No Winner in the Debate — But Maybe a Loser

I have this funny feeling that just about nobody will remember very much about what they heard during the vice presidential debate, but they’ll remember what they saw.

First, on substance, there was no clear winner (though Vice President Biden’s assertion that the Obama administration wasn’t told about requests for more security in Libya before the attacks that left four Americans dead, strains belief).  So if you liked Biden going in, you probably thought he won.  If you liked Ryan, you figured he came out ahead.  But this was one of those times when style, I think, will trump substance.  So even if there wasn’t a winner, there may have been a loser.

Joe Biden was OK when he was talking – but not when he was listening.  That’s when he came off as condescending.  Paul Ryan was trying to make a point and the split screen TV shot showed Biden laughing – not because anything was funny; it was Biden’s way of mocking Ryan, his way of saying Ryan didn’t know what he was talking about.  At one point last night I tweeted that if Biden laughs one more time I’m going to jump through the TV set and slap him.

There were also the frequent Biden interruptions.  He came off as smug, maybe even as a bully, the older guy beating up on the new kid on the block.

Political junkies may like that kind of stuff – if it’s your guy doing the smirking and bullying – but independents, I suspect, don’t like it.  They see it as rude.  The morning after the debate I heard someone say that even if you don’t like President Obama you better hope he stays healthy because you wouldn’t want somebody like Joe Biden in charge.

In terms of poll numbers, the debate might not mean much.  We’ll see about that.  But in terms of optics – an important element in our political culture and in life in general – Joe Biden didn’t come off very well.

He reminded me of Al Gore during his debate with George Bush.  Remember when W would say something Gore didn’t like – and Gore would roll his eyes and sigh.  He did it over and over again.  I can’t remember a single piece of substance from that debate all these years later – and I suspect I couldn’t remember a single piece of substance the next morning, either.  But I remember Al Gore sighing all these years later.

And I’ll remember Joe Biden laughing, not like a friendly, nice guy but like a condescending, snarky politician.   I bet I’m not alone.

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  • potvin

    Let’s state the obvious, Biden is a clown.

  • SargintRock

    Bernie, ya could share my foxhole anytime cause I know I could trust ya to watch my back when the demorats start swarming the wire! Keep up the OBJECTIVE analysis. It’s so refreshing in this journalistic wasteland of overflowing cess pools of progressive Media Hype!! De Oppresso Liber!

  • Joel Wischkaemper

    No winner last time, and that is the reason I criticized Mr. Ryan: he did not go after the record Mr. Obama left behind.  Romney .is. going after it and this whole thing might get downright delicious.  Romney is using the unemployed women stat and Obama doesn’t dare say anything about it because he doesn’t know what it is.

  • MarioP

    RESPONSE TO CBKAUFMAN AND WHEELS 10/16
    Cbkaufman,

    At least you agree Bush2 wanted to invade Iraq.

    You stated:
    “He certainly lost more from the war than could’ve been gained by any stretch of the imagination.”

    What does disorder and war in Mideast mean to the oil prices? Will the oil price go up or down should there be uncertainty in the region? Was Bush2, his family and his friends, not invested in the oil industry? When the price of oil goes up, either due to a legitimate reason or just because of some speculation of uncertainty, the price per barrel goes up, and the oil companies see an increase in their profits while they do absolutely nothing; they deliver the same old black oil but for an increased price. How about Cheney’s Halliburton connection? Who would get all those contracts should the rebuilding of an oil field anywhere around the world be needed? And Halliburton got those contracts. You still don’t see the benefit to the administration? Bush2 did lose plenty from the war, but he swapped it for cash.

    Did you also forget that Cheney announced his intentions to invade Iraq the day after the 9/11/2001 attacks? The administration obviously was planning the Iraqi invasion even before the terrorist attacks. The administration was just waiting for some trigger event. Unfortunately for Cheney, he jumped the gun and his plans were being questioned, so they needed a new trigger event. Bush2 was going to manipulate any evidence they had against Saddam, and instead of working with the world to negotiate a solution, the administration did very little to avoid the war, which should have been the last resort.

    Hans Blix, and the majority of the world, didn’t believe Saddam had chemical WMDs in the 2000′s. Saddam did have them in the 80′s and possibly in the 90′s, thanks to Reagan, but it appears Saddam either used them up against Iran, or he shipped them out after the war with his neighbor. Regardless what happened to Saddam’s chemical weapons, Bush2 should have made sure Saddam still had them, and Powell should have shown evidence of the stockpiles to the UN and not some computer generated graphics. Hans Blix even asked the administration to show the world where those chemical WMDs were, but Bush2 refused. Why? Because either Bush2 didn’t want to resolve the conflict peacefully, or he just didn’t know whether they were still there. Regardless, Bush2′s intentions were to invade and not to resolve the issue.

    You also stated:”It is clear, had he not fought the war, that it would’ve needed to be fought eventually since Iraq was working toward the goal of nuclear weapons and being a world threat, just like Iran. To refuse to acknowledge that fact discredits the side of the argument against war, just as inflating evidence for war discredits that side of the argument.”Is it really that clear as you say? Who truly knows what would have happened had the US not invaded Iraq. Is it possible had Saddam proceeded with his nuclear program, if he even was working on one, and the entire world would have applied pressure on him, like it’s happening with Iran today, he would eventually buckle? Since the entire world was not united on the US side, Saddam was not going to give in easily, believing the US would not risk entering Iraq on its own and possibly risking consequences from other powerful nations. Having the US enter a sovereign nation all alone should be the FINAL option, so we would not have to take the brunt of the cost and casualties. But Bush2 had a mission, and he manipulated the evidence to get his way. Bush2 did not present solid evidence to the world for his invasion, he didn’t try to avoid the invasion, and he cost us $1T and 4,500 lives. There is plenty of ground for impeachment, yet some don’t believe so. Wheels55And why wasn’t there an impeachment? Because Rice’s book didn’t show enough evidence for an impeachment? Do you even know what Rice’s agenda was when writing her book? Was she going to present the truth if her involvement would be evidenced by the book? Rice was the national security advisor during the Iraqi invasion. Do you think there is a chance her and Bush2′s poor judgment, or even intentional actions, during the situation would have been exposed had she told the truth in her book? Maybe? Yes?

    • Wheels55

      Mario,
      Chill, man. You seem stressed!
      Just remember that Bush is not running for President. Just remember that the Iraq decision is way behind us now. And, no, Obama is not going to be impeached. So, chill.

    • Cbkaufman

      >>Was Bush2, his family and his friends, not invested in the oil industry? 

      Seriously?? He went to war to make a little money in the stock market. That’s silly. If that’s what you think, show your work and produce the money trail. It’s the oldest accusation since before the war even began and has no basis in evidence.

      He clearly lost more to his name and legacy and the contempt that his name awakens in those who blame him for all the world’s suffering, than any money that would come in from oil stock. Anyone can throw around irresponsible accusations.

      • MarioP

        Why did Bush2 give tax breaks to businesses for purchasing +6,000 pound vehicles in his stimulus plan? Why not just give tax breaks to every business across the board? What was the logic there?

        No comment about Halliburton? 

        • Cbkaufman

          I have no idea what you’re asking or what relevance it has to what I said or responded to you.

          What about Halliburton? What relevance does it have to impeaching Bush? If you just want to list everything that you didn’t like about his administration or think that there was some questionable job allocations by Cheney, save it. It’s all been said before and maybe a lot of it is questionable. But this is about bringing Bush to trial for high crimes and misdemeanors. I didn’t comment on anything but that.

          • MarioP

            I see how it is. 

            Why did Bush2 want to enter Iraq as soon as 9/12/2001?

            Why didn’t Bush2 present concrete evidence for the invasion?

            Why didn’t Bush2 guide the UN’s searching efforts?

            Why didn’t Bush2 get the UN to join the invasion? Was Iraq an imminent danger and the world couldn’t wait?

            (What did you find so appealing in Bush2, and how long was it before that appeal dissipated, or did it?) 

  • Jeffreydan

      Wrong.  You’re trying to make a molehills out of mountains. We’re talking about an AQ attack, one that could have been defended better, and 4 American lives that could have been saved if the administration’s refusal to listen to a request. The guy whose actions supposedly averted a depression (HA!) now cost lives through his inaction. 

      And now this cover-up. Days after they knew it had nothing to do with a video, they were still blaming the video. I’d normally ask you to explain why someone would need to lie to hide something that is a non-issue, but it’s moot.
      You’re too partisan to understand where you’re wrong, and it’s fortunate the families of the four Benghazi victims and Agent Terry don’t have to hear explanations from you. You can bet they’re not aching to force President Bush into the conversation.   

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/ZHOWZO7PTWEB522QIDPTZ7LS3A Clark Kent

    Get out your legal pads and sharpen your pencils.  Read this and remember it.

    Romney was a successful governor who worked in a bi-partisan manner to run a state.  His skill is as important as his experience is valuable.

    Romney left his job to lift the Salt Lake City Olympics out of the morass of ineptitude and corruption to run smoothly and help young people realize their potential.

    Romney gave away a huge inheritance and built a big business that saved dozens of companies from going out of business.  Executives and hourly wage earners both received benefit.  Was he absolutely perfect?  No man is.

    Romney gave away 4 million bucks to charities.  People who dig deep and give to the less fortunate through institutions they trust know what this means.  Most do not.

    There’s only one team to vote for.  Romney/Ryan 

  • Count_E_Limerick

    Did Biden’s distracting behavior seem to work?
    Or did it just make Good Ol’ Joe look like a jerk?
    The Veep can act real snarky,
    He can call things malarkey -
    But election results may just wipe off his smirk!

    • Phil Silverman (Majorca)

      Something tells me you are not going to vote for Obama-Biden. Do me a favor, study the actual transcript of that debate…leave the theatrics aside.

  • Bob Hadley

    Paul,

    Here’s my response to yuor response below.

    There you go again! You always point at other bad behavior as a diversionary tactic, in effect justifying your side’s bad behavior.

    I’ve already said elsewhere on this website that Kerry, Clinton, Biden and others shirked their Congressional oversight responsibilities by voting to give Pres. Bush a rubber stamp on invading Iraq.

    They voted that way because the Bush adminitration whipped up so much fear and patriotic ferver that they feared political consequences for resisting Pres. Bush. Karl Rove well understands mob mentality. They should have resisted Bush nonetheless.

    There was NOT a void of American intel on whether Iraq had a nuclear program. Rather, the Amer intel said that the info was unreliable at best. That’s why Pres. Bush had to cite the British gov. (previously I erroneously said British intel) as to Iraq’s nuclear program.

    One difference between you and me is that I can be openly critical of those I generally support. On the other hand, you have this seige mentality that any admission of wrong-doing on your side is weakness.   Do you think you’re in an oppressed minoirty?

    BTW, I haven’t refused to discuss the Libya slaughter. Rather, i was focusing on your Iraq comments. It only confuses the issue when you jump around to different issues.. And I realize that’s your strategy when you know your guy erred, and erred big.

    Again, can you ever address your side’s errors without this “they do it too” or “they do it more” nonsense.

    • Wheels55

      So, Kerry, Clinton, Biden and the other demos are mindless sheep and were afraid of Bush? They were so afraid that they did not want to do what is right? They should all be voted out of office!!

      • Bob Hadley

        Yes, they made a serious mistake by buckling to the political pressure ratcheted up by Pres. GW Bush and company. 

        I assume that you wanted Pres. GW Bush impeached and thrown out of office for what he did.  After all, he and his minions were far more culpable than Congress.

        • MarioP

          I would be shocked if any of these Right-wing clowns on here called for Bush’s impeachment. I would also be shocked if any of these clowns didn’t call for Clinton’s impeachment. Finally, should I be shocked if any of these clowns will address the impeachment topic?

          • Wheels55

            Impeachment is so damaging to the USA. I wasn’t in favor of Clinton’s impeachment as I figured Hillary gave him plenty of trouble. Yet, people throw the idea around like it is as simple as arresting a thug for armed robbery.

          • MarioP

            Starting an unjustified war is not damaging to the US of A? If the act of starting an unjust war has no grounds for an impeachment, I doubt we will ever see a valid call for firing our president. And obviously, the Clinton impeachment was a complete waste of time then, thanks to your Republican politicians. 

