that matter, $55,000 would be enough to move a trainload of goods from one coast of the US to the other, rather than a single turtle that can be hand held and carried.

            I feel that you are saying because of the innuendo laden articles, Reid looks bad at times rather than the fact that Reid is bad. Just like Bush and all the democrats voting for war with Iraq based on multiple intelligence reports. It looks bad for Bush & company but doesn’t mean anything right? The old axiom of “Where there’s smoke there’s fire” is more than applicable here, acutely so when one considers the level of smoke surrounding Reid throughout his life as well as his being repeatedly protected by political allies from investigation and prosecution.

            All of these things coupled with the fact that several environmentalists/scientists have submitted reports that the tortoise is actually benefits from the cattle and is harmed by the solar power farms in total contrast to the government’s (politically and monetarily motivated) claims which led to the BLM and Company (aka the government) reducing herd sizes to 150 head while implementing monthly grazing fee schedules, which put all of Gold Butte’s ranchers out of business, save Bundy anyway, is like any other scandal in the US. You can either follow the money or the ideology to get to the bottom of it all and I guarantee it has nothing to do with a desert tortoise and will be shown as such eventually.

            In any case, as far as I am concerned, our conversation (bickering on generalizations and syntax) is over unless you want to try to point out more specious asseverations such as the BLM doesn’t declare threatened species etc..

          • JMax

            Apology accepted. My tongue is constantly sore from having to bite it.

            I started a lengthy response point by point, but it got to be pointless so I’ll abridge it and you can respond if you like.

            ” I have recordings from planned parenthood this year confirming the targeting of black babies.”

            I would love to hear or watch these recordings.

            I have read as many as ten articles on the Treaty of Guadalupe and found ceded and conceded to be used interchangeably, so to debate that point any further is fruitless as well as irrelevant.

            http://www.chacha.com/question/what-were-the-land-concessions-in-the-treaty-of-guadalupe-hidalgo

            “you obviously have the same capabilities to get that information and review videos of same.”

            It is not my job in this or any debate to find the evidence to back up my opponent’s claims. I googled your claim and found nothing. That’s as far as I go. You watched videos? Link them here and I’ll watch them.

            “I watched the videos of everything going on there and never saw any militia member (or anyone else for that matter) assault anyone. The only violence, threatening and killing done on the Bundy operation was done by the BLM and I did see agents tazing people, slamming a pregnant woman to the ground, tackling a 60 something year old female cancer survivor, shooting cattle from helicopters and the cordoned off 1st amendment zones etc..”

            “You can watch the videos (from multiple sources as well as citizens there on the ground) of the BLM operation, count the helicopters for yourself as well as the convoy of vehicles (87) of which many were
            pulling trailers with other vehicles (ATVs etc.) as the BLM made its withdrawal.”

            I’d love to see these videos, too.”

            “as has been displayed by the FEC, IRS & DOJ working as a cohesive unit to shut down political dissent from conservative groups”

            http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2014/04/23/3429722/irs-records-tea-party/

            I’ll watch any specific videos you link to.

          • Mark Rushing

            Cannot respond in full at the moment however I will get back to you when I have more time. Citing thinkprogress.org is priceless. These are the same people stretching so hard for leftists racism accusations that they recently accused white people of breathing cleaner air than non-whites. I will not even visit that site.

            I did not say it was your “job” to verify anything I said. You may do as your wish. I said that I verify everything and make my own decisions/form my own opinions whether there are links posted or otherwise. I know that is not what I said verbatim, however it is the gist of what I communicated so any accusatory remarks or corrections on your behalf regarding same should be deemed unnecessary.

          • JMax

            It’s pretty obvious that in general non-whites who more often live in urban areas breath dirtier air than whites who more often live in rural and mountain areas. So what’s your problem?

            You asked me to read realclearpolitics and the Washington Times, which I did. You can’t read Think Progress?

            I really would like to view the videos and/or audio clips you cited.

          • Mark Rushing

            Right, so why are we spending billions each year to pay rural areas in Africa for the U.S. ruining their air? I believe that people of color far outnumber whites on this planet anyway and as those Africans are breathing some of the purest air in the world, how is it that whites breath cleaner air?

            My problem is that you guys are so full of crap that it is pathetic. A true disservice is being done for people actually do experience discrimination and racism. This constant disservice is done by the overabundance of the pseudo-intellectual, white, liberal, elites that constantly cry racism over things such as whites breathing fresher air.

            My daughter is bi-racial, my brother is black, most of my friends are black, yet it is always a white, know-nothing, liberal that assumes me to be racist simply because it is their fastest way to silence dissent. Anyone not buying into the socialist narrative and daring to disagree with their idiocy and challenge their BS with facts is going to be labeled a racist or any of the other obes and isms created by the left.

            This is my last response to you because it is a waste of my time in that even if you do possess the intellectual ability to grasp the facts, you are incapable of ever realizing or accepting the truth. Unadulterated, willful ignorance agitates me. Things such as who keeps pushing all of the blacks into the cities? Who is it that, as we speak, is rolling out policies and legislation going along with Agenda 21 to depopulate rural areas within the U.S. and planning “sustainability” strategies based on the premises of “global warming” which have already been debunked and which will serve to essentially force resettlement into urban areas? All under the guise of population safety, minority assistance and environmentalism. Even the pathetic propaganda services such as MSNBC have reported on it recently.

            Since you cannot debunk anything I say, as Americans are forced to do every day by the main stream media who refuse to post retractions when proven wrong, because you are either unwilling or incapable of performing research to verify or debunk anything, I will give you a single link to an unknown guy dedicated to actual journalism and truth who has posted links to a lot of credible information from a variety of established sources and you can take it from there if you want to see the videos and know the truth. If not, I do not really care because socialists and liberals are simply sheeple that are too dumb to realize it and thus will ultimately become a non-issue for either side anyway.

            http://ascendingstarseed.wordpress.com/2014/04/22/bundy-ranch-senator-harry-reid-bureau-of-land-management-blm-cattle-conflict-showdown-revolution/

            In closing, thank you for your comments and replies. I hope you have a nice life and wish you success in any endeavors that are not counter to American interests.

          • JMax

            “This constant disservice is done by the overabundance of the
            pseudo-intellectual, white, liberal, elites that constantly cry racism
            over things such as whites breathing fresher air.”

            What horse manure! Nobody, least of all Think Progress, was talking about rural areas in Africa. It is a fact that air in and around cities is more polluted than suburban and rural areas. In America. It is a fact that people of color are more likely to live in polluted areas than whites are. Think Progress was not suggesting any racism in this. That is a figment of the imagination of the lunatic right wing.

            http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/04/24/468581/new-epa-rules-help-communities-of-color-breathe-easier/

            “it is always a white, know-nothing, liberal that assumes me to be racist
            simply because it is their fastest way to silence dissent.”

            Who assumed you to be a racist? Not I.

            Oh God! Agenda f**king 21? Holy s**t! The only thing MSNBC is reporting about Agenda 21 is about the lunatics who believe in the Agenda 21 conspiracy and are running for office.

            Agenda f**king 21. Well now I know what I’m dealing with here.

            “you are either unwilling or incapable of performing research to verify or debunk anything,”

            I’ve debunked all kinds of things you have written here and provided links to original sources from my research.

            But I’m still waiting to watch the videos. They might convince me, but at this point I don’t believe they exist since you won’t link to them.

            Andrew Bartzis, a “Galactic historian” (?!) whose web page says, “A resource for Starseeds, Lightworkers and all others on the journey toward building a New Earth!!”

            And you’re worried about Agenda f**king 21?

          • Mark Rushing

            So it doesn’t exist then? http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/spec/aress19-2.htm I don’t care if you believe they exist or not. Anyone that reads this and actually wants to know can view the videos by doing a simple search that you are incapable or unwilling to do.

            No thinkprogress was not talking about rural Africa. I am. You do not have very good reading comprehension skills and if you cannot figure out I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the thesis all I can say is WOW..

            As for that galactic crap, I saw that too but read the article by the guy that was posted on the site and all of the links to government sources etc. are valid. At least he possesses more intellectual honesty and journalistic integrity than you possess. As I stated, I do not care what you believe. You are just practicing the four D’s as set forth by the DNC.. Deny, Disrupt, Degrade & Deceive. It is all you people can do.

  • savage24

    Mr. Goldberg, it is not the admiration for a man that has broken the laws that you accuse the TEA Party/conservatives of. It is the abusive use of force that the federal government uses against American citizens that bothers us. I would rather stand with Bundy, even knowing he is wrong, than side with a government with a police state mentality. If this government would chase the Mexican drug cartels out of that U.S. government land on the Arizona border instead of putting up signs warning American citizen not to enter, maybe, just maybe I would support it and the RINOs that make up this bunch of cowardly politicians.

    • 4deuce

      It’s darn hard to find any fault in your observations about the Fed’s misplaced priorities regarding the Illegal Invasion. So of those with high name recognition tell us that the flooding our our sovereign nation are acts of love. However, if I would stop to give serious consideration to that sentiment, I woulkd also have to stop and patiently hear others suggest that this flood of illegals coming into the USA is actually a jihad against American sovereignty. If I listened to one argument and had some partial agreement with it, I would also be honest and partially agree with the other sentiment. The BLM events in Nevada and now unfolding in Texas certainly makes it seem that the BLM is indeed one of America’s newest, large scale bullies. Each day, more of these bullies are stepping out onto the scene – brandishing automatic weapons, wearing body armor and sporting attitudes clearly adversarial and confrontation with regards to the very people who in fact are their employers.

      • legal eagle

        Screw the BLM…..the new right wing bogeyman….

    • JMax

      Do you want a military that costs as much as all other countries’ militaries combined or do you want more guards and thousand-mile fences on the border? Or do you want both and not care about the deficit?

  • cantonst

    Agree with you and with Paul Vasek (comment below)…

  • Paul Vasek

    I don’t like the term “hard right”, but I am a conservative and Bundy is no hero. The government, however, did overstep its bounds and Reid’s comments after the fact, were ugly.

    • Hammockbear

      Totally agree with you.

      • 4deuce

        Both Harry Reid and our Federal agencies are supposed to be smarter then the average cattle rancher. While Bundy may have overreated and while he might be wrong, all of those emormously high paid bureucrats and lifelong politicans are supposed to be smarter than an a average guy like Bundy. But in my view, the BLM acted like Hannibal’s invading army, did significant property damage and generally displayed a penchant for engaging in old fashsioned pillaging. We all should be justified in holding the BLM and the Minority Leader of the US House of Represntatives to a higher standard of conduct than Cliven Bundy.

  • Invictus_Lux

    Mental illness Mr. Goldberg.
    It’s the heavy handiness of the gov that is the issue here – sending in mercenaries and contract provocateurs to provoke an execution of a white fundi to set an example and to appease the fascist left is precisely what Democrat administrations do at least once per elected democratic president (ref. Ruby Ridge and Branch Davidian’s over the top execution of a bunch of innocent people).

    Why can’t you wake up and see what’s going on. Get out of your ivory tower and walk around a bit.

    Bundy’s crime is trivial. Welfare grazing of useless and unoccupied federal land (land that should have been ceded back to the states long ago) to further beef and dairy production in win win for everyone since he’s producing a product that generates both profits and taxes for the state. Why not send in paid mercenaries and contract hitmen on the 10s of millions of free grazing EBT card class that’s grazing at the teat of the American taxpayer all their lives to the point of drawing blood as the teat runs dry?? It’s time for the insanity and heavy handedness of way over militarized fed agencies to STOP.

    • JMax

      sending in mercenaries and contract provocateurs to provoke an execution of a white fundi to set an example

      WTF?

      • Invictus_Lux

        Oh come on Jmax you can’t be so naive to not see what’s going on are you?? Look at the video of those BLM armed men – bearded, heavy sun glasses, top of the line sniper weapons and automatic weapons – MERCENARIES – contract hit men of the kind used by CIA and State Department all the time in foreign operations. They’re turning their guns on us domestically now. ALL the big fed gov agencies all have large embedded SWAT like weapons teams now and use contract killers/mercenaries for cases they want to give themselves isolation from any push back so gov can say “they were contractors who acted on their own without permission or authorization to shoot to kill”. We’re in a gawd damn civil war – pick a side fool.