          • Cbkaufman

            Good start by immediately branding those you disagree with as clowns. That always lends credit to any mature attempt at discussion. That being said, I liked Bush, or at least I don’t see him as the anti-christ to blame for all the world’s suffering. However, there is room to discuss his inflating evidence and intelligence reports to get us into a war. I think that he wanted to go to war with Iraq and pushed Colin Powell to make a solid case from insufficient evidence. Nonetheless, there was no doubt in anyone’s mind, including Hans Blick, that Iraq was working toward a nuclear weapon and had an active program to achieve that goal. So even if he didn’t have them then, were he allowed to continue as he was with the UN and Blick catering and bowing to his every refusal and deception, he would’ve eventually had a nuclear weapon, just as Iran is about to have.
            I think that whether they (WMDs) actually existed at that time is irrelevant in the bigger picture because either way it was just a matter of time. No one argues with that. 
            The question of whether Bush should be tried for exaggerating a “present” danger, as opposed to one which was actively being sought is a valid legal issue that should not be poo-pooed by ideologues. However, I don’t believe that there is any evidence that what he did was motivated by self-gain. He certainly lost more from the war than could’ve been gained by any stretch of the imagination. 
            It is clear, had he not fought the war, that it would’ve needed to be fought eventually since Iraq was working toward the goal of nuclear weapons and being a world threat, just like Iran. To refuse to acknowledge that fact discredits the side of the argument against war, just as inflating evidence for war discredits that side of the argument. 

          • Bob Hadley

            Cbkaufman,

            Whether Pres. GW Bush is responsible for all the world’s suffering or whether he personally stood to gain from the Iraqi invasion is a  straw man.  Instead of attacking straw men why don’t you attack real issues?

            Pres. GW Bush took advantage of the national trust that was placed in him as president.  He took advantage of the national fear and anxiety about being attacked again. 

            Don’t fool  yourself, there was plenty of doubt that Iraq had a nuclear program.  Just read the FOIA documents.  In fact, one of the Iraq inspectors, formerly on Hans Blick’s team, came on the O’Reilly show (I forget his name) prior to the invasion and said that he thought Iraq had  WMDs of ANY sort.    The no-fly zone, although not problem-free, was generally working. 

            I strongly suspect that Pres. Bush’s motive for invading Iraq had little or nothing to do with any kind of WMD.  I suspect that he was overwhelmed by the neo-cons and their utopian vision of a democratic Middle East (with elected leaders friendly to us).

             Pres. Bush didn’t level with us.  Did he lie?  It depends on “what your definition of ‘is’ is.”

          • Bob Hadley

            Below, I meant that the former inspector and member of Hans Blick’s team said on O’Reilly’s show that he thought Iraq had NO WMD of any sort.

          • MarioP

            cbkaufman and wheels55,

            See my response above. Search for:

            RESPONSE TO CBKAUFMAN AND WHEELS 10/16

        • Wheels55

          GW did nothing to get impeached. Obama on the other hand…

          • MarioP

            Since you think Bush2 has done nothing to be impeached for, I guess you must believe Bush2′s invasion of Iraq was due to his incompetence for not having the facts and his conclusion about the WMDs verified prior to putting American lives at risk. Hence, he did not intentionally deceit the nation and the world.
            Hey, if that is the logic, then I can just manufacture my own conclusion about whatever evidence I have and even leave some evidence out. And why should I then verify my wacky conclusion, as any rational person would do, especially when playing with death. My conclusion gets me to my goal, so why mess with it, right? Seriously, is that how you explain Bush2′s innocence? If I’m wrong, please do present your version why Bush2 did nothing to be impeached for, because the way I see it, he pretty much intentionally lied to the nation by not verifying his conclusion.

          • Wheels55

            My reasoning stems from two things: no impeachment action was taken and Condi Rice’s book, No Higher Honor. In her book, which was written in a great amount of detail, recounts the decision to invade Iraq. The WMD information available at the time seemed reliable.
            Regarding Libya terrorist attack versus some dumb video, does that last statement sound familiar?

          • Bob Hadley

            What has President Obama done that has come close to high crimes and misdemeanors?

            Bush sold on us on a war by skewing intelligence.  he did this at a time that the nation was trauimatized, vlnerable and fearful of attack.  He exploited this national mood.  He heightened national fear and anxiety.  Did he lie?  It
            depends on “what your definition of ‘is’ is.”

            I don’t know if this fits in the rubric of high crimes and misdemeanors, however.

             

          • Wheels55

            Bob,
            I do not see anything that Obama has done that would call for impeachment. I do not see anything that Bush has done to warrant impeachment either. Telling lies is something politicians just do – all of them. If an employee lied like a politician, he would be fired. If a salesman lied like a politician, he would not get repeat business. But it seems OK to lie and cover-up the truth if one is a politician. So, I give Obama a pass on the impeachment deal.

  • Wheels55

    Mario,
    I certainly do not lack care for our troops. But they are soldiers and they sign-up knowing they are in harms way so you and I don’t have to be. If you are going to fight the fight, fight to win. Every military member will agree with that.

    • MarioP

      Am I missing your point? Our troops signed up to serve and to die needlessly?  Is that your point? That certainly sounds like you lack care for out troops. 

      Or was your point that the death of the four Americans in Benghazi are less justified than the 4,500 deaths in Iraq because the deaths in Iraq were to the ones who volunteered for service, and according to you, can be expected to be needlessly sacrificed? I would think anyone who volunteers to work in hostile nations are placing themselves in harms way, completely volunteerely, while our soldiers, although they volunteered to serve our nation, have no choice but to fight an unjust war.

      • Wheels55

        While I was never in favor of the Iraq war, it was approved by congress (demos included). Libya was not approved by congress.
        When our troops die, it is indeed sad. But I bet they would take issue with you calling their deaths needless sacrifice.
        The death of the four Americans in Benghazi was not only not justified, the administration could have prevented it. They failed and people died.

        • MarioP

          “The death of the four Americans in Benghazi was not only not justified, the administration could have prevented it. They failed and people died.”

          How did you come to the above conclusion that the American deaths in Benghazi could have been prevented? How many troops were requested for their protection? Had those troops been deployed there, how do you know the attack would not have taken place? How do you know with troops being deployed that more American lives would now have been lost?  Did you run some simulation with a program you wrote? 

          Obviously, your conclusion above is completely unjustified, but we can conclusively state that had the US not invaded Iraq, the 4,500 lives would have been saved. (Well, unless you run another simulation on your computer where Saddam decides to invade Saudi Arabia and we were called in for help.)

          • Wheels55

            Yes, I ran a simulation program called Common Sense. It is not available to you.
            Our people would have been safer by leaving Libya. Having more troops would have helped a lot too. They requested more protection. So, it seems you think just because more troops would not have helped, it was Ok to let those people die in Libya. 
            Regarding Iraq, your hindsight is amazing and not relevant.

  • jujubeebee

    MarioP is quite gullible and only listening to the Obama/Biden narrative.
    Romney will keep the middle class tax rates low, allowing them their mortgage and charity deductions but he said he would put a cap on deductions and eliminate some deductions that the wealthy take.   The idea is to make the tax system more fair to the middle class but at the same time allow small businesses not to be hit hard as they take individual deductions.   The idea is to get the economy moving again and bring in more tax revenue from more people working.  As far as Romney’s taxes go he has already paid the higher rate when earning the money and is now paying a lower rate on capital gains.   If you raise capital gains no one invests and it does filter down to hurt all those pension plans and it hurts jobs as well.  
    What we need in office is someone who understands how the economy works and not someone who sees everything in terms of rich versus poor.  
    Romney has repeatedly said he is not cutting taxes for the wealthy.  That is the Obama narrative which has been drummed into MarioP’s P-brain.  
    The tax structure is progressive and the rates are already high.  What needs to be done is cut the deductions for the wealthy and Romney will do that.   Obama’s only answer is to choke businesses and keep his buddies happy with stimulus money.   90 Billtion for green energy losers?

    • Bob Hadley

      You’re the gullible one!  How long have you been following Gov. Romney?  It’s only recently that Gov. Romney has said he wont cut taxes for the wealthy.  Before his line was “we’re give breaks to job creators, job creators, job creators.”

      It defies arithmatic to say that marginal rates and capital gains taxes will be slashed without either increasing the deficit or  cutting back on home mortgage deductions, charitable deductions, medical deductions and stae and local tax deductions for the middle class. 

      In an interview with Chris Wallace Rep. Ryan obliquely admitted that they would make the arithmatic work by expanding the economy.  That’s supply-side economics, termed “voodoo economics” by Pres. HW Bush in 1980.   How many time do we have to watch this movie before knowing how things will end?

    • MarioP

      Thank you, Bob Hadley, for addressing juju’s misinformed post. But I do want to address this very overused cliche:

      “As far as Romney’s taxes go he has already paid the higher rate when earning the money and is now paying a lower rate on capital gains.   If you raise capital gains no one invests and it does filter down to hurt all those pension plans and it hurts jobs as well. ”

      So, since an investor already paid for the money he used to make more money, why is he paying any taxes at all on any additional profits? Is that your logic, or is a 15% capital gains tax a fair request from the government?

      If I put $1,000 into a business opportunity and I walk away with $2,000, I should only be paying capital gains on that $1,000 profit, right? And if I take that $2,000, buy into some great business opportunity and I walk way with $1,000,000, I should only be paying capital gains on the $998,000 and any future profits, right? Because I already paid for the initial investment of $1,000 at full rate, right? I now own a license to invest for the reduced rate, correct? 

      Finally, the investors are fine paying capital gains at 15%, but paying 40% would discourage them from investing, right? Well, if they felt that way, then they can just not invest and watch their bank accounts shrink due to inflation. There will always be someone else who will see the opportunity in making 60% profit rather than losing 3% annually in their bank.

  • MarioP

    RESPONSE TO JEFFREY DAN 10/15/2012 #2
    You are welcome for clearing up any doubts about whether the Benghazi situation troubles me. The biggest mistake I see there was the decline of additional protection, which is being investigated. The US has numerous interests in hostile places around the world, and I’m sure each of them has requested numerous times some sort of a demand in the past. We are now able to tie such a denied request to a tragedy, and all hell breaks loose. Am I troubled how this looks and there are four dead Americans? Yeah, I’m troubled, but you seem to be extremely troubled by something that really should be towards the bottom of your ladder of troubles.

    “President Bush again?” The unnecessary killing of 4,500 US lives should be extremely troubling, for the rest of your life. You seem to be placing way more importance on the Benghazi incident than the invasion of Iraq. How troubled are you, Jeffreydan, by the Iraq war? I need to see where you stand on that very troubling event of our past. Because you seem to be way more troubled by Benghazi than Iraq. I can’t imagine the troubling you would be experiencing if the Left has started an unjustified war, killing thousands of Americans.

    Also, I don’t see any troubling from you about the major possibility of causing more American deaths should we stay in Afghanistan past 2014. Are you troubled not knowing how many more lives would be unnecessarily lost in that part of the world? Are you OK not knowing when the pullout will take place? Are you OK with pulling out in 2020? That is way more troubling than Benghazi. What about wasting the tens of billions there every additional year. Is that troubling?

    Or how troubling to you is going into Iran alone? How many thousands of Americans would be lost there, should the US abandon the UN and march in as a lone soldier? Is that troubling for you? I don’t see you very troubled with that scenario.

    You seem to be extremely troubled by Libya, but the issues that should be way more troubling to you seem to be just a little itch on your skin, if that. Get your priorities straight! I understand why you’re so concentrated on this Benghazi attack. It is because that is the worst thing you can pin the Democrats on. Wow, don’t you just wish your party was responsible for such minor issues? Your judgment on troubling issues is very challenged, at best.

    • Cbkaufman

      Bush isn’t running for president now, so bringing his issues up at this point is both intentional attempting to distract attention from the current election, and pointing out bad behavior to justify other bad behavior. Ok, Bush did many bad things. Ok? Finished and over with. Move on in your life. If you want to pursue trying Bush for doing what he did, find the appropriate forum to discuss it. This is about the current election. Your “Pay no attention to that man behind the current” tactics are indicative of a weak argument.

      • MarioP

        “Ok, Bush did many bad things. Ok? Finished and over with.”
        Ok, sure, unjustified invasion of a nation, causing 700 unnecessary deaths by the 2004 elections was not enough to reelect Bush. So why do you think the deaths of four lives should be played as a political tactic during these elections? Seriously. Get your priorities straight, and don’t get consumed by minor issues.

        • Cbkaufman

          In other words, “No, no, no!!! I won’t let go of pointing the finger at  others to distract from the current issue. I need to hold on to my anger at Bush to feel good about myself and feel so much better than others when I have someone to point my finger at.”

          A terror attack on the US killing representatives of the US government a minor issue? Seriously? You’re a piece of work.

          • MarioP

            Again, if the nation had no problem electing a president who caused 700 unnecessary deaths by the time elections came around, you are making a giant deal out of only four deaths. 700 or 4; 1 or 0.0057; 100% or 0.57%. Hmmm… if the greater didn’t matter, the smaller should?

            Also, the reason for those Iraqi deaths was due to a lie generated by twisting evidence, even though the majority of the world did not agree with the conclusion. What lie caused the death of those four in Libya? 