        • JMax

          WTF?

          Oh, wait. I think I hear the whirring blades of the black helicopters now. I’m gonna grab my 107 and shoot those f**kers right out of the sky.

          While I’m out, could you send me a link to “the video”, please?

  • Mark Brickey

    Goldberg is showing that he keeps moving (if ever been) away from a Conservative with many of his commentaries. This is USA not USSR so for the BLM to even HAVE a swat team or armed agents is oxymoronic except when we’re talking about a over reaching Federal behemoth.
    This is exactly why the 2nd Amendment is of paramount importance. Yes, we all agree that Bundy did & is “breaking the law” but we on the Right see that this “law” shouldn’t even BE in existence! The Federal Government has no constitutional authority to hold/own manage huge tracts of land that are/should be under the control & jurisdiction of a sovereign State.
    When Jefferson & other presidents purchased lands, it was from other countries & through treaties, acquisitions of War, etc. not from 1 of our constitutional States.
    If a State agrees to allow the Federal Government to build & operate a military base or something like that, I don’t think there’s issues. Otherwise, how would we train & maintain a strong military?
    But for the Federal Government to “quietly” acquire millions of acres – upwards of 80% of a Sovereign STATE! – is outragious & anticonstitutional. There is no writings in the Constitution giving that sort of power to the Feds.
    This also goes even for the BLM itself. What jurisdiction does this have except that granted arbitrarily by whomever is in power? We didn’t elect these guys, we have no control over their activities, so we can & must present our 2nd Amendment rights & stand up to this.

    Otherwise, we’ll not be the USA any longer

    • supie

      You’re off the mark here Mark… WAY of the mark !

    • brickman

      Nevada was acquired by treaty from Mexico.The US government paid for it.

    • JMax

      You don’t know what you are talking about.

      The Federal Government did not “quietly” acquire millions of acres “upwards of 80% of a sovereign state”. Ownership of that land by the public (Federal Government) was a condition of statehood for Nevada in 1864.

  • supie

    Well, how about Bernie today… he’ll not be welcome at fox news if he were to express opinions like this very often. Reminds me of when Golberg was a
    legitimate newsman… and, I might add – he’s right on point about bundy.

    • legal eagle

      Bernie still is a legitimate newsman…but only on HBO…

      • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

        Good point, legal. Someone’s only legitimate when they’re not saying things you don’t like.

  • dld

    I don’t think I see Mr. Bundy’s remarks as racist. From his grammar usage and possible limited education, I feel that he expressed himself the best he could. He probably isn’t polished nor does he have a college degree in journalism. If you read between the lines, he shows concern that many of the “Negroes” on welfare (or anyone for that matter) have not advanced very far since they are depending upon the government to sustain them.

    The fact that ‘many of them (and much of America) abort their young’, and they ‘put their young men in jail’ (because of some type of crime or drug dealing due to not having a good work ethic) He expresses concern that ‘young girls or kids have nothing to do’. Maybe his reference to “picking cotton” refers to learning the work ethic no matter what the work is. He may feel that if people are on welfare, many of them become enslaved to it (since a minimum wage job may not offer much more money at first (until they worked their way up). Maybe from the perspective of his era, he feels that being forced to “pick cotton” is more respectable than sitting around doing “nothing” or doing the wrong thing and going to jail.

    No matter what Mr. Bundy’s reasons are for not paying his taxes on that land, the government was way out of line in the force that it used and the money that it cost the taxpayers to try and make their point.

    • smorkingapple

      Lord, help them, they do not know what they do.

      If you can’t see how racist that comment was, I’m questioning your beliefs. Stormfront member maybe? N-mania possibly?

      So being forced to pick cotton is more respectable than sitting around and doing nothing.

      This guy probably has a “freedom” sticker on his bumper too.

      • nickshaw

        C’mon!
        And you probably have one that says, “They’re all racists!”

      • notalib

        You left wing loons have one major response to almost everything you don’t agree with. They are a racist; you are a racist; you’re stupid and a racist.

        You know nothing about Bundy but he makes a comment you don’t like and he a racist.

        I suggest the issue isn’t about Bundy, it’s the feds, and I’m a stupid racist. You take an issue and try to twist it so its racism making people run away from the real issue. Well, scr*w you libs. You libs have been the biggest impediment to freedom and economic slavery this country has ever seen.

        Yea, I know, I’m a stupid racist.

        • smorkingapple

          WHat if I called folks “the Jews”. And wondered aloud if their lives would have been better off under Holocaust conditions?

          Would you call me an anti-Semite?

          What if I said I don’t see Farrakhan’s rhetoric as anti-Semite? And I tried to explain it away using his lack of education? Or some comment he made where he seems sympathetic to the plight of Jews?

          Would you call me an anti-Semite?

          See how absurd you sound?

      • dld

        I don’t think he meant picking cotton literally and I don’t think he meant they should go back to slavery! I think he just worded it incorrectly and got misconstrued. He was making a comparison between working even if it was menial work like picking cotton or sitting around doing nothing and living off the government. Just because the ‘racist’ is so hot today, everyone jumps on it to make an issue in any way that they can.

        • dld

          P.S. I am not prejudiced and I have mixed race in my own family.

        • smorkingapple

          Oh and Farrakhan didn’t mean it either when he said his remarks about Jews. It just got misconstrued.

          Al Sharpton, Jesse JAckson, them too.

          Rev Jeremiah Wright? The GD America comment? Totally misconstrued.

          Let’s play the “they didn’t mean it literally” game all day bro. I’m game.

          • Hyperbolic Dumbass

            Take the time and watch the raw video, not the excerpt, with an open mind and you might get a different perspective.

      • dld

        Everyone interprets or sees things differently. You expressed your opinion and I expressed my opinion. And don’t question my beliefs because I am not prejudiced and as I mentioned below I have mixed race in my family and feel all people are equal.

    • sinz54

      You don’t have to have a Ph.D. to realize that NOTHING is as bad as slavery. Not even death.

      Throughout history, men have willingly chosen death over having themselves and their families sold as property.

      To claim that human beings treated as property in the slave era “didn’t have it so bad” is to have ZERO understanding of the preciousness of human freedom.

      Let’s see if Mr. Bundy would like to be treated the way the black slaves in the antebellum South were treated.

      Let’s see if YOU would like to be treated that way.

      • Franklyn Douglas

        BRAVO….I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER. All the people rationalizing his comments sadden me. Why can’t the just that he’s wrong and leave it at that.

        You hit the nail on the head with your post though…thanks

        • dld

          I wasn’t trying to ‘rationalize’ Mr. Bundy’s comments and poor choice of words in comparing collecting welfare against working. I don’t think he sounded prejudice. He sounded concerned about the entrapment of welfare but apparently didn’t explain it well enough regarding the two comparisons.

      • dld

        Mr. Bundy didn’t say that they should go back to slavery! He was using the ‘picking cotton’ work ethic as a job that is better than sitting around doing nothing and collecting welfare, in my opinion.

  • joepotato

    If Cliven Bundy is going to remain a public figure, he may need a speech writer or PR person… Dealing with the media is not his strong suit….

    • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

      lol. I think we all can agree on that.

    • Icansee4miles

      Yeah, he has to learn to lie like Romney to make it in politics; no, wait a minute…..

      • legal eagle

        Like Romney lied about being “severely conservative”?

        • Jeff Webb

          Yeah, shame on Gov. Romney for lying about his mother’s ordeal with insurance companies, and telling that whopper about his being fired upon by snipers, plus the bill of goods he sold that people could keep their doctors and/or insurance, and don’t forget that shameless claim that four people in Benghazi got killed by spontaneous protestors who overreacted to a video.

          Yep, you’d never vote for someone that dishonest.

          • sjangers

            That s.o.b. did that?! I can’t believe I voted for him.

          • Jeff Webb

            >>That s.o.b. did that?! I can’t believe I voted for him.<<

            Oh, don't get me started. Hell, I knew long ago Romney was trouble when he wagged his finger and said he did not have relations with Ms. Lewinsky.
            It shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone when he claimed every single American talking about the problems Obamacare caused him/her was a liar.

          • sjangers

            And he seemed like such a nice, clean-cut guy. I may never trust again.

    • 4deuce

      But does he lie with as much frequency as so many at the highest levels of our government who have PR personnel working hand-in-hand with them every day? So far, I may have heard Bundy make halting, stumbling, clumsy remarks< But I do not hear as much plain simple lies as I hear routinely from Senator Harry Reid.

      • smorkingapple

        SO far, I may have heard Bundy make halting, stumbling, clumsy remarks.

        Farrakhan makes those too. You giving him a pass on his statements?

  • RoscoeBonifitucci

    Not saying Clive is right, but one must consider why does not Jack booted Federal thugs show up at Al Sharpton’s crib…and also Jesse Jackson & Screwy Louie Farrakhan? Al Sharpton owes $1.9 million to the Feds. Why are just conservative American Patriots Targeted? Clive’s family grazing rights go back to 1870. There is appropriate legal precedent to handle such issues that do not include shooting cattle, brute police-state force, Special Operations forces, etc. We are a Nation of Laws…not like Russia or China. If we handle our Leftist Progressives (read Marxists) differently than other citizens, this is an Abuse of Power and deserves Impeachment at the highest levels. Richard Nixon abused his power and was forced to be removed from office for far lessor scandals than Barack the Magic Marxist. Bill Clinton was Impeached. Obama is a certifiable Enemy of the Republic…but Libtards everywhere continue to heap false accolades upon his Narcissistic and pathetic persona. Just saying…

    More so, why is our Federal Governemtn under the “leadership” of Barack Obama making war upon American Citizens? Our President is a Left-Wing Zealot who is Delusional. His Pot-Stained Brain lacks Good Judgement, Emotional Maturity and Self-Control.

    Because of his Choom Gang Days, his amygdala is the size of a Lizard’s and he cannot tolerate his ever increasing Failures. By the way, they are EPIC FAILURES. He is the president who wages war upon US Citizens and precipitates WWIII because of his Pot-Stained Brain.

    • nickshaw

      I’m not sure just conservative Americans are the target for this administration.
      Remember, Bundy’s problems started long before Skeeter came along!
      It’s just that it seems “the law” is a lot more militaristic and ready to pull guns on folks these days.
      But, your point about Sharpton and any number of prog / lib miscreants do seem to skate by, has merit.
      Of course, the difference is, who will make the biggest stink in the media if the government acts in this manner?
      They thought Bundy was a soft target, I’m guessin’.

    • legal eagle

      Thanks for sharing your hate with everyone….What a refreshing new and different point of view…

  • notalib

    The government hugely overreached. They had other legal means, such as placing a lien on the cattle. Instead they sent a huge armed force who threatened to shoot people. And they hand not thought the problem through on another angle. Who would buy the cattle? Apparently no one wanted to buy his branded herd. So apparently they shot some of the cattle. They made a huge mistake. Now their actions are viewed and read about all over the world.

    • smorkingapple

      Not any more, now the story is about a racist backward thinking rancher. Nice hero you chose champ.

      • notalib

        Bundy isn’t the issue. Overreach by government is the issue. Property rights is the issue. I can’t control what comes from a persons mouth–champ. So don’t try to turn this into a racial issue because it’s not.

        Read some of your other posts. You are card carrying liberal based on your comments.

        • nickshaw

          It think it’s spelled, “chump”. ;-)

        • Icansee4miles

          Better a Patriotic Liberal than a Tax Dodging TBGing Bundy Lover!!

          • Jeff Webb

            “Patriotic liberal”? lol

            Thanks for the reminder–I need to head on out to Contradiction Depot and pick up some jumbo shrimp.

        • supie

          and you’re a card-carrying nutcase. now – refer to my
          reply after your first post….

        • smorkingapple

          Uhhh, the guy broke laws. I thought you cats were the law and order party?

          This isn’t governmental overreach. This is someone sticking their middle finger up to the government for 20 years and finally getting what’s been coming to him.

    • supie

      you really need to get some facts notalib… your post makes you
      look stupid.

  • rider237

    with this, i’ll bow out….but i thought that i might address the “stupid people” label.

    the premises of Mr Goldbergs writing is incorrect. there are not a ton of right wing people latching on the Mr Bundy as some kind of rightest extremism.