            Your constant bickering about the Benghazi attack just shows how you don’t really care about the actual deaths of Americans, in Libya or Iraq, but instead you care about pointing fingers. And your finger pointing is not even on the intentional causes for those American deaths, in Libya or Iraq, but on anything that helps your agenda. You are therefore politicizing the deaths of the four Americans, something that even the families of those dead wish not to be happening.

    • Jeffreydan

        You make an awful lot of assumptions regarding my take on wars and on President Bush, and all you’ll get right now is that it’s not quite what you think, and it might just surprise you. Now I’ve had enough of liberals’ fixation on the man who is NOT in office!

        I’ve also had enough of liberals downplaying what should be, under ANY president, absolute scandals! F&F is a scandal, Benghazi is as well, and imagine if these happened under a president you hate if you need some perspective.

        Only 4 people died? What’s your point in saying that? Are you going to then tell me that Watergate wasn’t a scandal?

        This is ridiculous! I’ll be very clear on this, Mario: If McCain had become president instead, and F&F and Benghazi happened, they’d be just as scandalous and I’d be just as incensed! 

      • Mario__P

        The only reason Benghazi is considered a “scandal” by the Right, it’s because there is nothing else the Right can pin Obama on. If Benghazi has taken place during McCain’s presidency and this was the only “scandal” he could be connected to, he’ll probably face scrutiny from his opposition as well. But if this has taken place during Bush’s presidency after Iraq, the financial meltdown, Katrina, and all his other scandals, Benghazi would be written about on page seven.

        I understand the Right is desperate to peg Obama on a serious issue, and if this is the best they can do, which is to determine why the increase in protection was not provided and why the administration’s story of the attack has changed, then sir, you should only wish that every president from now on will only face such minor “scandals”. Boy, talk about nothing but peanuts. Give me something big to really get upset about. You only wish Reagan’s and Bush2′s scandals would end at this level.

  • MarioP

    REPLY TO JEFFREYDAN 10/15/2012
    If the Republicans had to pick between giving the Bush-era tax breaks to the wealthy or the middle class, you know perfectly well who they would pick. Obama understands that the wealthy do not need more breaks, since, unbelievably, some don’t even pay income tax, while only the wealthy can take advantage of certain loopholes to bring down their effective tax rate, like Romney’s 14% on $22M income. And Obama understands that giving the tax breaks to wealthy, who do not need them, will unnecessarily add $300B to $400B annually to our deficit.

    If you want to talk about discrimination, then you should start with the discriminatory wages, since the wages come before taxation. Once the wages become fair, the fair taxes will follow. The more unfair the wages are, the more unfair the taxes are. If the wealthy complain about the unfair taxes, they surely can pay the same taxes as the poor, once they give up they wealth. It’s that easy, and everyone will get that equal treatment you seek.

    Also, do you think the wealthy would have become wealthy without the society they live among? Put a bright mind on an isolated island, and see how wealthy he’ll become. See who will prepare his dinner for him. See who will build his house. See how far his millions will get him when alone on a island. Every wealthy person took advantage of the society, and he is continually taking advantage of it. Take that wealthy and brilliant mind out of our society, and his absence will be quickly filled by another. The wealthy have not become wealthy by working so hard, or by having a great idea, all on their own. The society made it all possible for them. 

    Yet I am glad to see you call the wealthy “fortunate”, because that term seems to be used only by the liberals when addressing the wealthy. The Right does not comprehend just how fortunate every wealthy person is. The conservatives keep yapping that it’s the hard work, or a great idea that resulted in one’s fortunes. Hmm… I wonder how fortunate an inventor would have been should a brighter mind built the inventor’s invention a year sooner. Isn’t the inventor fortunate he was the one who came up with the idea before anyone else? How fortunate is one at the top of an established company, one who took over a position that became available? Was he fortunate for not being beat to the job by a more qualified person, because that more qualified person was not aware of the opening? How fortunate is the business owner who identified a demand for a given service in a certain part of the country? Was he fortunate that no one else before him noticed the demand vacuum? How fortunate was the business owner who did not develop a medical condition or got in an accident which would have prevented him to continue his chase for wealth? Was he fortunate he didn’t live out his life in a comma? Or how fortunate are the ones who didn’t move a single muscle or twitched a single brain cell, and they became wealthy because they were born into it? So, I am glad to see you, a conservative, are aware that the wealthy had their stars align properly to make them rich, and it wasn’t just their hard work to their hard drive to get their riches all by themselves. Luck and our society play a major role, and the wealthy need to realize that. They owe it to the rest of the society they partake in, and they should be glad they are at the top, and not someone else taking their place. 

  • GailWehling

    As far as I’m concerned Paul Ryan won by a mile.  I will quote what I heard from a Psychiatrist on TV re: Joe Biden “first  he would check his alcohol level and then do Dementia Tests on him.”  To think that man could become President if something happened to Obama, gives one a reason to shudder.

  • Rebecca S Johnston

    Read       Proverbs  29:9.  God talks about Biden.  “If a wise
    man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs and there is no
    quiet.  I guess he has been a clown all of his life.  And the dems say that’s just
    Joe

  • LT Braver

    Three simple words describe the essence of BIDEN’S 40 year political career “Lying Crap Weasel”

    • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

      Give us ONE example of Biden “lies”. He got Ryan on facts and substance. Ryan had cliche talking points and zero hard details. But as usual, personality wins over substance and longtime credibility. Stick with Fox.

      • Paul Courtney

        Phil:  I’ll give you two.  He lied about Catholic Institutions not subject to Obamacare Regs on providing birth control coverage, naming 3 that ARE subject to it.  (Maybe he was just thinking he was in 2009, when he promised Catholics Obamacare would not do this to get their support).  Two, he lied on Libya.  This is a two-fer, because he lied about what “intel” was telling them at first, and he lied about what “we” knew, if he meant admin.  If he meant only “Pres. and me”, maybe not a lie, but it’s willful ignorance at the top.  And that gets your support.
              Anyone seen a non-partisan “fact-checker” going after Biden on these, like they tried to do with Mitt?  If Mitt can lose a debate he won because of “lies”, what’s that do to ole Joe?

  • sendtheclunkerbacktochicago

    How far does Bernie have his head up Bill O’Reilly’s …..?  If you don’t hear or see Bernie and Bill O’Reilly talking about the FACTS that are presented in the Youtube I posted we can only come to one conclusion, Bernie and Bill Bob are cowards and should be contenders for Glen Beck’s newest best seller, Cowards.  With a biography like the one described in that Youtube, backed up by verifiable FACTS, this Fraud in Chief should have never been allowed on a visitor’s list for the White House yet today he sits next to the nuclear football.  It is because of the cowards like Bernie and Billy Bob  who refuse to use these facts to expose this Fraud in Chief that he sits next to the nuclear football.    

    Readers, please forgive me for telling you and Jeffreydan the truth and being bad mouthed for doing so.  That should tell you something about the character of the person who is fearful of the truth.  I wonder if Jeffreydan believes that this Fraud in Chief  has been flaunting a forged birth certificate, a forged selective service registration and a fraudulent SS#.  If he believes this to be true he should be asking Bernie and Billy Bob to get this info in the news cycle at Fox.  

    I am actually a nice guy Jeffreydan, but happen to be very pissed off at the folks who are in positions to protect us from this sordid Obama history.  Their silent pens and mouths are enabling this administration to bitch slap all Americans with their radicalism.   You and others at this little Bernie club should be as angry as I am over this silence.   

    • Jeffreydan

        No need to respond with such a wordy post, Clunk; most everyone is already aware you think your attitude is justified.

        Keep stomping your little feet and crying “cowards!” by all means, even though it hasn’t gotten you anywhere. Your obnoxiousness would still be better shoved than shared.    

      • sendtheclunkerbacktochicago

        Did I say something that was untrue??  That should be the only concern, not spelling, nor wordy, but the TRUTH.  

  • wally

    You aren’t.

  • http://twitter.com/Stopthejunk Patty Rains

    Again…in my world, substance is way ahead of style. Style is superfluous and fickle. Biden’s  emotional content  tickles the Dems to where they almost can’t hear the lies, nor do they care.  Biden took me by surprise with his insipid body language. Never saw anyone react like he did.  Ryan is a fresh breath of spring. Doesn’t depend on tales and embellishments to carry himself.  Those stories are mostly time-wasters.  I much preferred Ryan’s ‘style’ and demeanor and truthful content than what Biden spit out. Especially the lies we later found just rolled off his tongue as if he really believed in them.  He’s a pathetic guy and hope the O is down and out.

  • TarHeel456

    Ghost Writer, I stopped reading at “…income inequality…”  That’s all I need to know about your opinion.  Why not move yourself to a place where everyone is equally oppressed by the government that takes all that you earn and divides it “equally” amongst the masses?  Sounds like you might be happy there.

  • MarioP

    Don’t worry. If Obama will get reelected, he will want to extend, I mean make the middle class tax breaks permanent. It’s the Republicans that will fight him on it.

    • Jeffreydan

        
      “Don’t worry. If Obama will get reelected, he will want to extend, I mean make the middle class tax breaks permanent. It’s the Republicans that will fight him on it.”  It is actually BO who is putting up an unreasonable fight. You make it appear as if Republicans are against the middle class, and that’s a bit dishonest on your part.   I would’ve thought you’d be singing a different tune. BO’s plan to leave out the wealthy is discriminatory, and liberals preach about how discrimination is wrong. What the Reps want happens to ensure everyone gets equal treatment. Just because someone is successful or fortunate doesn’t mean they don’t lose their rights.     There’s also BO’s belief that it would be wrong to let everyone’s taxes go up in a bad economy, as he said a couple of years back. Forget about that?

      • MarioP

        Jeffreydan, see my response above. Search for

        REPLY TO JEFFREYDAN 10/15/2012

  • http://hemingwayreport.blogspot.com/ MerchantofVenom

    The Biden debate skills:

    Grinning, twitching, laughing, smirking, interrupting, blinking, sighing, stammering.  Guess Barry didn’t need to worry about Joe being “too polite”.

    I was waiting for Ryan to say something like…Joe, they say you make a lot of gaffes. I guess they’re right. I came here tonight for a serious debate but evidently you think we’re on SNL.

    • MarioP

      How about complaining about any lies being told by Biden. No complaints there? Then let him be twitchy and show off his pearlies.

      • Paul Courtney

        Mario: See above.  Directly, did Biden tell truth about Religious Institutions subject to Obamacare requirements on birth control coverage?

  • beniyyar

    I can only congratulate you on your professional commitment  as a journalist to actually sit through something that included Joe Biden!

  • genann59

    Right, that unfortunate decision for him to act that way, for those watching the debate, likely turned many people off. It was not only rude, it was offensive, and I think the ad out the next day took full advantage of his facial expressions, his laughter, and, compared to Ryan’s patience and politeness, showed which man is better, charactorwise, if nothing else. Sort of the old rooster/young rooster routine, as my dearly departed mother would have said.

  • http://twitter.com/kevinkmac Kevin McDonald

    I broke both of my wrists trying to slap him. I knew he would use gestures to the hilt, but to be like the drunk at the bar making a point and going for a laugh?

  • Ghost Writer

    Wow Mr. Goldberg.
    Written like a true 1%. When Republicans speak or write you
    can count on it to be filled with the same platitudes, anecdotes, cooked stats
    and a tenuous connection with reality. It’s a laundry list of conservative
    fantasy, couched in populist rhetoric and designed to make the 1% richer while
    destroying the middle class. That’s exactly what you, and Fox News do. You
    know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common, they
    don’t alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their
    views. The
    argument is made that “The rich create jobs.” After all, somebody has to build
    the yachts. What is missing is the more general principle: Wealth and income
    inequality destroy job creation. This is because beyond the wealthy soon reach
    a limit on how much they can consume. They spend their money buying financial
    securities – mainly bonds, which end up indebting the economy. And the debt
    overhead is what is pushing today’s economy into deepening depression. The middle class is the key. If we have a strong middle class we will have a strong economy. Fox
    News journalists are not “newshounds.” They are nothing more than
    salesclerks, hocking the products their employer wants to sell. The pretty
    faces that now function as Fox news anchors are no different than the pretty
    models used to sell other products. Fox News is comprised of nothing more than
    a number of retail outlets which sell stories slanted to please their target
    audiences. As such, they exist merely to sell snake oil

     

    • Paul Courtney

      Sounds like you were scared by Fox News when you were a small child.  Really, your rant is quite disconnected from the column.  Unhinged Biden behavior destroys middle class?  Please stop offending ghosts by attributing this drivel to their writing.

    • Joe in Round Rock

      Ghost, first you make no sense at all.  None.  This has absolutely no connection the Bernie’s article and is completely random.
      Second, I find it hard to believe that anyone capable of rational thought actually believes that 1% drivel.  It’s a talking point created by the so called “1%” to appeal to the mindless.
      Third, stop with the “build the middle class to build a strong economy”.  How. HOW?  Your kind never provide a solution, because you have none.