    What is a hero? there are those that history names hero, and there are those who become the hero of the moment. Bundy is the latter. why? if he were representing an issue that mattered only to him, no one would care. no one would come to his aid.

    Bundy represents a couple of things. to many, he represents states rights. that’s a pressing issue right now, especially in the west, but should be for the whole country.
    He also represents a continuing problem in the west with the federal government taking, and controlling, so much of the land. that land does not belong to the feds, it belongs to us all, by way of the state. when the feds take land, the decisions about that land are made by elitists in DC. those elitist are owned by lots of outside interests, most of the tree hugger types.

    in my own state, much of the land that was ours to use for recreation and even ranching, is now “wilderness”. off limits to all except those on foot. even then, with permits or controls. why? by what right does the fed take 1000’s of acres and declare them off limits?
    what do we, the tax payer, get in return?

    Mr Goldberg is an example of another kind of elitist. he does not understand the issues, but thinks he’s perfectly right to call Mr Bundy and anyone who might support his issues, stupid.
    He seems to believe that only people who can elegantly express their ideas and values should be heard.
    elegance is great. it’s right up there with punctuation. it’s not required that one be elegant for one to be right….even if one is technically wrong.

    Mr Goldbergs article points out one of the very pressing problems in our society, although not the one he intended to highlight.

    • notalib

      Well said. Point by point you made Mr. Goldberg look—dare I say it–stupid.

    • Ted Crawford

      Curiously, at least since after the 2012 elections, I’ve watched Mr. Goldberg, and several other previously committed Conservatives and moderates, like McCain, Rove, O’Reilly, slip slowly, at first, but inexorably, into Obama apologists. Then several John (Wacko-Birds) McCain and Karl Rove, publicly attack and actively campaign against, with Tens of Millions of Dollars in funds, Conservative Republicans!
      What do they know that we do not? What makes them so very certain that this Progressive attack will be successful!

      • rider237

        all of those you mention have always been more of less moderate. i don’t understand moderates. i have always thought that walking the middle of the road was a good way to be hit by a truck.

        what bothers me about this is the Mr Goldberg has chose to take a stand on an issue he does not understand, and then call those of us who do understand it and support it, stupid.

        to bad he doesn’t put the same passion into real conservative issues, but then…he’d have to be a real conservative….

        • Ted Crawford

          Moderate is one thing, in fact under normal circumstances Moderate is exactly my position. I normally prefer to be somewhere between Ron Paul and Barack Obama, these ARE NOT normal times!
          To combat the Socialists, Communists and Marxists, emboldened by Obama, I’ve moved further right. Mr. Goldberg, Mr. O’Reilly, Mr. Rove and even Mr. McCain who has always been a Liberal, have decided to move further left.
          This, however, comparing a Man, who disputs the Government in a peaceful manner impacting no one else, with a group that disputs the Government with violence, destruction and even death, is unconscionably disgusting and decidedly Progressive!

          • sinz54

            Right.

            This entire hysteria is all about Obama winning a second term.

          • rider237

            it’s really not. it is because this incident has brought out a unique problem in the west. do you think that those folks who showed up on horseback went to avis rent a horse and got one for the weekend? no, they are people who live and work out here and run up against the idiocy of the federal government and it’s “land management” all the time.
            no doubt there are others with other agenda, but most of us who support what he’s done support him because we actually understand the issue…and the other over-reaches of the federal government.

            if the NV gov. had any nuts, he’d have sent his marshals out to confront the fed and stand up for his state. it’s way past time to resolve this and put the federal government back in it’s place….no matter who is president now and in the future.

          • legal eagle

            Good to see you’re defending a bigoted anti- government
            lawbreaker….That shows what great patriots you and Bundy are?

        • sinz54

          I consider myself center-right rather than hard-right.

          Try asking me what I believe,
          and why I believe it.

          I’m always open to discussing it.

        • legal eagle

          And you understand the issue?…….LOL

          • rider237

            i guess as well as anyone out here who has to deal with federal land use issues…and obviously better than anyone east of the Rockies, from what i can see.

    • 4deuce

      I must say that I have to agree with your statement that Bundy’s encounter with the BLM is something that strikes a chord in many in the USA. Had you or I read about Bundy’s failure to pay the Fed grazing fees (but I also hear he has paid these or other fees to Nevada), we may had all viewed Bundy as some guy trying to get something for nothing. But in 2014 we daily hear people who do not deserve called racists” because they disagree with a Big Government position and their advocatrs and we have a POTUS who engaged in a wholsale, colossal lie in selling his very own, society-changing signature piece of legislation. We hear the likes of Harry Reid invent lies saying Romney paid NO taxes and he gets away withit. He then says that people who DID suffer from the loss of their health insurance plans when ObamaCare came along are LIARS and again he dodged any consequences. When such things perpetrated on us by those who answer to US, and it happens on almost a daily basis – suddenly a stubborn cattle rancher in Nevada says “No more” and people relate to him and to his frustration and anger. Yes, it is the times and the mood of many, many average, decent US citizens that have made us all regard Cliven Bundy in a light we may not have regarded him in just 20 years ago.

  • Ted Crawford

    So Bernie, now you’ve assumed the Progressives tactics, of comparing Apples to Oranges, and demeaning people in the process?!?
    To Compare Mr. Bundy, who clearly is in violation of a Court Order, to OWS, who were a group that engaged in Public Debauchary, Assault, Rape, Robbery and Murder, a group who engaged in the arson and destruction of several major cities, and polluted Public Parks. Is disgustingly disingenuous, and decidedly Leftist in nature!

    • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

      Ted, I believe his point is that if a liberal group reacted to a similar situation the way Bundy and his supporters did, a lot of the conservatives who are now praising Bundy would be up in arms.

      I believe he’s right.

      There are obviously differences between OWS and the Bundy crew.

      • sinz54

        “… if a liberal group reacted to a similar situation the way Bundy and his supporters did, a lot of the conservatives who are now praising Bundy would be up in arms.”

        True.

        I don’t remember conservatives having much admiration for Malcolm X and his “Black Power” theories, even though he wasn’t even carrying a gun.

    • Drew Page

      Perhaps if the Jews in Germany had shown up with guns when Hitler began forcing them to wear ‘Star of David’ emblems on their clothing, seizing their property, pushing them onto trains and into the “showers” some of the six million that were mass murdered might have survived.
      Now I grant you, it would not have looked very respectful of legal authority.

      Our Declaration of Independence tells us that not only is it the right of citizens to overthrow a tyrannical government, but a duty.

      • sinz54

        We do NOT have a tyrannical government.

        We have a bunch of folks like you who are just freaking out over the fact that Obama won a second term.

        That we have an ultra-liberal President for the next 3 years is NOT a rationale for trashing the Constitution.

        If things are so bad that we need to overthrow the government, then they would be just as bad if Romney were President.

        This country could never have survived for 230 years if millions of Americans tried to overthrow the Government every time they lost a national election.

        • Drew Page

          I didn’t say we had a tyrannical government. I said our Declaration of Independence tells us that it is not only our right to overthrow a tyrannical government, but a duty. Read the Declaration of Independence sometime, you might learn something.

          It’s the Obama administration that is tyrannical. Using the IRS to target, harass and intimidate political opposition from expressing their views and/or seeking tax exemption for their groups is tyrannical. the Obama is also corrupt and inept.

          Where did I suggest “trashing the Constitution”? Your pal, Obama is the one trashing the Constitution. the constitution calls for the Legislative branch to make (and amend) the laws, NOT the Executive branch. Obama has changed the ACA law over two dozen times to suit his political ends.

  • Jim Austin

    Goldberg is correct. Bundy supporters showing up with guns to use as leverage against feds are threatening insurrection.

    • rider237

      is that a bad thing? should we not challenge our government when it over steps. are we to go along as good little sheep and do as we are told?

      • legal eagle

        Go wave a gun in front of a cop and tell him it’s your constitutional right to do so or you are protesting the big bad government..

        • rider237

          LOL. you must be one of those east coast city types. i have no problem with open carry here and they cops do recognize that it is my constitutional right. i would not do it in DC. not worth the bother. i figure those folks have chosen to live under silly rules and since i don’t have to live there, there is no reason for me to challenge them.

  • joepotato

    Hey Bernie, this dust up has nothing to do with the intellectual capacity of Cliven Bundy. It has EVERYTHING to do with the “Gestapo” tactics (remember Gibson Guitars) and the tyranny (or over-reach) of Fedzilla. It seems that Obama aka Soetoro or whoever he is, is fulfilling at least 1 campaign promise. He has just about achieved his goal of having a domestic security force just as powerful, just as well funded and just as lethal as the regular military. AND this force answers directly to him, with no congressional oversight, like they’ve ever stopped him anyway. With this much power consolidated in the executive branch, what could possibly go wrong? Remember how Hitler did it? We are getting a refresher course….

    • Icansee4miles

      You rednecks are right on schedule; just let the TBGRS be themselves; come on, make fools of yourselves, just in time for the elections! Raped women self abort sunk you last time; this Negro comment will remind the Great American Majority what Slimeballs the TBGR tribe really is!!

      • joepotato

        Weall, Skippy, I find you left wing dung bats entertaining at times, but at other times, downright boooring…

        • Icansee4miles

          Well, Joe Potato, as you are a TBGng Bundy Lover, your tag sure fits!!

  • legal eagle

    What Fox News doesn’t tell it’s viewers is whether the Bundy’s have filed tax returns? If so, they recognize the authority of the Federal government to collect taxes…If not, they are in violation of the law…

    • rider237

      they have paid their taxes. that issue came from Harry Reid, who loves to spout crap without ever being called on it. the only thing they are owing, which they dispute, is the grazing fees. that land was theirs to graze on by contract well before the BLM existed, and the addition of fees by the feds is what’s in dispute.

      • legal eagle

        The issue is that the Federal Court has ruled against them, on several occasions, regarding this dispute…If you want to differentiate between the terms fees and taxes that’s your choice….The dispute has been decided. The Bundy’s just don’t want to pay and are using ideology as a defense to a legal issue…

        • rider237

          tax records are public. or more to the point, the lack of payment of taxes is public record.

          as for differentiating between fees and taxes, the government does that. i tend to agree that all fees are taxes, but both states and the fed would argue that point.

          at any rate, the taxes he owes on property and other, are paid. the grazing fees are not. and it’s not like he can just go buy land instead of using federal land. the fed owns all the land. he has no other options.

        • rider237

          and, BTW, i’m not disputing that he’s broken the law. he has, by breaking the law, brought to light a real problem in the west.
          in addition, he’s brought to light a real problem with a government that thinks sending armed to the teeth troops against a rancher is an ok idea. they had plenty of other options, so one might ask why they chose this one?

      • legal eagle

        How do you know what taxes they have or haven’t paid?

    • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

      Legal, isn’t this usually where you tell Bernie he’s a right-wing shill for Fox News, just toting the network’s narratives?

      • sjangers

        Have a little compassion, John. This has to be very confusing for Eagle.

        • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

          lol. It won’t make a bit of difference. Bernie calls out people on Fox News and conservatives all the time, and legal still insist he’s an FNC parrot.

          It’s what his DNC emails instruct him to do. He’ll never go off-script and think for himself.

          • legal eagle

            In my opinion Bernie disagrees with O’Reilly 10% of the time and O’Reilly disagrees with the Fox News position on an issue 10% of the time….
            Let’s see who criticizes Bundy’s latest racist rant?

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            >>In my opinion Bernie disagrees with O’Reilly 10% of the time and
            O’Reilly disagrees with the Fox News position on an issue 10% of the
            time….

            Which is a totally absurd conclusion for anyone to make who has actually read his work and watched his segments on FNC.

            But don’t let reality change your mind, legal. Just stay on message and continue to spew the same nonsense, since it’s what you’ve been instructed to do.

          • legal eagle

            If my estimate is absurd what is your estimate? As you appear to be a cult follower of Goldberg and Fox News what am I wrong about?

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Try not to be an idiot for once, legal. Anyone who actually reads his work and listens to his commentary knows he’s his own man with his own opinions. And those opinions FREQUENTLY (not occasionally) differ from those expressed by the conservative commentators on Fox News.

            Let’s be honest… You already know this. But the tactic of a hard-left Internet troll like yourself is to attack the character of anyone who doesn’t instinctively subscribe to the liberal mindset. You see someone like Bernie – a conservative-leaning, independent voice of reason – as a threat to the modern day liberal movement. Thus you feel inclined to try and marginalize him as best you can through pure dishonesty. It’s the reason why you’re here. It’s what your mailing lists tell you to do.

            So let’s stop playing games, okay? No one’s buying your b.s.

          • Franklyn Douglas

            John Daly I am curious of your views on the coverage by the right of Mr Bundy and your views on his “better off as slaves” comments. I’d like your views unfiltered.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            I think Bernie pretty much nailed it on both accounts. I don’t get the people who are portraying the guy as a hero. I don’t think he’s an admirable person by any means.

          • Franklyn Douglas

            Thanks I agree too. And I’m just shocked by the number of people here that are trying to add nuance to clean up Mr Bundy’s words. He said them let them stand on there own. How can they not see how there support of his hateful or hurtful words make the right look bad. And more so give some black people that may be willing to give the GOP and the right wing media as second look some reason the have pause.

            Sometimes it’s better to just ….”what he said is STUPID and WRONG ” then move on to another subject.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            I think that many of us on the right are so sick and tired of falsely being called racists that we’ve almost become immune to the charge. Thus, on those rare occasions when a fellow rightie does or says something to legitimately earn the accusation, our instinct is to want to blow it off as well, and give that person the benefit of the doubt.

            I make no excuses for what Bundy said, just like I don’t for the racism we see coming from the left. Racism applies to individuals – not political leanings.

          • sjangers

            If you’re going to try to put a number on it, the percentages are probably closer to 25% and 25%- although sometimes it can be hard to tell exactly what O’Reilly is saying.

        • legal eagle

          Unlike John Daly, I may not always be correct but I’m rarely confused… LOL

          • sjangers

            Sorry about the misunderstanding, Eagle. There have been times when you appeared to be confused, but I was probably mistaken.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            In other words, you misstate things on purpose – not out of confusion. Keeping wearing that mantra like a badge of honor, legal. I’m sure you’ll find someone to admire you for it.

    • Drew Page

      Al Sharpton owes a hell of a lot of back taxes, so does Warren Buffet’s Berkshire-Hathaway group. When do you think the SWAT team will show up on their doorstep with the attack dogs?
      Point being that most people don’t sympathize with Bundy not paying grazing fees, but rather the over-the-top muscle flexing of the BLM. Had the BLM filed a lien against Bundy’s property, or had his bank account frozen, or had him hauled into court where a judge could have fined or jailed him, public reaction wouldn’t be much more than “ho-hum”.

      • Icansee4miles

        Sharpton pays his taxes, and doesn’t want to see the White Race enslaved; so save your lies for your TBGing Tax Dodging Cattle loving inbreds!

        • Hyperbolic Dumbass

          You’re hilarious. Have another toke.

          • Icansee4miles

            Thanks; but ringing TBGR’s bells is far more fun!!

          • Integrity

            Actually, the only thing that you have proven is that you know very little about most of the people who belong to Tea Party. Just curious, what part of their platform offends you? QED

        • Drew Page

          Hey, it’s the IRS that says he owes back taxes, save your B.S. response for them.

          • Icansee4miles

            This is for the States Rights Racists that can’t get over the fact that they lost the Civil War! And will have to suffer a Black President for 8 years! And will have a Liberal Woman-Hillary Clinton- for the following 8 years! Enjoy, TBGR Losers!!

          • Drew Page

            Read the Constitution sometime, that is if you can read. It says any rights not specifically granted to the federal government shall be retained by the Sates and by the people. Enjoy your food stamps while you can

          • Icansee4miles

            On Fox News, my colleague Charles Krauthammer goes further, making the point that romanticizing a rejection of federal authority often ends in embarrassment. “This is a man who said that he doesn’t recognize the authority of the United States of America. That makes him a patriot?” Krauthammer asked. Anti-government language has been a powerful rhetorical tool, but it is difficult to sever those sentiments from the neo-Confederate sentiments that trail stubbornly behind it. Maybe it is time to try to elevate a different path to conservative stardom.

            Get the point, TBGR Traitor??

          • Drew Page

            I seriously doubt that Mr. Krauthammer would share any of your views.

            My last reply addresses your rather inane comments about “states’ rights and the Civil War.
            As to your comments about having to suffer a black president “for the following eight years”, I believe we will have to suffer him only three more, but it will seem like eight.

            Regarding Hillary Clinton, I can only say that she served her country by refusing to provide the necessary security to keep our Ambassador to Libya,and the three Americans who gave their lives defending him, alive. Her attitude about their massacre? “What difference, at this point, does it make?”

            Before you call someone you don’t know a traitor, you ought to know something about them. I did two tours in Vietnam, serving in the Air Cavalry as a Medivac
            Huey pilot. When and where did you serve your country?

          • Icansee4miles

            Being in the military does not give you any special privileges to dictate how any of us should think. You sound like we should bend over to the TBGR mantra of, “States Rights, White Supremacy, No N*gger President, and Guns till I Die! ” Go jump in bed with Ted Nugent and Bundy; the American Majority will march forward into a better 21st Century U.S.A.!!

          • Drew Page

            You are the jerk using the “N word”, not me. I never asked for any special privileges because of having served in the military. What I did say was “Before you call someone you don’t know a traitor, you ought to know something about them.” Further, I never told you how to think; I don’t believe you have the capacity to think.
            Your silence about when and where you served our country confirms my suspicion that you never served in the military. Just as well, I doubt you could have qualified.

          • Icansee4miles

            I don’t give a damn about who served in the military; we live in a democracy. No, I am a businessman who creates jobs to export American products overseas, to make our economy strong. What have you done lately, except to ride on your alleged heroism? Or were you in the alleyways grinding prostitutes in Saigon while real men were dying for our country?

          • Icansee4miles

            Read Krauthammer’s quote, “This is a man who said that he doesn’t recognize the authority of the United States of America. That makes him a patriot?” Krauthammer asked.

            You TBGRS’s are traitors, pure and simple. Even your right wing hero Krauthammer knows the difference between a REAL Patriot, and a TRAITOROUS canker on the *ss of America!!

  • Mr. Common Sense

    Spot on Bernie. I lean right, but in this instance, the blubbering love from the FOX cast has really gotten crazy. I never agree with Bob Beckle, but in this instance I do. This guy should be in jail. By the same token, the Feds shouldn’t have done what they did.

  • Daniel

    That’s one way of looking at it Bernie. I wonder if the ranchers had crapped on the cars of the federal agents and turned a few over and burned them and then had a drug crazed party with lots of sex with willing and unwilling partners and then left tons of trash laying around for someone else to clean up, would the alphe bet press have looked the other way? Poor comparison Bernie.

  • Michael T

    Bravo Bernie.

    Well played sir.

    (BTW, my own brother is a cattle rancher and I would say the same to him. He needs to pick better heroes for this fight.)

    • rider237

      don’t we take our heroes where we find them? good grief, shall we list the flaws of Ethan Allen, Jefferson, JFK, Patton, MLK, etc.? are not some of our very best heroes those who stood up against the government? How many were perfect?

      • Herky86

        There are character flaws and there is ignorant and dispicable racism. This guy is a racist idiot, and does not deserve to be defended as somewhat imperfect. He is not a hero by any measure.

        • rider237

          that is your opinion and he does not have to be your hero. however, many of us, reading what he is alleged to have said, do not see it as racist. we see it as a perhaps inelegant way of expressing an idea that is often expressed in both the white and black community.

          • Herky86

            Making references to blacks as negros and that they would be better off picking cotton are clearly historical references aimed to inflame the discussion. Nobody in their right mind and certainly worthy of hero status would make this claim. I don’t know who you associate with, but these references are racist.

          • rider237

            maybe i am a good bit older than you are. certainly a good bit more tolerant of elders than you. negro is a term that was used not that long ago and was considered perfectly fine. it was the prefference of blacks then to be called negro. then we went to blacks, now the misnomer of african american. if you are a bit old, it gets old, trying to keep up on what is currently PC.

            i believe that his reference to cotton picking, which was not exclusive to slaves or slavery, had to do with doing meaningful work. again, if you are young or uninformed, you would not get that.

            as for the slavery comment, that question has been asked by many. a good many black people have made the comment that the welfare state is just another form of slavery.

            the references are not racist. they are historical. WE panic when we think there is a hint of racism in anything, and tend to try to get ahead of the game by assigning “racist” to the thing. that way people see us as good. we caught and condemned the nasty racist….correctly or not.

          • Herky86

            Rider I think we are closer in age than you think and I was in Birmingham when they took the water cannons to the protesters, so I know the whole transformation with the name as well. From what most people called blacks, negro was an improvement. I also think african american is foolish. But do you really think that Bundy was making the was the cotton reference to white sharecroppers as well? You’re too smart to believe that. My point is we are at a time when conservatives can make a real impact in this country. To celebrate a biggot like Bundy sets back our cause. We need serious change in this country and elevating people like Bundy will never allow it to happen.

          • rider237

            we are interpreting what he said. you interpret it one way, i another. fact is, we don’t know that he even said it, and we sure don’t know from what was printed what he meant, or even the context of the conversation.

            having had a great deal of experience with the press and the left leaning press, and the way they can skew things with artful editing, this part of the argument is the least compelling to me.

            i am not celebrating Bundy, as much as I am the fact that people are standing up against this government. that’s always messy. it’s always subject to argument. wasn’t Birmingham messy and dangerous? some of that was even illegal at the time….and it always draws a certain number of nuts.

          • Franklyn Douglas

            He said it. You can find the tape of his voice and I’m sure video all over the net. He even double downed on it a few times today. It’s time to cut bait on him and the slave commit.

          • Icansee4miles

            I would rather see you pick cotton, and to have your daughter serve mint julips to Massa; you need a taste of the whip to fully understand just how stupid you really are!

        • Gramps43

          Where is Bundy’s racism, I haven’t seen or heard any blatant racism from him? I did read that, apparently someone brought up the subject of blacks, he wondered why the black community, not as a whole but a substantial part, have so willingly, it seems, traded the slavery of the plantation for the slavery to the federal government. Of course who am I to speak, as a retired/disabled Vet. I am bound in slavery to the feds, if DoD decides to reduce my retirement check or my SS check gets chopped I can pitch a fit, but in the end I will have to accept it. People on welfare, no matter what their ethnic background, don’t have to accept that check. They do have the freedom to get a job and get off the public dole.

          • sinz54

            There’s metaphorical slavery (like you’re talking about)–and then there’s the real thing.

            You were never in chains.

            You and your family are not bought and sold on auction blocks like so many cattle.

            You are able to travel in America wherever you wish, without being subject to capture and sent back to your slavemaster (who would whip you as punishment).

            To live as a slave is so horrific that many free men preferred death.

            Don’t whitewash real slavery.

            We don’t do “Song of the South” anymore in America.

          • Franklyn Douglas

            Well said again

        • Drew Page

          Everyone who doesn’t kiss the government’s ass is racist, don’t you know that?

          • legal eagle

            Are you really defending Bundy’s racist rant?

          • Drew Page

            I don’t know what Bundy said, so I don’t know if it is racist or not. What I am suggesting is that any time anyone says something critical of an action taken by this administration they are immediately labeled ‘racist’.

          • Drew Page

            I have now read Bundy’s remarks. They were stupid and racist. Republicans and conservatives should disavow these comments. Bundy, by his own words has discredited himself and has lost any sympathy he might have otherwise had.

            I still believe that the BLM’s tactics in this mess were over the top. There are less dramatic measures they could have easily taken. The IRS has other legal means to recover back taxes. They can put a lien on property, freeze bank accounts and call on the courts for remedy. Bundy could have been taken to court, where a judge could have ordered him to make payment or jailed him for refusal to pay. Wesley Snipes found this out the hard way. The IRS didn’t have to send out the SWAT team with attack dogs to confront Mr. snipes, his family and his friends.
            Had the BLM taken the same approach to back tax collection as the IRS did with Mr. Snipes, there would not have been anymore outpouring of public sympathy for Bundy than there was for Snipes.