      • MarioP

        How, how?! How do you build the middle class? How does the middle class build a stronger economy? You never actually thought of the answers? Really?

        You build a stronger middle class with policies that benefit the middle class. You lower taxes for the middle class. You provide more programs for the middle  class, such as helping them refinance their homes to a more manageable payment. Give them affordable healthcare and education. And what do you think will the middle class do with the savings they now have in their wallets? They’ll spend it on business, here in the US, and not on foreign investments, foreign properties, lavish foreign goods (cars, boats, etc.). The better off the middle class is, the better off the upper class is. That’s how!

        Nearly every dollar the middle class spends, will be eventually received by the upper class. But not every dollar the upper class spends will be seen by the middle class. The stagnated money in the wealthy’s bank accounts don’t trickle down. The money sent abroad doesn’t trickle down to the middle class. But the middle class, which lives paycheck to paycheck, sends all their money to the upper class. Do you now understand HOW?! Good!

      • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

        well, let’s see..first of all get the GOP to quit returning stimulus $$$$ and declining on infrastructure contracts and outsourcing viable American jobs. I know that’s not the Fox credo……….

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/XCQGC2VDAWROELL22F7MQJKGF4 Jack Cox

      While trying to sound intelligent, You seem to forget about the truths of what the middle class will lose after the election, no matter who wins, when all the tax abatements go away and the cost people will incur will be between $2500.00 & $3500.00.  That is as a result of the Obamas administrations gift of additional taxation to all Americans!  Wake up to what’s real, and quit listening to the deception given by the Liberal left.

    • http://hemingwayreport.blogspot.com/ MerchantofVenom

      Ahhh…spoken like a true MSNBC, OWS,  junkie.

      • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

        Checks and Balances, man: MSNBC / Fox; factor in Limbaugh, Beck, InGraham, Coulter, Wayne La Pierre, Drudge, hannity, Levin, Alex Jones, Jerome Corsi………………………

        • Cbkaufman

          Deceptive tactics to make a point is indicative of a weak point. You put a single network containing many individuals on one side, and many individuals on the other side. On the same side as MSNBC put CBS, NBC, ABC,… each contain a multitude of  liberal broadcasters. 

    • moronpolitics3

      Oh WOW that is dumb.   Where did you take economics?    Harvard?   The wealthy can only consume so much and then they go out and buy bonds and stuff which “creates indebtedness”.    Riiiiight.    A strong middle class creates a strong economy.   See…first you have a bunch of guys standing around making a really good wage and then…………….POOF, Henry Ford appears.     

      Don’t worry.   Having looked at the “Economics” text book I was supposed to teach those poor dumb b*****ds in my High School there will continue to be Democrat voters like you for decades to come.  I quote   “When formulating a business plan you will want to see if many people are unemployed in your area.   If there are you will want to limit the use of machinery and computers so as to employ more of them.”    Yeah.   OK.   Now if I SELL bonds to start my business that should ELIMINATE endebtedness, right??  I mean it’s the opposite of BUYING them, right???

      • MarioP

        We already have plenty of Fords around. But the Fords will not hire more workers or give raises until there is increaed demand for their products or services. So how do you increase that demand?

        • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

          GM and Chrysler selling & hiring like crazy. Anticipating about 14 million cars sold worldwide in 2014.

          • Cbkaufman

            So why hasn’t GM payed its stimulus back yet?

          • Bruskie

            GM easily makes a profit from the government bail-out.  The new “new deal”

    • TexMexSoup

      Ah yes ghost writer, the same 1% group of millionaires that Obama (worth 6 million) Pelosi (worth 35 million), Reid (worth 5 million) Kerry (worth 194 million) are part of? Foolish person you are indeed

      • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

        Guess that means the 7% who own 93% of the Country do not exist, just because Democrats get rich, too. Point: Romney, whatever he’s worth, made his fortune by raiding struggling, not failing companies; sending the work overseas; sending the workers to the unemployment line. 

        • Cbkaufman

          If those stats that you mention have any basis in reality, it is still a greater distribution than any of the great cultures throughout history. The distance between wealthy and poor has never been closer than it is in the US today. Today’s poor, in the US, are more wealthy than at any culture’s poor, throughout history. Almost all American poor have cellphones, tvs, air condition, (really cool tennis shoes)… The exceptions are a small percentage. Today’s neo-winers are the same jealous rich haters that have always existed.

          • MarioP

            “The distance between wealthy and poor has never been closer than it is in the US today.”

            Did you even search for what you wrote? Google “gap between rich and poor” and all you’ll get is “widens”,  “increases”, etc.
            “Almost all American poor have cellphones, tvs, air condition, (really cool tennis shoes)… ”

            Yeah, and that’s a great measure of wealth, because the poor a century ago didn’t have those items, only the wealthy had them, right?

        • TexMexSoup

          Oh okay I get it now, rich democrats = good millionaires.  Rich republicans = bad millionaires.  This of course is the simplified terms of your point.  Your hypocrisy is ‘priceless’ no pun intended.  

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/PPL2AXPXJMWPEJWFN34MPC5RNY terry

    NO COMPARISON,   THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS, TO SAVE OUR GREAT REPUBLIC.

    IF BIDEN WANTS TO BE A BUFFON LET HIM GO TO THE CORNER BAR.

    BIDEN SHOT HIMSELF IN THE FOOT,  I BET YOU SERIOUS MINDED DEMOCRATS

    WERE AMAZED AT HIS STUPID BEHAVIOR, HE DIDNT HELP THEM ONE BIT

    • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

      Nope. Sorry. “Buffoon” “bar”…yeah. Biden won on subtstance: the stimulus, healthcare, the economy, on and on….unless politeness is themain priority to be “one heartbeat  away”. Ryan could not explain the Medicare voucher program, Embassy protection, his own “green pork”….theatrics seem very important to you.

      • MarioP

        You forgot to mention foreign affairs. Ryan did not come across very well when he could not commit to the 2014 Afghan departure year. Ryan cared more about not letting Taliban know when we would pull out, rather than forcing the Afghans to get their act together and be responsible for their military operations. Ryan would have preferred to sacrifice more US troops as the Afghans were pretending they could not get their act together militarily. I  mean why would the Kabul government want to take their military training seriously? They get the world’s best military protecting them, for free. Duh, Romney and Ryan, use your heads.

        I also loved how Ryan didn’t want to get the UN involved in dealing with Iran, and at the same time somehow get the world band with the US to take care of the nuclear threat. I foresee another lone US invasion into Iran with Romney in charge.

        Finally, I was a bit worried how Ryan would turn the Benghazi attacks into his favor, but Biden pretty much explained everything that happened and showed us how unpatriotic Romney’s premature verbal attack on the president was. Instead of coming together as a united nation during such an attack, Romney went completely partisan. Smart move. Even Ryan looked like he understood Biden’s explanation of the events, which made a complete sense to him for the first time. Biden completely dominated the foreign affairs segment.

        • Ahalbert

          Only a Democrat would say that a comment — which was accurate — is more important than the administration’s negligence in the loss of four American lives. And if you’re going to use private security guards instead of marines, how about letting them have bullets?

          Wherever troops are at risk, you don’t tell your enemy your exit plan. Those of us who are veterans know that’s dangerous. You also don’t make stupid rules of engagement. Timetables and conditions can be implemented without announcing them to the world for political reasons.

          This administration has never shown it knows how to make an advantageous deal, whether it be GM, bank bailouts, shovel ready jobs, Afghanistan, China, Russia, you name it. That’s what dilettantes do.

          Progressives spin and deflect everything. They’re never responsible. I think the public is catching on.

          • MarioP

            “Only a Democrat would say that a comment — which was accurate — is more important than the administration’s negligence in the loss of four American lives.”
            Romney’s comment was accurate? Really? Romney comment, which was addressing the Cairo embassy’s statement earlier that day, stated that the US should not apologize to the attackers. First, the US did not APOLOGIZE for ANYTHING. The Cairo statement condemned the nutty religious film. (I condemn your post, so am I apologizing for it? Of course not.) And second, the Cairo statement was not addressing any attacks, since the statement was released hours before any attacks took place, yet Romney thought they were. So how accurate was Romney’s statement? This blunder by Romney was discussed several times on this board, and I can’t believe it’s still being debated.

            Regarding telling the enemy about one’s exit plan, all they know is the year. That gave away so much. And timetables on this issue need to be discussed, since voters need to make up their minds on who to vote in. If Romney does not announce his departure time, should I be OK with his secret plan of not withdrawing until 2020, should that be his plan? And how do you force the Afghanis to take their military responsibility seriously if you don’t give them a deadline? Ho long do you want to wait till they get their act together? And if the administration does not communicate with the public about their plan for withdrawal, you would be yelling at them for being secretive and making it appear as if we were going to be there for another decade. You would never be happy with whatever is done.

        • Paul Courtney

          Where to begin….  “Biden pretty much explained everything”, so saying “this is what intelligence told us” explains everything?  Is that what you said about Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, when they said that about WMD in Iraq? Big difference, of course, is, Bush WAS actually told that by Intel folks, but Biden’s statement was false.  And Romney’s “unpatriotic” comment was echoed, hrs later, by…Obama statement!  Well, I’m not going to stand by while you call our Pres. unpatriotic! 

          • MarioP

            Paul, pay attention next time. Biden said the intelligence first told Obama there were protests in Benghazi, but later the intelligence changed their story. That is very black and white.

            In Iraq, the intelligence told Bush Iraq was receiving aluminum tubes, and other evidence that could appear WMDs were in Iraq, which Bush took and drew his own WMDs conclusions, probably purposefully spinning it to his advantage, even though Iraq explained the evidence as not what Bush saw. (Remember, Cheney wanted to go into Iraq the day after 9/11/2001 attacks.) UN’s findings also didn’t support Bush’s conclusions. The intelligence never told Bush that Saddam had WMDs in the 2000′s. Bush’s intelligence was not black and white, but he made it that way. That’s the difference.

            Romney’s unpatriotic comment was echoed by the media to highlight the error. Obama’s statement the following day explained the situation and what would be done with the attackers. 

            Finally, since you didn’t comment on my Afghanistan and Iran comments, should I conclude you agree with them?

          • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

            Isn’t “Paul” close enough to “Phil”? My Mother wanted to call me Paul. Anyway, sorry 4 the mix-up. I dig your writing.
            (And yes, W. is a war monger/guilty of crimes against humanity; he said to the Slam Dunkers, “you gotta give me more than this [intel']” – but still he forged ahead - Vincent Bugliosi wrote a book on it, as we all know).

          • Bob Hadley

            Thanks Phil!  No problem.  As far as I’m concerned, you’re welcome to chime in anytime.  I’m assuming your post below was directed to me.  :) 

            Yes, I wrote Mr. Bugliosi’s book on trying Pres. GW Bush for murder.   It was said to see such a great figure go so far out on an unsupportable limb. 

            I suspect that GW Bush regrets invading Iraq and feels used by the neocons.  I could be wrong, of course.  As he himself said, however, he was the decider.

          • Bob Hadley

            Ooops!  This post just cleans up a couple of typos in the post immediately below.

            Thanks Phil! No problem. As far as I’m concerned, you’re welcome to chime in anytime. I’m assuming your post below was directed to me. :)

            Yes, I read Mr. Bugliosi’s book on trying Pres. GW Bush for murder. It was sad to see such a great figure go so far out on an unsupportable limb.

            I suspect that GW Bush regrets invading Iraq and feels used by the neocons. I could be wrong, of course. As he himself said, however, he was the decider.

          • Bob Hadley

            Paul,

            You need to sort out the term WMDs.  On the one hand you have biological and chemical weapons.  On the other hand, you have a nuclear bomb program with delivery systems. 

            Yes, there was a lot of intelligence that Iraq had chemical and biological weapons.  It’s noteworthy, however, that the dissenting view in the intelligence community (i.e. that there was inadequate evidence that Iraq had chemical or biological weapons) was suppressed by the GW Bush administration. 

            But the Bush administration went beyond talking about biological and chemical agentss.  They scared people by talking about aluminum tubes, yellow cake, swift long-range delivery systems and the nightmarish mushroom cloud.  The evidence on this was questionable at best. 

            The Bush administration, instead of conveying accurately all the intelligence  (as in “we report, you decide”), did a sell-job on us.  Used car salesmen are expected to act this way.  But the President of the United States, especially on something as serious as going to war??????  If a Democratic president had done anything remotely similar, what would you say?

          • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

            Why ask me if a Dem. President did the same…? >>>>yes, LBJ was a war monger and committed crimes against humanity in the 1960s.