            What support there has been for Bundy, up to his stupid racial remarks, was based on a widespread anger at government overreach. The current administration’s use of the IRS to intimidate and silence political opposition; use of the NSA to spy on all American citizens in violation of the Fourth Amendment; and the usurpation of the Legislative branch’s authority by the Executive branch are examples of what many Americans regard as government overreach.

            These are the kind of things that I regard as abuses by the government, as run under this administration. these are the kind of things that lead people to support those who take a public stand against government overreach.

            Does that mean that Bundy was right in not paying grazing fees? No, it doesn’t. Does that mean that anything he does or says should be supported? Absolutely not. Nor does it mean that those who oppose government abuses of power should keep their mouths shut.

          • legal eagle

            http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/24/politics/bundy-and-race/

            Perhaps you should read Bundy’s statement….

            I believe your statement “that any time anyone says something critical of an action taken by this administration they are immediately labeled ‘racist'” is a bit of an exaggeration?

  • lemonfemale

    Thank you for this, Mr. Goldberg. Glenn Beck said much the same thing about if the Occupiers came with guns, what would we say? It’s a good caveat. But you point out that “at least one” of his supporters had a semi-automatic weapon. Unless he had a revolver, he would have a semi-automatic. Most guns are. And Bundy’s comments on “Negroes”, well he knows nothing about slavery as the South practiced it but he is saying blacks on government money are in essence slaves. Stupid. Bigoted, not necessarily. “Negro” is the preferred designation for themselves among blacks of a certain age. He may have grown up with that term just like I grew up with “colored”.

  • lark2

    Bernie, things are not as “clear” as you would like them to be. There are elements of the issue that support your thoughts and other elements that support Mr. Bundy. The Director of the BLM is a 34 year old former Harry Reid staffer that is grossly inexperienced and knows nothing. The BLM spent over 900K of our money to hire hundreds of mercenaries with guns to attack an AMERICAN family that has owned their land for over 100 years. Americans arriving with intent to shoot other Americans. The federal government has bought up millions of acres in this country – with questionable legal authority. Harry Reid and his son are involved in this “land grab” for personal gain and that needs to be examined. The BLM says the Bundy’s owe 1 million in grazing fees. I that is clearly so – and there is a question about that – they could have simply put a lien on the Bundy property. The BLM is USING some turtle they say is endangered as justification for their action but, they gave Harry Reid a exception to permit a land deal he has going in the area. Bundy is an old man and he made some comments recently that could be labeled as “racist”. Those comments – if accurate – don’t overshadow all the complexities of this situation. It is very clear that there is a lot of federal over-reach going on and people are sick of it. You seem a little too eager to dump on Bundy while “appearing” to be even-handed. Your Liberal upbringing may be leaking.

    • sos

      Bundy’s family purchased his ranch in the late 1940s. He does not and has never owned the public lands he is grazing on.

      He has been losing court cases regarding his usage of public land for 20 years. The last court case allowed the BLM to confiscate cattle to repay his $1 million in unpaid fees for using public lands without pay (mooching off public resources). He’s using taxpayer-owned resources for free and breaking the law.

      • nickshaw

        Everything else aside, the BLM needed a SWAT team to confiscate cattle?
        Is that what the government is allowed to do now?
        You owe money and they send armed men to collect it?
        And, I would submit, Bundy is taking better care of the land by having his cows graze it than the BLM is.

        • sos

          there were armed militia people making threatening statements. are you justifying bundy’s mooching off public resources? He’s been losing court cases on this for 20 years, it’s not like the BLM has been impatient.

        • Icansee4miles

          Maybe he should move his cows into your house; I submit that Bundy has the same right to take what is yours, as he does to take what belongs to the United States of America; which is ours!!

          • nickshaw

            Oh please.
            There’s a phrase to describe talking an argument into absurd territory.
            I’m sure you’re familiar with it if your comments are all akin to this one.

          • Icansee4miles

            I submit you are one dumb Tax Dodging Bundy loving TBGR!!

    • JMax

      Hardly anything you posted above is accurate. Just a few examples:

      1) The director of the BLM is 35 years old and has over 10 years experience in public lands management in the state of Nevada.

      2) No mercenaries were hired to attack anyone. The only “mercenaries” were the cowboys contracted to heard the cattle. Those in armed were federal agents who were there to protect the contractors.

      3) The Bundy family bought the property they ranch on in 1948, which if I’m not mistaken is 66 years ago. They did start grazing on the public land until 1954.

      4) The only Americans “arriving with intent to shoot other Americans” were the so-called “patriots” who arrived on the scene with weapons.

      5) The government did not buy up the land. The government (public) has owned the land under the agreement whereby Nevada became a state in the 1860s.

      6) There is no question about the legal authority for the federal government to own and manage the land.

      7) There is no evidence that Harry Reid have any potential for personal gain in this matter. This has been examined by the local media.

      8) The government could have put a lien on the cattle and property. One accurate thing in your post.

      9) The supposed land deal was in an area 177 miles away from the Bundy property and grazing area. It didn’t happen anyway.

      10) I’m almost as old as Bundy. Bundy is NOT an “old man” and that’s no excuse for his comments regarding “the Negro”.

      I’m quite proud of my “Liberal upbringing”.

    • Icansee4miles

      Another long winded racist!

  • criterionstalker

    Bravo.

  • RedinDenver

    The Bundy family themselves were not armed, Bernie. And you seem to ignore the questions many Americans have …. such as: Why does the Federal government own over 80% of Nevada land? Why does the government use such a huge show of force against one old man and his family? Why did they destroy his property (killing cattle, destroying water and fence systems, etc.). Many of us are sick of the ever-increasing power government agencies feel free to use against ordinary citizens.

    • Ronald

      Again he has been ok with the federal government until!…”Bundy brought his case in federal court, so apparently he does recognize the federal government when he thinks he might gain something from it. But the courts repeatedly ruled against him. Which makes Bundy more of a bad loser than a folk hero. He would surely have insisted that the court rulings be followed if they had gone in his favor!”

      • RedinDenver

        What exactly does your reply have to do with anything in my comment?

    • TheGilima20 .

      Huge? What are you talking about? He hasn’t paid for what others are paying for 20 years….OMG Stop treating this man as if he is breaking some new ground. He is a moocher, someone who has no respect that he needs to affiliate himself with militias that are par with Detroit criminals. Stop using this man and admit that you are all desperate for a hero and that you have no clue what you stand for. Wake up GOP.

      • RedinDenver

        HUGE:
        1. extraordinarily large in bulk, quantity, or extent
        2. of unbounded extent, scope, or character

        In my opinion, what Bundy is doing is an act of civil disobedience against a powerful and overly oppressive government.

        I never said Bundy was my hero. I only posed questions about what the government is doing.

        • TheGilima20 .

          Overly Oppresive? Wow, geez, I guess we could call Russia and similar oppresive cultures “overly overly overly oppresive” then?

    • Geekpondering

      “Why does the Federal government own over 80% of Nevada land?”

      Because nobody wants to own the land? Bundy’s other option if he indeed owns the land or wants to own the land is to pay property taxes on it (and maintain the land/fences/etc), which is generally more expensive than grazing fees. The vast majority of ranchers and loggers prefer the government owning the land and paying grazing fees than outright owning the land.

  • Brian Fr Langley

    I note very few folks are using the word sovereignty in this discussion. Sovereignty is the Independent control or rule over a geographical territory. U.S. States by definition are sovereigns over their territories. The Federal Government being a creation of the States, is actually only able to exert it’s own sovereignty under very specific (and constitutionally enumerated circumstances). That the U.S. should own some 85% of Nevada, creates untenable competing sovereignty’s. Thus this is not an open and shut case. At least until the U.S. Supreme court makes a determining ruling. For the BLM to move in (and exercise U.S. sovereignty) one second sooner, (to a SCOTUS ruling) should outrage both liberal and conservative thinkers.

    • joepotato

      In case you haven’t noticed… The constitution or the oath that the elite swear… Well, it means little or nothing to those in the rulling class, even those of the USSC… It would be nice if constitutional principles could be restored, but with the “crew” in DC, that’s not gonna happen.

  • rider237

    i am amazed at how hung up on the slavery comments some people are. we don’t even know if he really said that. the press is not always…accurate.

    bundy may have made an observation about the plight of the black family. it may or may not have been a valid observation, but it’s his and his right to think about and express his thought.

    my MIL talks about mongoloid children, and didn’t vote for that N***** even though she’s never met a democrat she didn’t like, and vote for.
    it’s generational and so what?

    it has nothing to do with the substance of the article or the situation. it’s odd and must be something taught to leftists as a deflection technique? can’t believe that so many would be unable to comprehend what he was saying….same thing many leaders in the black community are saying.

    looking forward to hearing some comments on the substance, from those who were sidetracked by the non-issue.

  • SkyCitizen

    Yes Bernie, Bundy is a moron and not very cosmopolitan but I ask myself why Bundy and why now? Why are General Aviation aircraft being stopped and searched without warrant tor probable cause within the borders of the United States by Customs and Border Protection? Abuse of the power of the IRS, etc..
    Why did the BLM back down from Bundy, they were legally on solid ground to seize property. Why has no one, to my knowledge, been jailed or killed by Government overreach?

    It’s because this Administration wants to characterize conservatives politically on it’s own terms. It’s so journalists have a ready made story tailored to the administrations needs. Journalists can simply report, without guilt, the facts of the story without questioning if there is a commonality of purpose for these specific areas of overreach. I have little sympathy for Conservatives who allow the liberals to continually define them but I also understand that it’s hard to do with a press that has abdicated its responsibility to maintain the hard won freedom of the press which once existed in this country.

  • Ronald

    Bundy brought his case in federal court, so apparently he does recognize the federal government when he thinks he might gain something from it. But the courts repeatedly ruled against him. Which makes Bundy more of a bad loser than a folk hero. He would surely have insisted that the court rulings be followed if they had gone in his favor.

    • joepotato

      Kangaroo courts with unconstitutional agencies preferring charges is so Hitleresque…. Welcome to the New Fascism…. Drink that Kool-aid!

  • American1969

    In part, I agree with you on one point: You can’t stand toe to toe with the Federal government and call them choice names and refuse to recognize their authority. In that regard, Bundy is in the wrong.
    However, the BLM had no right to come down on him and his family the way they did. All that over roaming cattle and unpaid grazing fees? I don’t think so. There’s more going on here. I suspect it has to do with the solar farms they want to put out there and the billions that some friends and cronies of this administration stand to make if it goes ahead. It has nothing to do with tortoises.
    The reaction from supporters of the Bundys had less to do with being supportive of someone stupid, and more to do with Federal heavy-handed overreach. Look at what they did to supporters that went out there—–“Free Speech Zones”? Excuse me? What were they so worried about that they needed to corral people into one area and violate their First Amendment rights?
    Conservatives support Bundy because he’s a victim of Federal overreach and overreaction. Besides, it’s always been in Americans’ nature to be rebellious to a certain extent. We don’t like being told what to do and we don’t like it when our elected officials forget whose really in charge of this country.

    • nickshaw

      I have yet to figure out what harm some cows will do to a solar plant.
      They are generally incurious and shy away from that kind of activity.
      Not to mention there would be little plant life for them to graze between the rows of panels.

  • Jarob54

    Well Bernie that’s a mouth full. Don’t pretend that you Bernard Goldberg believes for a moment that Cliven Bundy is the poster child for the conservatives in this nation, nor the Republican Party. He’s not. Period!
    There are always going to those who despise the government and will gravitate towards anyone who stands in defiance, such as Mr Bundy. While I can’t agree with Mr Bundys tactics or rhetoric, I do agree that the governemt is too powerful And has demonstrated a willingness to impose its will against their people.
    Bundy had his day in court, twice, and twice he has lost. He needs legal council that can broker an agreement with the government. But I can’t believe nor understand why the federal governemt felt the need to confront Mr Bundy with armed agents. Those images smakes of Banana Republics and the old Soviet Union. And speaking of the old Sovient Union ( same as the new Soviet Union) there was no such thing as private ownership of property. The privileged where given dachas to live in for the lifetime. Now it seems this government is seizing more and more land and be damned those who have owned the property for generations. So my question. Is there a dacha in our future.

  • Patrick Q. McLaughlin

    Occupy Wall Street did have a RALLY! They occupied a public park. Several people were assaulted, and a few were even raped. The Government did NOTHING. Do you remember Ruby Ridge. Do you remember Waco. Where does it say that the BLM,FBI, ATF, EPA, and every Other Initial Agency owns all of the land on this Continent. and we the people must obey, or be killed? Where in hell does it say that Bernie? Your more likable when your not so smug.

  • Mike

    Bravo, Bernie! A conservative critic of media who’s willing to stand up for common sense before political ideology. Sean and Clive , take note and get real… please!

  • metheoldsarge

    Dirty Harry Read said: “We can’t have, in America, people that violate the law and just walk away from it. So it’s not over.”
    Look who is talking about violating the law. They should put Dirty Harry’s picture in the Dictionary next to the word HYPOCRITE. This Bundy incident has given him quite a black eye and he will get revenge. It isn’t over by a long shot. That was just the first round. The three “Ps” were evident in how this whole thing was handled. They will be back and better prepared. They will not make the same mistakes. I would bet that his people have the names of all the Bundy supporters. You can be sure they are going over their backgrounds with a fine tooth comb looking for as much dirt as they can find. It wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of the Bundy supporters start disappearing or dropping out after getting visits from empty suits flashing federal badges. The voters in Nevada should have sent him to the showers when they had the chance. What is best for this country and the people is way down on Dirty Harry’s priority list if it is even there at all. You can also thank the NRA for supporting Harry in 1992, 1998, 2004 and 2010.
    http://gunowners.org/is-harry-reid-pro-gun-or-anti-gun.htm
    http://godfatherpolitics.com/8917/the-nra-got-harry-reid-re-elected/
    http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/homeland-security/274249-time-for-senator-harry-reid-to-take-a-stand-on-gun-control
    http://www.examiner.com/article/why-does-the-nra-support-harry-reid

  • 633

    The issue here shouldn’t be the rancher: he obviously doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on, and isn’t made to climb the tree of knowledge.Its the BLM response: they could/should have attached his property, and obtained a civil enforcement ruling allowing them to secure their interests from his revenue.Confiscating his cattle was stupid. Objecting to federal overreach or misconduct shouldn’t be construed as a sympathy for Bundy as a personality.

  • Herky86

    Bundy broke the law. Period. The BLM was way too aggressive in persuing Bundy as well, so there was rampant stupidity on both sides.
    As for his stupid comments. They are beyond reproach and he should be called out as the bigot and stupid racist that he is. There is no place for this kind of stupidity.
    Bernie is simply pointing out that the right needs to be as dilligent in calling him out now that he has shown his true colors, as they were in calling out leftist groups when they have done stupid things.
    If you are too narrow minded to see that what he has done and said is wrong, then you are no better than the Occupy morons crapping on cop cars!

  • bigmoejr

    Personally I think John Wayne is a WRONG example here. However I agree wholeheartedly with you on two points. Bundy is a s-it stirring moron. That also the BLM attack clowns were over prepared for and ill-briefed for the confrontation. BLM needs an attitude enema. As does the entire Obama Administration with the power grab and bullying tactics on every damned thing they do or, don’t do such as Benghazi.
    If I recall correctly John Wayne and Bob Mitchum kicked a few peoples ass at a Reagan fund raiser in California. Otherwise John was a patriotic law abiding citizen————–totally unlike the Bundy Clan. Wonder what Al Bundy thinks about this mess!!

  • Robert Silky Campbell

    I will continue to support Bundy! You can support the fascist liberal government who want to force us to allow abortions, gay marriage and tax the profits out of business’ etc…
    I would rather be known as a friend to a redneck, than to a turn coat.

  • Norman Yeager

    Bernie- I’ve watched you and His Majesty Bill O’Reilly The Great for a long time and usually admire what you have to say – assumiong that “The Great One” allows you to say a few words – but now that you have revealed yourself as a typical east-coast snoot, that admiration is slipping.

    I do not consider myself “of the Hard Right.” but I am a Nevada Republican and while elitist like yourself might welcome 200 Obama-Gestapo tropps carrying fully automatic Assault weapons in your neighborhood – I do not! We do not!

    At no time in your seething article do you mention that The Feds paid someone $900,000 to rustle Bundy’s cattle into Utah nor did you mention another someone being paid $300,000 to sell these cattle or how much it cost to equip and arm 200 Federal employees to disregard their Oath of Office and attack and kill unarmed Americaan citizens. I mean only Obama could have come up with justification to spend $2-million and more to collect $1-million. Not too surprisinlly, you also neglected to mention the Harry Reid connection! Must be a friend of yours, eh Bernie?

    That “stupid man” as you call him stopped them when you would not have, as will Greg Abbpot and Rick Perry will too – and this might happen sooner than most think.

    • Buckeye27

      The part that never ceases to amaze me is the logic behind the argument against the rancher. He “owes grazing fees for 20 years.” Does “statute of limitations” mean anything? He is breaking the law. Where’s the law that says federal agents can taser you just because? Just cause mean anything? Hired people at a cost of $966,000 to recover $1 million. How does an enforcement agency get mercenaries? At some point wage garnishment or ceasing his assets makes far more sense. Until someone can explain these to me, I think this is an effort to save face for certain factions of government and nothing more. I count more stupid acts on behalf of the government when they’re supposed to be the “more mature” amongst us. Harry Reid seems particularly interested in this guy getting squashed, that seems rather odd to me as well. I might be a “crazy right winger” but none of the “reasonable” arguments against me make sense.

  • metheoldsarge

    I had seen similar stories about this before the New York Times published it. I had also heard stories about the relationship between Read and Bundy and Bundy’s original Political Party of choice. I will hold comment until I get the information from more reliable sources.

  • Melvin_Udall

    “Ideologically pure conservatives” – This opening is meant as a negative, which speaks volumes of the author. It is also a ridiculously broad brush, which also speaks volumes.

    “what they call the overreach of the federal government” – the number of law enforcement, the size of federal lands, the lack of that law enforcement on the border, FIRST AMENDMENT ZONES, Harry Reid’s corruption int he area? I could go on. But it’s just “what they call”. Noted.

    “At least one that I saw on Fox had a semi-automatic weapon” – Most handguns are semi automatic. An excellent announcement of the author’s calculated hyperbole and bias.

    “bulletproof vests” – Are harmless. They are to prevent dying from being shot. But the author finds this evidence of evil.

    “What if the lefties from Occupy Wall Street held a rally” – You find them to be similar, flip sides of the same extremism? Noted.

    “But Bundy isn’t the final word about what’s right and wrong” – Straw man fallacy.

    “ideologically pure, hard right, friends” – How embarrassing for the author.

    “that is your hero” – Let’s assume he’s a racist. I’m unsure of how that relates to our concerns. Oh, wait. It doesn’t. But the author has joined with the Left to say that because Bundy is a racist our arguments are invalid. How intellectually honest.

    “so-called RINO’s – moderate Republicans” – Is this the outing of a Party purity non-conservative, all of them lacking the class or courage for honest debate? Or is this smug buffoonery in general?

    /////
    Why this should not be taken seriously in a nutshell. I’d fisk the article further, but why bother?

    • rider237

      Bravo that! you pretty well got it all.

      • Melvin_Udall

        Thank you. I find this and the condemnation from too many Republicans quite frustration.

        Democrats can have race frauds (Elizabeth Warren), racists, killers of women, sexual predators, tax evaders, and more on their side, and they double down in their defense without repercussion. Republicans chomp at the bit to jump for any SQUIRREL the left brings up to eat allies, or at least enemies of their enemies. It’s at best counterproductive.

        Best case scenario Goldberg is so eager to prove how objective he is he proved the opposite.

        Dan Loesch has a great piece up on this at The Dana Show. I’m not going to link it, but it’s worth finding.

  • Wilburn Smith, III

    The folks at MSNBC contend that Bundy’s use of the word “Negro” is such a vulgar racial slur they can’t even mention it on air, like the other “N” word. They ignore that MLK, Jr. regularly used that word, it was in common usage by other black leaders in their time and was part of the name of a nonprofit that raised funds to support historically black colleges (and which has since changed its name to an initialism.) That said, the word is archaic if not a slur, and is a function of Bundy’s age. The rest of what he said about blacks and slavery was despicable, and shows the man to be a bigot. I differ with Goldberg’s take on Bundy in that he’s not stupid, in fact he’s dumb like a fox. He knows exactly how he’s manipulating his fawning followers and some in the uncritical conservative press. He’s cleverly ignorant, like the Florida politician who years ago won an election by painting his clueless opponent as a “flaming heterosexual.”

  • Sam

    Thanks Bernie for calling out both parties when they’re being stupid. It’s refreshing and rare.

  • http://sisu.typepad.com SissyWillis

    I beg your pardon, Mr. Goldberg. I am a #TeaPartier from day one, a believer in limited government, fiscal responsibility and individual freedom. Does that make me one of your “ideologically pure conservatives”? Please don’t hold me or my fellow believers in the Shining City responsible for Bundy’s neanderthal mouthings about “the Negro.” Thank you.

    • joepotato

      Nazi Harry would consider you a domestic terrist… ;-/

  • Ronald

    All Bernie is saying is that we Conservatives have better options for heroes and Causes, than an ingnorant old man. That has no clue what his real cause is and is just enjoying the attention! We are better than this!

  • nickshaw

    This is really a tough one, Bernie.
    Did Bundy break the law?
    Yes, he did. By not paying the fees. But, is this the way the government is going to act when someone doesn’t pay fees or taxes from now on?
    Will they raid your house with a SWAT team and dogs to get that $200 you owe to Uncle Sam? (With hope, they will start with government employees who owe taxes!)
    As others have said, there are remedies for those who don’t pay fees or taxes that don’t require armed confrontation!
    Not to mention, the operation to remove Bundy’s cattle probably cost a lot more than what was owed!
    Could it be solely over the turtle? One tends to doubt that when they are killing the turtles they already have! How hard is it to drive (not like cattle, of course) a bunch of turtles out into the desert and set them free?
    Do the cows harm the turtles? I doubt that too. Cows tend to give things like turtles a wide berth and the land is not being (to my knowledge) overgrazed, taking food from the turtles. In fact, cows are good for the land if properly managed which, they are ’cause Bundy has been using the land for an awful long time and it remains productive.
    Did the militia over react to government over reaction?
    There’s the tough question.
    At what point does one start to fight back? Was the Boston Tea Party an over reaction to armed British rule?
    When and where, exactly, can one determine the “flash point”?
    As to the “racist” comment, perhaps he’s not the best orator but, many have said things in the same vein for quite a while without being construed as racist.
    “The Dem plantation” is a case in point. Doesn’t it have the same connotation?

  • Ryan Nichols

    I’m a conservative. And I don’t care at all about Bundy or his problems. This shouldn’t be a national story. Harry Reid shouldn’t be making public comments instigating the situation. Now with the “negros” comment this story will once again be top story coverage. But this time cnn and msnbc will try and tie this guy to conservatism.

    • nickshaw

      What, we can’t use “negro” in a sentence any more?
      Dingy seems to get away with it.
      I don’t actually find what he said, racist.
      He was stating a fact that there was more cohesiveness in black families (where they weren’t ripped apart by horrible slave owners who, I believe, were actually in the minority) than there is today.
      Could he have said it better?
      Well…yes.

      • Ryan Nichols

        I can understand that he was trying to make a point. A point that doesn’t necessarily mean he is racist. But of course his comments are going to be used to discredit him. And probably offend people, not that offending people is hard to do these days. But there’s no doubt he shouldn’t of said what he said. It will hurt his cause if you want to call it that. But he shouldn’t be tied to conservatism. He doesn’t represent me.

        • nickshaw

          It doesn’t matter what we say these days, Ryan.
          The left will always construe it as racist, misogynist or any number of “ists”.
          Yet, they manage to draw parallels to slavery every day without consequence.

    • rider237

      this is a national story for a number of reasons. one is that everyone in the west has run up against the BLM in some way. easterners don’t even know the agency exists, but we sure do. for 1/2 the country is an “it’s about time” story.