          • Bob Hadley

            Phil Silverman,

            I wasn’t addressing my remarks to you, but since you answered, from your logic (immediately below) you must thing Pres. GW Bush was a war monger and committed crimes against humanity between ’03 and ’08.

            Yes, Pres. Juhnson’s actions with respect to our involvement in the Vietnam war are a serious black mark on his record.  

          • MarioP

            Obviously Phil Silverman thinks Bush2 was a war monger, but he will never admit it, especially to a liberal.

          • Paul Courtney

            Bob:  Thanks for the setup. Assuming, for the sake of argument, Bush “suppressed” intelligence (my view, this was an invention of J Kerry and Hillary when they realized war unpopular, and Nancy Pelosi’s “(Intel folks) lie to us all the time” wasn’t going well in focus groups, but let’s have it your way), that he ignored counter info, that nuke info questionable at best-you are conceding (as any reasonable person would) that Bush Admin HAD INTEL EVIDENCE SUPPORTING ITS STORY!  And by noting the “decider” line, we see that Bush did NOT throw Intel folks under the bus.  
            Fast forward to Ole Joe, his version is false, and D’s can’t throw others under bus fast enough.  There was no such intel info, and before your mates click on “paste” to insert their standard “you get your info from FoxNews” rant, all Joe had to do was watch AC360 to see what happened in Benghazi was not Cairo.  CNN coverage in days following trumped FNC, also had Stephens asking for more security, which Joe and Pres. didn’t know (that I believe), but I digress.  Point is, Biden has not shown this Intel, he merely claimed it.  There’s no “counter Intel” to ignore, ALL info was planned attack, NO info of protest.  If Dem pres lied us into war, I’d want him impeached, but if he relied on info and showed us the info, I might cut him some slack.  Mario, I won’t bother, you told us who you are when you said you believed Ryan believed Joe.  Your trouble is, I do pay attention.  Even the press friendly to Obama haven’t produced any such “Intel” in over a month, yet you swallow it whole.

          • MarioP

            Paul,

            Bush2 had enough intel which could have been spun into multiple stories, yet he chose the version that neither Iraq nor UN backed. And instead of verifying his version, Bush2 decided to take the huge step forward and put American lives on the line, and burn through $1T. He lacked the proper judgment, and therefore he lacked the ability to successfully lead the nation, because once his unverified claim was proven false, his respect and leadership was deemed unworthy at home and around the world.

            And if the initial belief about the Benghazi attack did not involve protesters, then why did early news reports, like the one below, report that “it is believed the protest was held over US-produced film…” Obviously there was misinformation being circulated, and it took days for the truth to come out, and days more to verify the new version.

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19562692 

          • Bob Hadley

            “If Dem pres lied us into war, I’d want him impeached, but if he relied on info and showed us the info, I might cut him some slack. ”

            Paul,

            First, I did not address the slaughter in Libya, so you must be confusing me for someone else.   In no way have i attempted to justify or downplay that episode.  Rather, i addressed a comment you made to Mario about WMDs and the Iraq invasion.

            Second, are you able to address a criticism of your side without this “they do it too” or “they did it worse” nonsense?  And don’t say “you do it too” because I have criticized Democrats elsewhere on this website.  :)

            The fact is that pres. GW Bush did not show us all the intelligence on chemical and biological agents in Iraq.  Read the FOIA documents.  The Bush administration showed us and Congress intelligence from the majority intelligence report.  They did not show us the minority report.  

            And they presented their case with absolute certainty.   

            More serious, however, was Pres. GW Bush’s harping on aluminum tubes, yellow cake, speedy long-range delivery systems and the horrific imagery of a mushroom cloud.  Any propagandist will tell you that stark imagery is generally much more powerful than logic.

            There was scant intel on Iraq having a nuke program.  Again, it was questionable at best.  The Bush administration was short on intelligence and long on propaganda. 

            Remember that infamous 16 word statement in Pres. GW Bush’s State of the Union address?  He referenced British intelligence because American intelligence told him the story was not reliable.  He parsed words.

          • Paul Courtney

            Just can’t resist this!  Below, Bob Hadley refuses to address Libya slaughter while chiding Bush for relying on British Intel in the “absence” of our own intel (you mean, besides Joe Wilson’s initial debriefing).  Bob, you really think John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, all running for Pres. in ’04, listened to a report on Brit Intel, and voted for Iraq resolution without ever asking, “what do our folks have on this?” Fascinating that you think them less astute than I.  Meanwhile, in contrast, Mario thinks it ok if Obama Admin gets its misinformation from BBC.  Mario, please send that link to Biden campaign right away, ’cause they have no idea where these initial reports came from. 

          • Bob Hadley

            Paul,

            There you go again!  You always point at other bad behavior as a diversionary tactic, in effect justifying your side’s bad behavior. 

            I’vee already said elsewhere on this website that Kerry, Clinton, Biden and others shirked their Congressional oversight responsibilities by voting to give Pres. Bush a rubber stamp on invading Iraq. 

            They voted that way because the Bush adminitration whipped up so much fear and patriotic ferver that they feared political consequences for resisting Pres. Bush.  Karl Rove well understands mob mentality.  They should have resisted Bush nonetheless.

            There was NOT a void of American intel on whether Iraq had a nuclear program.   Rather, the Amer intel said that the info was unreliable at best.  That’s why Pres. Bush had to cite the British gov. (previously I erroneously said British intel) as to Iraq’s nuclear program.

            One difference between you and me is that I can be openly critical of those I generally support.  On the other hand, you have this seige mentality that any admission of wrong-doing on your side is weakness.

            BTW, I haven’t refused to discuss the Libya slaughter.  Rather, i was focusing on your Iraq comments.  It only confuses the issue when you jump around to different issues..    And I realize that’s your strategy when you know your guy erred, and erred big. 

            Again, can you ever address your side’s errors without this “they do it too” or “they do it more” nonsense. 

  • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

    Bernie, since your SLOBBERING, unintentionally racial tome, you have slipped…have joined the GOP/FOX vilification team..style always over substance. Ryan’s a better
    “heartbeat away” because he was more polite?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dave-Koffer/1020263329 Dave Koffer

    I believe that Paul Ryan was substantative, thoughtful, factual, serious, respectful and likable while biden was loud, rude, disrepectful, unhinged and obnoxious….and, biden LIED numerous times throughout the debate as well.  biden’s performance last night did NOT, NOT help obama in any way, PERIOD!!

    • Phil Silverman (Majorca)

      You have GOT to tell me where Biden “lied”. Please.

      • NS Sherlock
        • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

          breitbart? >>>> ok, I’ll go to those sites. (Breitbart? the hoaxter? along with O’Keefe, on his way to the slammer?). I have heard what sounds like “lies” by Romney and Ryan…re. Medicare, re. Obama’s dfesire to take away the work requirement on Welfare, about “stealing” 716 billion $$$$ from Medicare…………….

        • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

          didn’t get to all of those “lies”: do you know the diff. between a gaffe and a LIE? Biden said “millionaires” when she should have said 250k, etc. Ok. You call it a lie…  “Death panels”…where’s the lie? He simply said that Palin loved that expression…and it has no bearing upon reality whatsoever. He further said that “panel” of 15 are Professionals who make no FINAL decisions on anything…just oversight on exorbitancy. This is what you are talking about? :)

          • moronpolitics3

            right.   exorbitancy.   That’s when somebody who is OLD wants a pacemaker.   After all,  Obama  told a lady that her Mom, who was SITTING RIGHT THERE and had been surviving on a pacemaker she got three years before SHOULD HAVE HAD IT DENIED.   He said we couldn’t go by the fact the SHE survived when statistically people don’t usually live that long.   When the CANDIDATE, STILL UNELECTED says that a woman should have been allowed to die RIGHT TO HER FACE… you think a bunch of appointed people charged with SAVING MONEY… oh I mean eliminating exorbitancy.  

        • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

          sorry…no seegah (townhall report of “lies”). Actually…pathetic. (Try to be objective on this).

          • NS Sherlock

            Truth hurts, huh? Typical suckass lib.

          • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

            “truth hurts”? “huh”? “typical…”? you’d never say that to my face, I can absolutely gurantee that. >>Those two cites ARE pathetic. There’s only evidence of a gaffe and an exaggeration. By the way, kudos to your adaption of William F. Buckley’s elevated style.

  • Maxmunzer

    When someone is loud, rude, & laughing like Biden it means he cannot deal with the facts & prefers lies to the truth.  Romney/Ryan  honest, honorable, patriotic, true Americans.   

    • Phil Silverman (Majorca)

      STYLE over SUBSTANCE, yeah, yeah, yeah.  Ryan was awful on healthcare and taxes and the “47% of us who never left home. Looked like he was running for Assemblyman. Because the “old guy” interrupted …he LOST the freaking things? come on.

      • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

        >>>>>if you SAY “substance” should win..then Biden won…why the deep sea search for a guppie?

      • moronpolitics3

        JESUS.   Are you sure it’s Phil Silverman, not Phil Silvers??   How’s that for old?     Sometimes the best lies are when you “tell the truth”.   Like saying they didn’t take 700 Billion from Medicare to pay for Obamacare.   Like yelling  “SENIORS!   LISTEN TO OLD JOE!  HAVE YOUR BENEFITS GONE DOWN???????
        Cute, Old Joe.   It doesn’t happen until 2013.   That was a very important part of the bill.    THE MEDICARE PAYMENTS DON’T CHANGE UNTIL JANUARY OF 2013.    AFTER THE ELECTION.   Then again on 1/1/2014 when they will be THE SAME AS MEDICAID.     Go find a doctor that takes medicaid and I will show you the day clinic at your local country hospital……    Ever been there????????????????

    • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

      “heartbeat” criteria…yeah.

  • Deaconbluze73

    Bernie, I thought I was the only one who felt like reaching through the TV screen and slapping that smug, patronizing, rude smile off Biden’s face. Nice to know I’m not alone. Then even more so when he stated ‘they’ didn’t know about the security risks and the call/plea for beefed up security in Libya. Quite frankly as a VP, I’d be ashamed to admit that were it true. So, he either lied on a colossal level or he comes off the dunderhead he’s proven himself to be yet again. Maybe we should ‘put him in chains.’

    • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

      what’s this “smile” obsession? I thought years and years of exp. and thorough knowledge counted for more?

      • moronpolitics3

        Thorough knowledge of what?   Biden has been a national joke for decades.   Did you just start watching politics?  You are what?  19?  17?   It’s not just telling a guy in a wheel chair since high school to stand up.  How about saying he stays in touch with the common folk by visiting a diner that’s been closed for 25 years.  I watched him use up the fifteen minutes alloted for him to question a justice candidate without finishing the question, then get saved by the chairman, who got him to get a question out with less than a minute left.   With no objections the candidate was allowed  extra time.  Biden is NOT a “likeable dunderhead” as he likes to portray himself and his nasty streak was on display AS WELL AS the multiple untrue statements.   Shouting SENIORS HAVE ANY OF YOUR BENEFITS BEEN CUT??  When he knows that SEVERE cuts are coming in 2013 as soon as they are reelected is WORSE than a lie.   YOU pretending to be anything but a paid hack is probably a lie as well although with universal consent the rest of us may allow you to pose as only an idiot, OK, Joe?

  • Sbgranny

    Biden is a good liar with a very bad attitude.

    • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

      point out ONE lie – and I don’t mean saying “millionaire” when he probably meant 250,000. Look for real “lies”, not gaffes, or exaggerations.

      • Jeffreydan

          “ONE lie”? Like when he said they got no request for more security in Libya?

          BTW, would you honestly have no problem with it if Rep. Ryan was the one being rude & obnoxious and Biden was the one displaying more civility and focus?  

      • Eandmsnow

        He said he voted against the AFghan and Iraq wars. He voted FOR both.

      • TarHeel456

        One lie:  Biden said he voted against the Iraq war.  Not true.

  • maliamd

    I don’t know how Ryan kept his cool.  Women are very sensitive to being called names like “little lady” “girly” “sweetie” etc.  It would have taken a great deal of strength on my part not to reach over and slap him after calling me “friend” one more time.

  • Liamouighans

    I am a conserevative Republican and retired as a regular Army Colonel after more
    than 30 years active duty include combat in WWII and VietNam.  I think Biden
    acted like an arrogant egot istical Politican vs Statesman but-
    I heartily agree that we will accomplish nothing by further investment of troops and
    treasure in Afghanistan and should withdraw all troops from the Mid-East ASAP.  At
    the same time we should give top priority to anti-missile detect and destroy system
    perfection and maintain and advertise the capability to launch a devastating misssile
    counter attack on any nation attacking us or our allies.  Deterrence worked vs the
    old USSR for over 40 years and should be our basic defense strategy backed up by
    overwhelming military force in-being and in-Conus.  Nation-building etc is pure
    nonsense except by setting an example by perfecting our own government and
    our own economy.

    • TarHeel456

      Thank you for your long service to our country.  I agree with all you’ve said.

      Ryan’s point was NOT that Romney-Ryan have any desire to stay in Afghanistan.  He stated that we shouldn’t tell the enemy exactly when we plan to leave.  (DUH, that would seem very obvious to me, but apparently not to our current fearless leader.)

      The following comments are not directed to you, they are just my general opinion statements:

      I don’t believe that Romney-Ryan want to keep our troops in Afghanistan for nation building; I believe that Ryan was trying to make the point, when not busy being interrupted every time he spoke, that if we have troops in-country, they should not be understaffed (vis-a-vis American troops) in fighting positions.  We need to hand combat operations over to the Afghani’s for sure, but when we do, we should DO IT – not have so few of our own men there for any potential slaughter.  And we SHOULD NOT tell the enemy when we plan to do so!  They’ll certainly figure it out soon enough.

      Bottom line:  only Obama thinks it’s smart to actually TELL the enemy what we plan to do AND when we plan to do it.

  • Liamouighans

    Anyone who needed an Intelligence Warning to be on  special alert for trouble
    on 9/11 from Islamic Terrorists should not be in a position of authority.

    • venter

      Agree,  All Americans know that 9/11 is a day we remember the people   who were killed and we are fearful on that day that it will happen again…Our leader should have been aware that nothing has changed with the war on terrorists.  OBL may be dead but the war isn’t.

  • Marian Degner

    Biden it’s Winner, Ryan Loser

    • http://twitter.com/PhilSilverman7 Phil Silverman

      Ryan should be running for Asssemblyman in Rhode Island. All due respect. Just ain’t ready for that level of office.

      • Jeffreydan

          He would’ve been a better man for the job of president than Obama if he had campaigned in 2008, and he’s infinitely superior to Obama now. I admit that being better than Obama isn’t a major achievement, though.  

  • venter

      I think  what we saw in the debate last night was scary.  Our  vice president  looked like a  clown.  It was embrassing for the USA..   We hope he doesn’t  act that way when he is with world leaders…Ryan was very respectful and is a very smart, and experienced.  Like  JFK, Ryan will get even better.  What Ryan said about JFK and  cutting taxes to help the economy was true.  The VP  should check it out . Biden with all his experience  came to the table with the same old liberal game and didn’t prove to me that I can trust this administration any more!!!!  WHY ? Liba, Video, 7/8% unemployment, 5,000,000 jobs ,Obamacare  2,300+pages  , the over use of Big Bird who has dyed his feathers gray and is in hiding from the IRS  on and on!

  • IJustHaveAQuestion

    There are no details coming out of the Romney Ryan side. Do you have any idea why, Bernie? It’s the only thing I notice and take away from these debates.

     

    • Marian Degner

      I agree with you 100% !

    • Ahalbert

      Is it realistic to expect the President to detail in speeches and debates how over 70,000 pages of federal tax code will be simplified? A President needs to give the guidelines, which Romney has, and Congress needs to dissect and make the thousands of necessary changes. That’s their job. How long is Obamacare…2500 pages plus another 14,000 in regulations? Again, President gives guidelines, Congress should be responsible for executing details. When it comes to fixing the economy, what liberals don’t understand is the meaning of growth.  That’s how the government can increase revenue and balance the budget without raising taxes. I strongly recommend listening to JFK’s speech on lowering taxes to stimulate the economy. You may not believe what you hear. Liberals don’t want today’s Democrats to hear it. It will provide a sense of how far the Party has drifted in its current demonization of capitalism.

  • Susan Pillsbury

    What is wrong with you? Stick to the issues.

    • Marian Degner

      Biden it’s Winner ! Ryan Looser, so You !!!

      • Jeffreydan

          Marian, very seriously, learn about spelling and grammar before any more posts. It’ll help you more than anyone else, and at least be less of a headache for the reader to boot.

  • Comanche Sun

    Amazing is how this poor excuse for a moderator allowed Joe the plagiarist Biden get away with the disgusting display of rudeness by allowing Biden to continually interrupt Paul Ryan, then she kept cutting Ryan off with allowing him to complete his answers.   I thought such debates have a set of rules moderators and participants must follow.  I’ll wager Raddatz is neck deep in the tank for comrade Barak and his a-hole Biden.

    • Marian Degner

      Biden it’s Winner !

      • lemonfemale

        That’s “ei” and only one “n”

    • Cheshboy

      Seeing as Obama was at Raddatz’s wedding, you are probably about 100% right! 

  • Susan Pillsbury

    I am wondering if any other women experienced VP Biden as chauvanistic in his behavior toward his “inferior” VP nominee Ryan. A lot of women have worked for jerks who behaved just like Biden last night in that debate, condescending, mocking, talking over hirelings, demeaning overall. And it was frustrating to listen to the debate hoping to hear the different issues (which I thought was the purpose of the debate) only to have Ryan cut off so frequently, even by the moderator. What was Biden so afraid of that he couldn’t allow Ryan to lay out the issues, and then allow us to make up our own minds? Anyway, Biden seemed like an old school chauvinist whose behavior last night diminished the position of Vice President.

    • TarHeel456

      Yep!  Exactly, Susan.

  • Hjbrager

    A devoted Democratic friend of mine volunteered that she thought that VP Biden was so rude she could hardly watch the debate. I think that he may have lost some of the female vote with his actions.

  • http://www.citizenjournalistnow.com/ Ron Ross

    At Biden’s first sneer/smile I told my wife, “If that’s his tactic, it’s not going to work.” She agreed and eventually left the room because she could not stand to watch Biden’s disrespectful ways. 

    • Ksp48

      It was painful. Especially when the subject matter was terrorism, war, death, unemployment, poverty. 

  • rlpincus

    From that lair of liberalism, CNBC: 

    Rep. Paul Ryan, a fiscal conservative and
    critic of federal handouts, has sought for his constituents an expansion
    of food stamps, stimulus money, federally guaranteed business loans,
    grants to invest in green technology and money under President Barack Obama’s health care reform law.

    Such
    requests are at odds with the Republican vice presidential candidate’s
    public persona as a small-government advocate and Tea Party favorite who
    has pledged to tighten Washington’s belt.

    A lot of details on Ryan’s love of the stimulus and green jobs initiatives.

    • nickshaw

       I don’t think so. A congressman’s sole responsibility is to his constituents. If the federal government passes a program to support the citizens of the United States, no matter if the congressman voted for it or approved of it, it is his duty to partake of such a program for those he represents.
      I see no shame in Republicans accepting or even asking for such benefits.
      What did you expect the right side of the aisle to do, sit back and let Kalifornia, New York and Chicago collect the trillion dollars?
      Be serious. Sometimes the principles of a representative have to take a back seat to the needs of those he or she represents so, stop with that line of BS.

      • OldTownMom

        I don’t have time to look it up – the companies that Ryan requested funds for – have they gone bankrupt or are they still solvent.  To me that is the real issue – millions of dollars went into KNOWN sinkholes – Solyndra was predicted to go bankrupt and still they got money – that is what Ryan should have come back with.

  • Shane

    Why did Obama send the Joker to debate Ryan? Where was Biden? Biden is unstable and Ryan was lucky Biden didn’t sucker punch him.

  • floridahank

    After looking at that phony “smile” that Biden used all night, I wished I could have given him a kick in the _ss.   He looked like a jerk and an idiot to boot.  What a sorry VP, but I’m sure Obama thinks he’s great.  They make a comedy pair — Oliver and Hardy are alive and living in DC.

  • bobemakk

    I disagree with you Bernie.  Just due to Bidens snickering, and arrogance, he looked down at Paul Ryan, just proves what a jackass Biden really is….and Biden also lied a number of times.

  • rlpincus

    Did you all love how Nevermind-fan Paul Ryan lifted the “Bean” story from Nirvana front man Kurt Cobain?  With a straight face, too.

    • Kingsfan1652

      Right and I named my dog bear because it looks like a baby bear.
      Anyone else who calls their dog bear is stealing it from me, and with a straight face nonetheless less.

      • rlpincus

         So you haven’t heard of Ryan’s long time affection for Nirvana?  A little different from your bear story.

        • CCNV

          Jealous because you had a turd instead of a bean?

      • Cbkaufman

        Silly boy. Bean or Beaner is a common nickname for babies because of this very point. Nirvana didn’t start it.

    • nickshaw

       So? What’s your point? Lots of us nickname or even name our kids after hearing someone else’s story.
      You don’t believe him when he said the fetus looked like a bean so the nickname stuck?
      I wonder what his child said? Daddy, you don’t call me bean!?
      I kinda’ doubt it.
      You are really grasping at straws here.

  • kayakbob

    Dear Bernie,

    Actually I must disagree. The clear winner of the VP debate was…

    Al Gore..as you noted at the end of your piece.

    Now Gore is not the biggest jerk to ever grace a Presidential debate state -  at least since they began being televised.

  • sendtheclunkerbacktochicago

    82 Interruptions by Biden of Ryan – 32 Interruptions by Raddatz of Ryan – The fix was in.  It was pathetically moderated and Joe Bite Me looked like Joe Bite Me.  God help us that this man was a heart beat away from being our President.  John Kerry, John Edwards and Al Gore all fit in that same package, all crack pots with a tinge of insanity eating away at their brains.  

    Here is a hot item that Bernie needs to take to Bill O’Reilly on Tuesday night in his segment.  There is an Indiana SUPERIOR Court Judge, that’s right, a SUPERIOR Court Judge that has ordered a trial for an Obama ballot challenge set for October 22nd.  There have been many, many ballot challenges going on across the country and the little cowards like Bernie and Bill O’Reilly and the rest of their friends at Fox refuse to cover.  This one cannot be ignored, it is a SUPERIOR Court Judge for crying out loud.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/10/indiana-judge-orders-obama-ballot-access-hearing.html

    • bobemakk

      When will they have a fair and balanced commentator running these debates?  Notice all of them are liberals, the lamestream media wins again.  However, Romney/Paul will win the election.  Pray that they do.

      • MarioP

        And if Romney doesn’t win, blame it on praying shortfall.

    • Jeffreydan

        I’m trying to figure out the best way to motivate people to take interest in a cause I’m into, and amazingly enough, calling them “little cowards” didn’t make the final cut.

        Readers, please forgive my uncharacteristic, line-crossing gutter response here:
        Clunker, next time you have an insult lined up for the owner of this site, instead of posting it go shove it up your ass.     

  • greatj

    Watching the Vice presidental debate i could not believe how Joe Biden behaved,when Ryan was answering questions Biden was laughing,making faces,interupting.Bidens behavior was emotionally disturbed while Ryan was measured and calm.Biden was disgraceful.

  • http://twitter.com/Pundit_Pete Peter Boddie

    You might like the reactions to the debate posted at the Pundit Pete Press Service (satire).
     http://www.punditpete.blogspot.com/2012/10/reactions-to-vp-debate.html

    My favorite:
    I predict that Joe Biden will be given a starring role in a sitcom on NBC after January 20th.

    —Prognosticator Pete

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/2YDX5I5GQXZ2KHVHKKTLRICZUY American Veteran

    Mr. Ryan tolerated and endured Mr. Biden.  That, all by itself, makes him a winner in my book.  The fact that Mr. Ryan kept a steady course was remarkable.  And Mr. Ryan closing remarks were the “stake in the heart” to Mr. Biden.

  • Looking for Leadership

    I would have liked Congressman Ryan to pivot on the VP and ask him precisely what it was that Biden found amusing about a dead Ambassador and 3 other Americans. Or did the prospect of a nuclear Iran tickle his funny bone more? Or maybe it was the fact that Medicare will go bankrupt if we don’t change course in short order and do what we can to shore up the program for future generations.

    His atrocious demeanor last night was a clear illustration of the lack of respect that he and the rest of the Obama administration have for differing opinions on how to solve the problems of the nation. It explains precisely WHY no efforts are made to reach across the isle and negotiate a compromise. They believe that if you don’t agree with them, you are wrong.

    It is time for a new kind of President who truly knows how to work with BOTH parties and come together to (finally) solve some of our nations most pressing problems. President Obama lacks this essential leadership skill. It’s his way or the highway. Time for a REAL change!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/George-Williams/1043005143 George Williams

      “They believe that if you don’t agree with them, you are wrong.”  That’s understating it.  If you don’t agree with them, then they’ll call you a liar and a scoundrel or perhaps a racist.

  • Wiley

    I could hardely set  through the 90 mi. with Joe Biden smurking all the time. The lady should have just ended the debate .Joe Biden is a stuped person.

    • CCNV

       She is NO lady..she’s a liberal!