    • toddyo1935

      The darling of the “progressives” of all stripes is Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood. Now if she can say this, why not any of the rest of us?

      “We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to
      exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”
      Margaret Sanger’s December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts.

      I think the Far Left has succeeded mightily in finding race baiters among black ministers and academics to achieve their goals.

      Bernie – Glenn Beck noted the same comments on his show and some cogent reasons why Bundy may have attracted a shoot first crowd along with true patriots who actually understand the Constitutional ban on the Feds owning property other than what’s needed for bases and infrastructure. Of course that’s just Far Right clap trap in Harry Reid’s world.

  • jonshepp

    Hard Right?! I can’t make that judgment.

    I’m still waiting to view documents of exactly how much this rancher really owes in fees, ‘how and why’ those fees ever came about, what happened to the other ranchers in the area, why the federal government brought in high-powered rifles to demand fee payment as it did over wood at Gibson Guitar, and then an apology from Dingy Harry, the U.S. Senate’s (cough) role model that not only said the rancher and others were domestic terrorists, (a sounding board from the Southern Poverty Law Center), but that the rancher hadn’t paid his taxes, either.

    Harry Reid has been caught in similar lies to protect his fascist-like party so it could continue to be a fascist-like party. So where are the ‘non-party of death’ Democrats that should be correcting Reid to protect the ethics and people’s trust in their United States Senate? (Crickets, crickets, crickets.)

    Sadly, it is all a sign that one day in the future a historian will really write a book titled, “The Rise and Fall of the Republic of the United States of America.” You don’t even have to guess anymore that will happen, remembering that denial continues to be more than a river in Egypt and that when in Rome, act as if.

  • W

    I agree with much of watch you wrote , but I take issue with the use of paranoia to describe those who are confronting the government. Can anyone deny that the government’s reach into our private lives is just our imagination? The excuse for protecting a tortoise is ludicrous. The government has detonated how many atomic bombs in the Nevada desert and now they are worried that cattle are going to upset the ecology? The whole idea of ‘grazing rights’ seems like over reach to me. It is a desert for God’s sake. If the cattle don’t eat the grass will the desert suddenly bloom? What does it cost the government to let the cattle graze? My guess is nothing. This almost became another Waco because of out of control government. Mr. Bundy’s slave analogy was a poor one, but I think he meant that the government has enslaved generations of African Americans with hand outs. The White House has become the ‘Big House’ of plantation days. Many Blacks do not have any work skills which continues to condemn them to a life of poverty, i.e., economic slavery. We have a tax code that ensures guaranteed employment for accountants and lawyers. They will chase me down for a hundred dollars, but no one says anything when the government throws 500 million dollars of my taxes into the hands of political donors! Elected officials pass laws that restrict personal freedom for me, but exempt themselves. They pass laws called ‘hate speech’ which violates the Constitution. My words may be ‘hateful’, but I have a right to say them. Just read the history of the Revolutionary War! We the people have had enough! Our Republic has become an Oligarchy! Enough is enough.

    • nickshaw

      If anything, cattle help the desert to bloom if managed properly.

      • toddyo1935

        I think the tortoises consider the cattle as part of their food chain, if you get my drift.

        They’ll do great under those Chinese solar panels.

        • nickshaw

          Yes, I do. ;-)

  • Jim Pell

    In my youth, the word “Negro” held no pejorative connotation, and even today I refrain from using it simply as a courtesy to African-Americans who might take offense. And what Mr. Bundy has stated so crudely could be much better phrased, but his point has some validity, and many African-Americans today are making the same point: A much-too-large segment of the A-A population are wards of the government, involved in crime, targets for the abortion industry, or exploited by self-appointed leaders. If Bill Cosby says it, and Juan Williams says it, and Ben Carson says it, and Thomas Sowell says it, and Allan West says it, we ought not to despise Mr. Bundy for saying it, even if he says it badly.

    • sjangers

      However ineptly he may have phrased the rest of his sentiments on the subject, Bundy definitely went way over the line when he claimed that blacks may have had more freedom as slaves than they do today.

      • nickshaw

        How so? Liberals use the “slaves” analogy at least twice a day and they suffer no repercussions.

        • sjangers

          Use of the “slave” analogy for any purpose, unless completely accurate, ought to be avoided. It stirs up far too many deeply emotional responses, particularly on the part of people whose ancestors were forced to endure the experience.

          Claiming that blacks were better off as slaves than they are today is intellectually offensive, at the very least. Would you prefer to live in poverty and dependence but still have the freedom to change your circumstances? Or would you prefer to spend twelve or more hours each day in often brutal working conditions, as no more than property, subject to brutality or separation from friends and family on the whim of your “owner”? Would any reasonable person choose to be a slave over any sort of life in our society today?

          Bundy apparently feels that young black people today suffer because they don’t have the opportunity to “pick cotton” and live under the benevolent care of “massa”, and I suppose he’s entitled to that opinion. But saying it out loud is bound to be extremely offensive to millions of people whom he is judging without ever having had the “opportunity” to walk a mile or two in their shoes.

          • nickshaw

            I’m with you, Sjangers, and I’ve said that Bundy is not the best of orators on the subject.
            Sometimes the simplest analogy pops into one’s head and out it comes.
            For the record, not everyone believes that all slave owners were raging brutes.
            I don’t deny some slaves were subject to horrible conditions but, to think all slave owners were the same flies in the face of, if I may be so blunt, running a business properly.
            I’m not asking for a debate here, just stating what I think (I have to go to work! ;-)

      • rider237

        how are you free if your kids are in jail or pregnant and your “income” comes from the government?

        • sjangers

          You’re much freer than if you’re sweating in a field for twelve hours a day, six days a week, and your life is largely dependent on the whim of your master. Circumstances for people today are at least usually the result of personal choice. Choose wisely and benefit from that choice. Choose to better yourself and you aren’t dependent on government. How many slaves had any of the opportunities that anyone in our society has today? Anyone who lacks freedom in our society today experiences that condition, at least in part, as a result of their personal choices. Bundy apparently doesn’t begin to comprehend that distinction.

  • Icansee4miles

    Carpet bomb the racist!!

  • kayakbob

    In general, I have to go with Mr. Goldberg on this one, but not because “conservatives apparently are so desperate for heroes”. From what little I know of Bundy he isn’t exactly someone to emulate here. I read elsewhere that Bundy went to court…twice…and lost both times over this. As I read that, my mind did wander to OWS, so the connection isn’t all that out of bounds.

    Although I understand the support he as gotten and am glad there are those willing to stand (literally) with a neighbor, I would say there has to be someone out there that would be a better role model for ‘heroism’, for lack of a better term.

    • D Parri

      It is clear to me that the people who “supported Cliven Bundy” were not supporting the person as a result of some heroic act on his part but, rather, they were supporting the principle being represented by Cliven Bundy’s stand against a disproportionate response by the government on an issue where Cliven Bundy believes he is right.

      The people who chose to stand with Cliven Bundy on that one issue were not wrong, because the principle is a good one. Overreach of the federal government is a real and dangerous threat now, as it was in the days of the Boston Tea Party.

      Cliven Bundy, the person, lacks sophistication and unfortunately appears to have stepped directly out of the 1930’s or 1940’s, where a new generation of civil rights proponents was yet to be heard from.

      • kayakbob

        I do agree that overreach of the federal government is a real threat these days. And that is my point. I suspect there are far clearer cases of government overreach to point toward than Cliven Bundy’s case.

        Although you and I can look at the Bundy support and say, “ok, they are coming to the aid of an idea, not necessarily Bundy the person.” I am not so sure how many other people get that. And you can be damn sure the so called mainstream media won’t let that distinction be seen or heard. Unfortunately, the optics of an issue or disagreement matter to the underlying question – something Mr. Bundy clearly doesn’t understand. (Or maybe he doesn’t care. Who knows?)

        • D Parri

          I think that his lack of sophistication–socially, educationally, and maybe a few other general areas–preclude an ability to appreciate the point you made.

          He has already established a set of rules and principles for himself that are not likely to be adaptable for any new purpose.

  • rider237

    oh darlin’, i’m not even sure where to start with you :-) you east coast centrists are as bad as the leftists for not understanding where most of the country, D or R, are.

    i’ll start with my own amazement to have heard you easterners refer to the BLM as “an obscure agency”. that right there tell me most of what i need to know about your ( the collective) opinions. they are uninformed.

    Bundy is not a hero. he’s a banner. this is not a new fight, it’s an old one that just needed that banner. the fact that you don’t get it means that you have no idea what goes on in the west.

    until you do, your opinion and writings about it, are worthless.

    BTW…it was the feds who showed up with overwhelming force first. the people who came after were responding to that overwhelming force.

    bundy is an old man. he uses the word ‘negro’. so what. what he said was not polished, but not wrong.

    • Icansee4miles

      Another slave lover, cowering under the States Rights banner!!

      • rider237

        i don’t even know what you are talking about. care to clarify?

        • Ronald

          Saying that “Negroes” were better off as slaves is wrong! If you don’t think so then you might as well be a slave lover!

          • rider237

            he was talking specifically about those on the government dole. he was talking about the state of affairs of the black family in this situation. something that people like Star Parker have talked about in the same way.
            those who have traded freedom for the government teat have only accepted a different form slavery.

          • nickshaw

            And what is wrong with you too?
            He wasn’t suggesting a return to slavery!
            He was saying that black family cohesiveness is being affected badly by prog policies.
            That he used the analogy of slavery may have been a little over the top but, Dims do it all the time with no consequences.

        • Icansee4miles

          States Rights = Slave Traders = Wanna Be Tax Deadbeat TBGRS; get the point?

          • rider237

            not into history much, are you? maybe you should spend more time in study and less time posting your ignorance?

          • Jeff Webb

            Not gonna happen, Rider. He won’t be assigned any history reading until he’s in Jr. High.

      • Ryan Nichols

        I’m disgusted by Bundy ‘s comments. But he’s not cowering. Nor did he say he loves slaves. You’re no better than he, you further misinformation.

        • gil 42

          Did he consistently break the law? Cowering? He is an outlaw. Period.

          • Ryan Nichols

            Breaking the law is not cowering. In fact many might say it’s the exact opposite. He’s not hiding. He’s not crying out for protection and looking for groups to take up his cause for him. He didn’t pay federal fee’s. That’s it. And I’m willing to bet in the end, he will eventually pay.

            Outlaw lol. He owes a debt. He isn’t harming anyone.

          • gil 42

            He isn’t breaking the law? How about letting his cattle on federal land without paying his fees for decades and then threatening those officers charged with enforcing the law?

      • nickshaw

        What is wrong with you?

    • Gil 42

      So you think the country should bring back slavery?

      • rider237

        good grief. try reading for comprehension. that is not what he said, or what i said. also not what many black leaders have said when referring to the welfare state as another form of slavery.

        • gil 42

          You’re right, of course. The best way to promote conservative values is to make a hero out of a racist outlaw.

  • Buzzeroo

    Cliven Bundy’s comments relating to Negros proves him to have a stupid mouth which unfortunately reflects poorly on his ballsy principled stand against the federal government who arguably has no business owning land that is not related to government use—such as the land that they properly own that lies beneath federal buildings. The government’s usage of thugs, guns and attack dogs to go after him for denying them their illicit grazing fees is just as stupid as his unrelated comments were—-but infinitely more threatening to us all, So, here we have two moronic entities butting heads……………A long time ago, the revolution here was fomented and begun by a bunch of guys who’s thoughts and comments on social matters were undoubtedly as dumb as old Cliven’s while King George’s fools’ bullying tactics likely looked a lot like those vicious uniformed government paid hoodlums’ we recently saw in action…….Bundy probably wasn’t ‘correct’ in withholding payment but, in my view, the land in question should be owned by the state of Nevada….and if it was, then Bundy should have paid–pure and simple………Had he put every single payment in escrow in objection to and defiance of the federal stewardship of Nevada grazing land it would have been more ‘kosher’ but, that to the contrary notwithstanding, he has a valid point—–which remains so despite his vile stupid mouth regarding other matters.

  • http://sellingthesecondamendment.com/ Gregory Smith

    Let me give you the Libertarian-Right perspective.

    Occupy Wall Street are a bunch of commies that destroy public and private property, commit crimes among themselves, and want to transform America.