  • Iraocreel

    Biden’s demeanor is typical of the Obama administration ; arrogant , smug ; all-knowing ; deceitful ; over-confident ; obnoxious ; insulting and just plain vile. The only thing that Biden got right was saying it’s time Romney and Ryan took responsibility — he’s right , they will be taking all responsibility next January.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/George-Williams/1043005143 George Williams

      The only thing I disagree with you is that it you’re not comprehensive enough, having left out a couple of dozen more adjectives.

  • Smiley

    To me it was quite clear that Biden’s mission was to be primarily defensive.  The Obama team knows that Ryan can be very articulate, logical and convincing in laying out the different course he and Romney have for the country.  They also know Biden is neither as articulate and they have no new course that has not already failed.  So what to do is to use Biden’s strengths of being sharp elbowed and get away with it because it is only Joe.  So if you think about it, 90% of the time he was trying to knock Ryan off message through all of his antics and only 10% on offense.  His offense consisted of entirely populist liberal rhetoric whith no policy substance at all. “My parents” were this and we just want to help the middle class – what does that mean?  I think Biden succeeded in muddling Ryan’s messaging by clouding it enough.  He did nothing to gain an undecided’s vote – possibly he halted the loss of more votes.   Ryan surely helped convince the uninformed that he is no Sarah Palin.  He is the real deal.

    • asl3676

      Ryan is a flip flopper who does what will advance his political career…A deficit hawk who voted for Bush tax cuts and expansion of medicare…

      • Smiley

        As most followers know, specific votes on measures is often not the best way to measure ones conviction to a principle.  There are often conflicts and compromises that cloud such things.  Try to argue that on balance Ryan does not have a more fiscally conservaitve voting record than either Obama or Biden.  After you get done with your resaerch, next try to argue that he will likely not be more fiscally conservative than either of these two idiots.
        That is the stark contrast choice that we are facing in this election – not some immaterial nonsense about this or that.  You want continued bigger government, more government intrusion, higher taxes, weak economic growth, weak employment and weaker military like that last four years?   If yes vote for the two incumbent idiots.  Or do you want smaller government, lower taxes for most and less government intrusion which will result in a stronger economy and more employment and a stronger military?  If yes, vote for Romney-Ryan.

      • Cbkaufman

        I guess you can look at tax cuts as encouraging the deficit, that’s if you see peoples’ income as belonging first and foremost to the government, and that a tax cut means  that the gov is giving people money. That view is more in alignment with a Marxist philosophy. 

        Others would see people’s income belonging to the one who worked for it and that taxes are what the government takes away from people (usually, or hopefully, with good reason) for the common good. 

        A major difference between the two parties and political points of view is to whom does a citizen’s property and money belong to (before it is paid as a tax to the gov.) – the citizen or the government?

    • Wheels55

      Biden is a puppet that squawks what ever he is told. Biden will be the new voice in Aflack commercials.

      • Smiley

        No argument.  Biden did not put forth or advance any next term policy inititiatives.  Ryan did.  Biden tried to distract from that message.  Unfortunately, I think he succeeded.  It is easier to distract from and object to someone’s ideas than to advance and defend your own initiatives.

        It will be interesting to see if Obama tries the same approach.  I don’t think so.  It will be too unPresidential.  Crazy uncle Biden can get away with it.  I hope Obama tries. 

  • Caligirl

    Biden reminded me of the dog showing his teeth as a sign of agression. The smiles were not always friendly gestures of joy. 

    • asl3676

      Joe reminds you of a dog? Ryan reminds me of Eddie Munster…..LOL

    • Sally

      And those TEETH! Good Lord, they had to be fake – maybe like the ones we wear at Halloween…

      • CCNV

        Not to mention the hair plugs!

        • Sally

          The funny thing about that is, isn’t a hair transplant supposed to give you thicker hair? But isn’t that a another combover?

  • barjandor

    True to form, the TODAY show invited none other than the unbiased Rachael Maddow to spew her garbage this morning.  This hack is so far up BO’s assets that she can see Biden’s shoes.  After last week’s debacle, anything that Biden said last night,  short of stating he was actually a closet Republican, would be considered a win. 

    Mr. Ryan came across as a gentleman dealing with a moron.  He won hands down. 

    Wonder what the Democrats would have said had the Romneys, and not BO,  attended the moderator’s wedding?  Does anyone actually believe she would have been permitted access to that stage last night?          

  • rbblum

    Looked as though Biden infringed upon Obama’s trademark. . . .the million dollar smile.

    • Sally

      At least Obama has real teeth…

  • rlpincus

    Yes, we want a second in command who has no idea what is going on in Afghanistan and wants boots on the ground in Iran.  And maybe he will force us all to read Ayn Rand while he lifts weights.

    • nickshaw

       Hey, you hired a guy to be first in command who had to hire Bloviating Joe because of his foreign policy experience!
      Or did you forget that?

  • sjangers

    You can just picture poor Joe Biden as the debate went along last night, attempting to hark back to his legal training more than forty year ago: “If the facts are against you, argue the law.  If the law is against you, argue the facts.  If the facts and the law are against you… what?… smile?… smirk?… throw your hands up?… interrupt?… plagiarize?… Oh, what the heck.  Just go with all five. One of them is bound to be right… hmmm, except plagiarize… I probably shouldn’t plagiarize.  I think I got into some trouble over that a while back.”

  • Dispatch66

    I was not at all impressed with Joe Biden as I had been. I thought he was rude, obnoxious, arrogant and full of himself last night. I thought Paul Ryan was a real gentleman and came off as sincere and down to earth (when he wasn’t being interupted by Biden). I was one of those undecided people but not anymore. Biden sent me over the edge and now it’s Romney for me.

    • sjangers

      That’s pretty much the real Joe Biden, Dispatch66.  You don’t see it all the time, but flashes of that arrogant and obnoxious personality have come through as long as I’ve been aware of him; perhaps twenty-five years now.  I have a friend, a fairly liberal Democrat, who once was a staffer on his Senate Judiciary Committee and claims that he’s a total azzhole.

  • Carolann113

     Joe Biden displayed a degree of disgusting behavior well beneath the office of Vice President and the human race itself. I was very disappointed by the “debate”. The moderator lost control, purposely or not, allowing Biden to interrupt in an attempt to discredit Ryan’s competency. Biden went on and on without interruption running into overtime and she did nothing to put him on a leash. I will say that many have given Biden credit for being a very nice guy. I believe it because of who has said it. So why is it Biden is using measures that go over the top in civility but rather gets down in the mud? I’m left with no other explanation then “look at who he works for”. Biden should secretly hope they lose the election in order to salvage some of his pride. As I am listening to the debate again as I write this, I must tell you he sure sounds like he believes the BS he is spewing & it does not sound like he’s acting or maybe he is, just that a very good actor. My God he is spinning every word, if I could I’d smack him in the face.
    Honestly Biden and this supposed debate is just another American embarrassment .Politics has always been ugly but politics today is vile. I’ve watched it deteriorate badly since 2007, I’ll let you figure out why 2007. Does politics need reform? Reform is not enough; Washington needs an “Exorcist”. Matter of fact, so does The United States of America and that is Obama’s signature accomplishment. I find it so very sad that a politician finds it necessary to stoop so low. Biden’s performance whether he was following orders or not is a new low, very disrespectful. I now classify him with right there with Axelrod!

  • Geraldodell

    NERO LAUGHS,,,CALIGULA PLAYS BASKETBALL AND HOBNOBS WITH HOLLY WOOD  WHILE ROME BURNS,,,,,

  • Wheels55

    I said earlier that I thought Biden did his job by being disruptive and making Ryan play defense. But I also think Ryan did his job by not losing the momentum achieved by Romney last week. If it seems like a draw, that was by design on both sides.

    But if you take the campaign tone set by Obama and his team on the whole, Biden summed that all up. So, does America like that disrepectful & in-your-face way of getting a message out?

    Oh, this just in: Romney still has not killed anyone, including that woman who died from cancer (refer to Obama lie #176). But Obama has blood on his hands in the death of our ambassador.

    • MarioP

      Don’t worry, the way Ryan was talking last night, Romney will have bloody arms up to his pits. No guaranteed pull-out from Afghanistan in 2014, and another lonely war without the world’s support in Iran. Why don’t you give Romney some scrubs.

      • Wheels55

        I not worried. You seem to be.

        • MarioP

          You heard what Ryan said last night. Therefore, your lack of worry is either due to your lack of caring for our troops, or you know Romney will lose.

          • Jeffreydan

              If you’re not troubled by the administration’s handling of the Libya consulate attack, including the recent revelations, then you lack a lot more than a sense of caring. 

          • MarioP

            How did the administration mishandle the attacks in Benghazi? What is wrong with reporting to the public the information which was initially available to the president, and then have it get changed on them? Should they have waited longer to finalize the intelligence? The Right was on Obama’s case for being too slow about the details and not addressing the nation after the attacks, although it took the administration only a day to give their initial statement.

            And if you’re so extremely troubled about the death of four Americans in Libya, were you 1,000 times more troubled about the Invasion of Iraq? Put yourself in the Left’s shoes and see how upset the Left must be about the 4,500 unnecessary American deaths in Iraq. If you’re more troubled about the death of four Americans in Libya than what Bush2 caused, then you certainly lack common sense.

          • Jeffreydan

             “How did the administration mishandle the attacks in Benghazi?” 

            Within 24 hours the intel indicated terrorist attack, yet they kept on with the video angle for several days.
              The security rep in Benghazi asked for more protection. Not only was he turned down, his contingent was also reduced!

              President Bush again? Please focus–these distractions are getting tiresome.

              Thanks for clearing up any doubts about whether the situation troubles you. 

          • MarioP

            Jeffreydan, see my response above. Search for

            RESPONSE TO JEFFREY DAN 10/15/2012 #2

  • http://twitter.com/Nola1997 NANO

    Biden was exceedingly rude and patronizing to his opponent. I believe most people would agree with Krauthammer: Biden won if you listened to the radio, but Ryan came off stronger if you watched the debate on television. MORE folks watched, so you do the math.

    At the end of the day, most people won’t remember one iota what was said because it was dry and a bit boring. But we will NEVER forget that bitter snarkiness and arm-crossed hostility that Biden projected to the national audience that night. Imagining him being a stone’s throw from the Presidency for another four years gives me nightmares!

    What do the majority of Americans want to see in a Second-in-Command? The same thing we want to see in our President, of course! We want to see a calm, measured, responsive (not reactive), thoughtful person who can handle the reality and stress that accompanies any number of situations and crises, understand fully the ramifications and consequences of any given decision, and be able to articulate the decision in a reassuring manner that ensures we feel safe in our little bubbles. We want to feel protected; we want a person with an inner resolve and personal fortitude to restore our place in the world. We want a leader, not drunk and mean-spirited Uncle Joe.

    Given his innate temperament and clear inability to control his emotions, Biden would create hysteria and probably  have most of America running north to Canada for safety!

    At this point, it wouldn’t matter who’s running against Obama. Knowing they don’t have the backs of the American people means a vote for Romney. And not voting is a vote for Obama. Again, people, you do the math and respond accordingly.

    • MarioP

      “Biden won if you listened to the radio, but Ryan came off stronger if you watched the debate on television. MORE folks watched, so you do the math.”

      And the math says: (Tie on TV) + (Win on Radio) = Win for Biden.

      • Sally

        I think your math is a little off: 
        As you said, more people watch TV than listen to radio:So a win on TV with more viewers vs. a win on Radio with fewer listeners = a Ryan win.

      • Cbkaufman

        CNN declared Ryan the winner by 4 or 5 points. (Pssst…. CNN is on tv.)

        • MarioP

          Pssst! CBS is on TV as well, and they declared Biden the winner by 19 points. But I was generous enough to play along with you all and call it a tie, even though the CNN poll was within the margin of error. In reality, I gave it to Biden 60/40.

          (Last week’s debate was Romney’s 70/30.)

    • Sally

      I just thought of something: Remember when Ryan said JFK had cut taxes, and Blustery Biden snarkily said, “Oh, you think you’re JFK now?”

      Well, re: the debate “winner” on radio vs TV:
      Biden is Nixon, and Ryan IS Kennedy.  

      Interesting how history repeats itself.

  • andy d

    one mans winner is the other mans loser and vice versa. in my opinion opinions are like assholes. everybody got one.  another truism is that i see that the facts never get in the way of an opinion. people believe what they want say what they want and do what they want. another thing is that the winners of these elections is decided by the lowest common intellectual or emotional denominator. using intellect is like … work so my opinion is that it is decided by emotional based decisions of the least intellectual or the lazy thinkers who bother to vote. that aside for a minute. people please think about this. how the heck are we to pay the 3+ trillion dollar bill we run up each year with only 2+ trillion dollars in taxes collected a year forever and ever and do you want more govt control in your life or less. and dont tell me about anyones hair plugs, religion, abortion, or anything else which is not relevant to being already bankrupt in every way you can think of in this country and all our problems being of our own damn making and living in denial

  • http://twitter.com/LindaMaldonado Linda Maldonado

    Biden lost me when he began yelling. He was condesending and Ryan could’ve turned up the heat a bit manners or not. The moderator was also a turn off for she kept asking follow up question of Ryan and seemed to be rescuing Biden ( like he needed it).