    Bundy and his friends are standing up to the illegal occupation of land that belongs to the State of Nevada. Land Mr. Bundy had used for decades until the feds decided protecting turtles was more important. They are orderly, they’re not destroying anything, they did not wrong.

    I stand with Bundy because he was to restore America, not transform it, he’s for the individual, not the collective, and he’s a real American, not a “global citizen” as Obama calls himself.

    • Icansee4miles

      Bundy is a good, ol’ fashioned racist. Pure garbage; nothing more.

      • http://sellingthesecondamendment.com/ Gregory Smith

        Racist? Show me his racist quotes. Oh right, you can’t because there are none.

        Obama on the other hand referred to his grandmother as a typical white woman. Obama said Trayvon looked like his son. Obama supports race-based treatment. It’s Obama and Jessee Jackson and his supporters who are the biggest racists.

        You should be ashamed for playing the race card, that means you have no real argument against Bundy.

        • gil 42

          What does Obama have to do with this?

    • gil 42

      Who are you to decide that this is an illegal occupation? The courts have consistently upheld this to be federal land obtained legally by the Federal government. Maybe he should have spent these decades trying to get the land back, legally.

  • moafu

    AGREED, BERNIE.
    There are legal ways to thwart the BLM. It’s being done in Wyoming by a few miners ! BLM is wrong on over-reach and until issue is legally resolved, the State Rights Libertarian………MUST obey the rules !

  • Drew Page

    Bundy broke the law by not paying grazing fees to the feds. A classic case of civil disobedience for which he will and should pay a penalty.
    BLM’s tactics of sending a bunch of armed enforcers with attack dogs to take Bundy’s cattle wasn’t exactly the smartest way to handle the situation. There are legal alternatives available to the government short of calling out the SWAT team when someone doesn’t pay their taxes. Liens can be placed against property, bank accounts can be frozen, a judge can issue a bench warrant for a person’s arrest, trials can be held and if found guilty, people can be jailed. Ask Wesley Snipes about that.
    This is a case where a government bureau wanted to flex its muscles and show a scofflaw who’s boss.. Public reaction to such tactics has more to do with people’s perception of government overreach, than sympathy for someone who didn’t pay his taxes, and that includes some people at Fox News.

  • kevin

    Some people have other issues with the Bundy situation. Sure he owes approx a million and sure everyone else pays…why i don’t know it’s only grass on public land, the Problem is.. no one on the left… Harry, Nancy, and the WH had a problem with Occupy Wall Street and other group demonstrations . What was the cost of the destruction and police overtime to baby sit these clowns.. We saw armed federal agents quell the peoples free speech in Nevada, I don’t remember free speech zones in NY. People do not like the double standard, it continue to exist and there is no end in site.

  • sniper2535

    I’ll always side with We the People and make amends later if I must. (it’s not later yet)

  • rbblum

    It could be that an administration pushing for the ‘fundamental transformation’ of a constitutional republic via an excessive display of firepower by a bureaucratic agency is being confronted with freedom of speech.

  • Haaseline

    I agree…stupid is as stupid does…and I would never think I would be this stupid to say what I’m going to say… I am so tired of hearing either side that I just agree with RHINO side because its the taller midget. ( I mean , can I even say that word without hate mail ) If I thought there was a sense of “a way out of this insanity” I would listen. Fact is the debt this countries in, is “death” , but the media and Government know the truth would send this insanity into internal war. Oops to late. Yes the have’s, stand up in front or us and try to act like responsible adults, but the fact is the have not’s are out in the marketplace fighting,bitching and complaining in a boiling point manner. Bundy just happens to be out there rallying his base. Base??? Who’s on First?? With no leadership in the WH and clearly no rescue ship on either side of the aisle….this is what you have = Chaos. It would be easier to grasp if it was the kind Maxwell Smart battled. Bottom line is all these distractions are just the Governments ploy to keep the eye off the iceberg we hit 15 years ago. Fingers , Toes, & Bandaids have kept it afloat…and now for some Bundy… In a world that desperately needs a hero, all I can think about is “Down go Frazier”

  • Charles

    Bernie, I’m no particular fan of Cliven Bundy; and for you to call out Fox News for its coverage of this case seems to me to be at once gutsy and smart on your part.

    But in the broader conservative blogoshpere, I don’t think that Bundy is so enamored as a hero. The movement conservatives I look to aren’t exactly doing any hero-worship for Bundy. And there is, I think you admit, a real question about federal overreach in the Bundy case.

    John Fund had the best and most meaningful column, asking why does the Federal Bureau of Land Management have a SWAT team at all? Why do the Department of Agriculture, the Railroad Retirement Board, the Tennessee Valley Authority, the Office of Personnel Management, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service all have their own SWAT teams? Now THERE is a real story. And Fund did nothing to lionize Cliven Bundy in the process.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/376053/united-states-swat-john-fund

    • http://sellingthesecondamendment.com/ Gregory Smith

      I like Fox News because they lead, they do not follow the media, they do stories the others aren’t doing. They don’t waste time on the same issue for weeks like CNN did with that missing jet. FNC’s coverage of Bundy was perfect, not too much, not too little.

  • Ksp48

    The issue is not Mr. Bundy. The issue is a federal government that would send a 200 man swat team to destroy someone who owes back grazing fees.

    • sjangers

      With respect, Steve, the issue is both Bundy and the federal government.

  • sjangers

    You hit this one square on the head, Bernie. Whatever the principles he stands for, or claims he stands for, Bundy is wrong on the facts of this case. If he’s fighting for “principles”, he’s going about it entirely the wrong way. There are better paths to follow in order to address the things he claims he wants to change.

    Thanks for calling out the Fox News coverage of this story. If you are going to stand for anything, you need to be consistent in belief and action. The news side of Fox News has been drifting into a clear conservative bias for about two years now. They may still be better than all their competition, but they’re no longer consistently fair and balanced.

  • Duke Mantee

    Wow- it turns out Clive Bundy has said some stupid things about race. Therefore, ANYTHING ELSE HE SAYS OR DOES REGARDING ANY SUBJECT UNDER THE SUN IS RENDERED MOOT.

    I mean, that’s the logic, right Bernie? Bundy is imperfect; hence, disqualified. Come on, Bernie!

    I continue to support Bundy and others in similar circumstances because the US Gov’t and the BLM are out of control. Bundy’s pushing back. I like that.

    • Icansee4miles

      Get out the hood, duke!

  • Steve

    Bernie you lost it on this one.

    THEE issue is Federal Land. Who in the H gave the U.S. Gov’t the authority to own land? Why is it that the Western U.S. is mostly owned by the U.S Gov’t?

    This is nothing more than the war on the West that Carter had. Gees us Bernie did you forget that the nuclear waste from shipyards on the East Coast is shipped to the West? WE ARE NOT YOUR DUMPING GROUND. You want the jobs and income and tax base in the East but want to dump your radioactive waste in the West !!!! Keep your waste. If you understand what I just wrote then you understand what it is really all about. Excessive Gov’t control run by Gov’t officials that live their lives totally detached from Western Americans.

    Sorry Bernie but on this one you come across as yet another Eastern that knows so much more than us Westerns that live here.

    • Bernie

      I live in the South. Do I get any points for that?

      • Haaseline

        Steve you actually are todays winner!!! Living in the South is beyond points!!!

  • David Levitsky

    Based on his comments, Mr. Bundy does not make for a good face on the poster for government overreach, but the fact of the matter is that the overreach still occurred. Why do innumerable government entities have SWAT like teams? Yes, he owes us $1 million- but how many other people owe us that amount of money? And why did the government focus on Bundy? Could it be that he is not one of the class currently favored by our government?

    • Ryan Nichols

      I read recently that irs workers across the nation owe back taxes. Federal employees owe back taxes into the millions. But the Fed’s do nothing. In fact the left blocks legislation that would require them to pay or lose their jobs.

  • Brian Fr Langley

    I think your analysis misses the larger picture. 1. How is it that some 80% of Nevada belongs to the Federal Government (and thus is administered by the BLM) creating two de-facto (and sometimes competing) sovereignty’s. Not something that happened to earlier States as they joined the union.Talk about a violation of State rights, 2. In common law there is a form of property right called prescription. The simple explanation of prescription is, if you leave your gate open for a certain period of time (around 20 yrs.) And a person passes through it everyday for the 20 years, they can no longer ever be barred from passing. 3. Open range remains a legal concept to this day in much of Canada and the United States. I’m aware of several jurisdictions that if you don’t want cattle in your garden, then you are the one who has to build a fence.4. The lands in question are public lands, (the U.S. Government is NOT, an owner of private property in the sense an individual is. That makes them stewards, NOT Lords. How is it that these stewards can claim a turtles use, is a higher and better use than a multi-generational cattle ranch, that’s been operating (and providing livelihoods ) for a century or better? 5. In the 18th to 19th century this same thing happened in Ireland. Resident (share cropping) farmers were tossed off their lands in favor of their Lords desire to grow more profitable sheep. While technically and legally within their rights, history has been unkind to the moral bankruptcy shown by these extremely harsh dislocations. The BLM are the peoples servants, NOT the peoples Lords, being technically or legally right, does not absolve them of unethical and immoral behavior.

    • Drew Page

      This is the same administration that cutoff irrigation of the San Joaquin Valley farms in order to save — are you ready for this — the “delta smelt”. A once fertile produce farming area in California was turned back into a desert in order to “save” some kind of minnow. Why the government couldn’t have trapped a number of these minnows and relocated them to some other water source is a question that remains unanswered. Even the pleas of then Governor Schwartsnegger to the White House were for naught. Family farms, farm worker jobs and hundreds more jobs in the agricultural business were lost. And for what?

      • American1969

        So that they can have their “Green Utopia”.

  • Chuck

    Good points, Bernie, but to further strengthen your argument, you could have also mentioned that Bundy has lost all his court challenges too. You might have also made the larger point that this is another example of how both liberals and conservatives view everything through the prism of their ideological biases.

  • Seattle Sam

    As I recall, you were critical of those at NBC, AP and others who acted as virtual cheerleaders for OWS. While I don’t think many of them ever expressed “admiration”, they surely did support the “spirit” of OWS in bringing attention to the 1% “problem”. Do you see this all that much differently?

    • Bernie

      Same thing, Sam. Liberals were cheerleaders for OWS … conservative media are cheerleaders for Bundy.

    • nickshaw

      Oh, there was a lot of “admiration” expressed, Sam.
      Even from the political class!
      Remember, Lizzy Warren even said she was the leader or inspiration or some such bafflegab.

  • Barbara Craig

    Have they all gone mad? Thank Goodness for Bernie Goldberg’s voice. I always said he was one of the smartest guys on TV.

    • ARJ127

      Bernie’s sounding too smart for Fox News. He should consider becoming the conservative counterpoint on PBS. They certainly need one.

  • Brad Kozak

    Bernie, the first mistake any ideologue makes is painting things as black and white. This story is far more complex than you make it out to be. The Bureau of Land Management was created in 1976 to fix a patchwork of laws (administered by dozens of agencies). Sadly, it’s a poorly-written law, that never defined, nor put limits on the power of the BLM. Bundy HAS paid for the land. But the BLM came in and jacked up the rates, driving his neighbors, quite literally, out of business. He stood up and said “NO.”

    Sure, it would be great if Bundy were the second coming of Reagan, or even Jimmy Stewart. But this is the real world. The idea that Bundy expressed an idea that’s racist doesn’t change the fact that the BLM is running roughshod over his rights, not to mention their wretched excess and confiscatory ways.

    You might want to do a bit more research on the topic, before you riff on racism and insist that anyone expressing support for Bundy’s stand against the government must also support Bundy’s politics or endorse his position on race relations.

  • Brad LaFave

    I have a question Mr. Goldberg? What was the cost to public property damage caused by the OWS’ers? If I’m not mistaken, I believe it was in the millions. How many crimes and rapes were committed during the OSW’ers during their protest? Or does none of this matter? The BLM create their own rules and ‘grab’ land to do nothing with it. What has the BLM done with the land Mr. Bundy is grazing on? They have done nothing yet expect Mr. Bundy to pay, pay and pay. I;m sorry that you are for big government, I, for one, am not.