    This was just a clip of what’s to come in the next presidential debate for I guarentee you that Obama will bring to Romney hard and quick.

    Finally, am I the only one that is tired of hearing, “It’s just Biden” ? As if that excuses his behavior last night. Disgusted!

    • Susan Pillsbury

      yes, I am tired of hearing “it is just Biden” but I don’t think it’s an excuse so much as they are saying it is useless to argue over. In other words, it’s a way of saying, “what do you expect from a fool? It’s just Biden.”

    • Cbkaufman

      It’s like when they all comment on Obama and his staff’s heavy handed politics by saying, “It’s just the way of Chicago politics”. As if that made it ok.

  • Joel Wischkaemper

    I agree.. but that was big time stakes.  Ryan should have brushed it off, and hammered the BIG mistakes Obama has carried with him. 

    Obama had a Democratic Congree for two years before he was elected for an excellent setup for a Democratic President.  Obama had a Democratic Party for two years after he was elected and he didn’t get it done.  Someone tell Ryan he needs to practice his shoo fly routine.

  • PJMoore

     Proverbs 29:9 “If a wise man has an argument with a foolish man, the fool only rages and laughs…”  King Solomon must have had Biden in mind when he wrote this Old Testament proverb!!

  • Wayne

    No you are not alone, I will also remember the Biden/Raddatz tag team!!

  • Libertyman

    With Biden constantly and sarcastically referring to Ryan as his “friend” during the debate, I find it hypocritical when during his closing statement he never even acknowledged Ryan.  But Ryan, being the class guy he is, acknowledged Biden during his closing statement.  That sealed the deal for me on which candidate to vote for!

  • Ksp48

    Before the Debate I predicted that Biden would be charming, confident, authoritative and incorrect on every fact he uttered.   I was wrong. Biden was far from charming. 
    Unfortunately, Ryan seemed unwilling to correct Biden on most of his errors of fact. For example, Biden said that Iran was completely isolated in the world because of the greatness of Obama’s policy. Except that over a hundred nations just sent representatives to Tehran for a conference and the Secretary General of the UN attended despite pleas from the Obama admin that he not attend. Or, is there anyone in the world, anyone at all, who believes what Biden said about the close relationship between Obama and “Bibi”. Or that Israel and the US are on the same page or that Obama did not deliberately and very publicly humiliate and then slight the Prime Minister of Israel. Or the $5 trillion lie that even the Princeton professor they quote says is simply not true. Or to point out that tax rates and tax revenues are not the same.  I could go on and on,  but Ryan did not. Though each time he should have, the moderator insisted on changing the subject. Advantage Biden, though he almost blew it entirely with the maniacal smirking and guffawing. Worse than Gore’s loud sighing. You may be right, all anyone today is talking about is Biden’s wildly inappropriate (and nasty) behavior. 

    • Sally

      Ryan tried to correct Biden, but Biden interrupted him constantly. I do wish Ryan had kept calling out Biden for interrupting and had talked over Biden like lawyers do.

  • Giusepperides

    Biden clearly thinks all the problems that plague our country are a joke. Biden was the joke.

  • Gerpac

    Good “Old Joe”frequently uses the word “malarky” to make a point.  Since he is so full of it
    he is an expert when it comes to the use of the word. His demeanor during  the  debate was shamefull and about as un-vice presidential as anything I have seen and heard in my many years of following presidential debates.

  • justlisa

    You are not alone…

  • Holybull71

    I agree 100%. I wanted to punch Biden too. Total bully

  • Joel Wischkaemper

    But, but, but…  We know what Obama has failed at and one of them is that deep dark hole we can correctly call the money pit.  (Never coming back!)  Remember the tort reform he promised?  Remember his suggestion he would fix the Immigration Problem.  Trouble there was he didn’t mention he would revert to open borders and boy that didn’t please any of the Americans.  I just came up with a severe head ache, but didn’t he say tax reform a dozen, dozen times in the last campaign?  No tort reform.. we have MORE illegal aliens now than then, and he hasn’t uttered a single word about tax reform to my knowledge since he became President, and Biden took his trusty VP spot.  No light excaped from those guys at all.

    Paul Ryan should have done better, and no matter which of that team debates, you can be sure they will give any sideline face making full coverage during their turn at talking.  This is a liberal press folks.. but don’t forget Biden lost for each of the last four years, and he lost last night when he didn’t deal with it.

  • 5843supie

    another negative review by the angry jew…..     Hey,  that rhymes….
    move on bernard,  move on….   you are so predictable and stale….

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001008789256 Bob Brown

    Bernie, you’re not alone. Biden has been in DC so long, he thinks he is invincible. We’ll see.

  • bonaparte3

    Biden’s uncouth behavior dominated the debate and Ryan was struggling to remain civil in the face of it. As a result, the left will declare that Biden won- because he was an obnoxious bully. It was an asinine demonstration of the smug self-righteousness of the left.

  • phillipcsmith

    I agree completely with your analysis. I am weary about the 47% and other distortions constantly brought up by the democrats. 

  • Iklwa

    If anyone was even slightly surprised by Vice President Biden’s behavior during the debate, it says they are unfamiliar with modern liberal tactics in any discussion. If the opponent does not agree with the liberal (on whatever subject), that opponent is demeaned, ridiculed, satirized, marginalized and otherwise discredited both professionally and personally at every opportunity.
     
    Heaven forbid the discussion should be constrained by the bunds of good manners and truth!
     
    We had on display before our very eyes a perfect caricature of the American White Liberal in attack mode…Oh, and I forgot to include a comment on anger.
    Here I was, thinking that the American Left and the Great Undecided Middle were appalled by the Angry White Male. To hear Mr. Biden’s lauds today one might be led to believe he was the very picture of everything best in the American, middle-aged man: angry, balding, pompous, loud, rude, condescending and belligerent???
     
    I know I’m not the smartest guy surfing the net but I don’t believe it takes much discernment to detect hypocrisy in what the American Left terms the “ideal man”.
    As with so many other benchmarks within liberalism, the idea of “perfect” dances and wavers like heat shimmers above the desert…changing as the need arises.
     
    I am glad for the democrat base. They got what they wanted. Even tree-humping vegetarians need red meat from time to time. It would appear they got a dose last night.
     
    It will be interesting to see if it lasts through next month.

  • Bruce A.

    Joe Biden reminds me of the crazy uncle everyone has but does not want to admit to.

    • 5843supie

      crazy uncle’s are put in the attic bruce…..   V P Biden was on T V 
      just ’cause angry bernie didn’t like him doesn’t mean he did not do good….

    • MarioP

      And who does Palin remind you of? Your psycho cousin?

      • Bruce A.

        Certainly not you.   She has a brain,  backbone  & is quite capable of fending for herself. 

        • MarioP

          Chickens have brains, corpses have backbones, and Palin sure held her own against Couric. Thank you for not comparing me to Palin. You would have insulted me.

          Oh, and there is that wacky Bachmann sister. The Right is beyond crazy; they dig deep into their stash of insane.

          • Carolann113

            I suggest that everyone simply ignor MarioP.  Answering would only serve to feed his/her’s sick appetite. 

          • MarioP

            Good suggestion. Ignore me, because what else do you have left?

  • RHD

    You were most definitely NOT alone.  Your tweet about wanting to jump through the screen reflected my wife and my feelings exactly!
    Rude, condescending, disrespectful – take your pick.

  • DB

    Ya, probably a wash.  Biden
    set the stage for some fear points that Ryan did not strongly shut down.  Never before saw a candidate point his
    finger, debate and get angry with the moderator.  That behavior and Biden’s reference to Sarah
    Palin makes me feel like he’s a “male chauvinistic pig” in
    disguise.  There’s not too many of those
    around anymore.  Thought the moderator,
    Martha, did fine and was unbiased.

  • Mark Brickey

    Biden stumbled, himhawed, uuummmmed, uuuhhhed, made faces, sighed, interrupted, made very condescending remarks. as usual, he blew his statements bigger than “life” (no, not gonna say “lie, but…).
    Biden is SUPPOSED to be “the” statesman, “THE” experienced orator, but compare them!
    Biden: rumpled, rude, condescending, interrupting, facial tone, squirming, fidgety, not loking into the camera & when he did look at Ryan, it was as “what a fool”…  not acknowledging the opponent (closing statement), “stretching” statements, etc. etc. AND no principles ie; his “Catholicism”, social issues (abortion) etc. He also made sure that he didn’t say “anything specific” & blame any & all others for the “O” problems. He definitely showed that he, as a Demeocrat/liberal/progressive can’t possible let “principles & values – especially “religious” ones – stand in the way of fascist/communist “progress”.
    Ryan:  Poised, ready, knowledgeable  quite specific (except that moderator cut him short & Biteme kept interrupting), polite yet firm. Definitely was a FAR better “orator” without himhawing, umming & uhing. He knew what he wanted to say, what he wanted to present & SHOWED it. He didn’t spend the evening condescending & interrupting. Finally, two biggies – 1) He faced the camera often, talking to US, not the moderator. He also faced Biden w/o making faces at him;  2) He ACKNOWLEDGED  & Thanked Biden in his closing statement. Gentlemanly, in an honorable way.

    Neither BiteMe or O’Liar would have passed my 8th GRADE English class (Homeschool Group, by the way) Speech & Debate section. 

    The differences are MASSIVE
      

  • rlpincus

    At least we know that Sarah…er, Paul was well hydrated.

  • Dustty

    I didn’t see Biden as a jerk. I saw him as an idiot. I thought he was doing fine on substance and if on nothing else, may have come out on top simply on being more seasoned than Ryan. The he went and ruined that chance on his own with his constant antics. It reminded me of when my children ask for something in a whining or rude manner. In that case, they are not likely to immediately get what they are asking for. I have to remind them that it is not about what they are asking of me, it is the manner in which they ask. The point is to teach them to behave in a mature manner. Let me rephrase my first thought, I didn’t see Biden as a jerk. I saw him as an immature idiot.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Irene-Peduto/100000057684599 Irene Peduto

    I will retweet this article, Mr. Goldberg.  I look forward to your insights because YOU were the one who helped change my political orientation.

  • CentralScruntinizer

    If a deeply partisan hack like Bernie is calling it a tie, you know it was a Biden win.

    • nickshaw

       I don’t find Bernie as partisan as you but, what would one expect a Scrunt to say?

      • CentralScruntinizer

         I find Bernie to be a cynical pundit who has found much profit in grinding personal axes from his earlier career, viewing the world through GOP tinted glasses,  and being the Amen corner for O’Reilly’s most blustery paranoid sentiments – But even I wouldn’t call him a scrunt.  That’s a pretty foul label and even Bernie deserves better.

        • nickshaw

           Then don’t label yourself.

          • CentralScruntinizer

            Oh Nick, how could I battle that quick wit of yours?

        • Brett

          Are you kidding? You didn’t get what nickshaw was saying, Mr. Bleeding Heart. He was referring to YOU, Central “Scrunt”inizer. What a dip stick. You can’t even spell your own nom de plume. The only hack on this page is you, and that’s being kind.

          • CentralScruntinizer

            Goodness Brett, You’ve crushed me – Perhaps you could move from your trailer of mirth out in Pomona and move to Belize to join Nick – He’s got a 5 watt station spinning Winger 45s and Right Wing idiocy down there, and you’d be the perfect addition…

          • Brett

            The 5 watt station he has is 5 watts stronger than the lightbulb that goes off in your head when you get a thought.

    • MarioP

      Exactly! When a puppet from the Right calls the debate a tie, that’s a declaration of victory for the Left.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/K5A73JJEX7YTIUKJQOLOHSFWCA Honesta

      A puppet from the right that looks at the content of the answers and the delivery and comes to the conclusion that Ryan won can’t be all wrong.  After all, Bernie is from the ‘right’  and Paul Ryan is from the  ‘right’ and Joe Biden escaped from the insane asylum.  To smirk and grin when talking about the tradegies in Benghazi is unacceptable to me.  The lie about the Catholic Church not being affected by the HHS mandate made Biden look like the complete fool, especially when Ryan asked him if the Church liked it so much, why were the suing over it.  Ryan = Statesman.
      Biden = Lying Buffoon!

  • Peep

    Biden makes those faces normally.  I didn’t even notice it.  I couldn’t get past the fact that they are still in CYA mode over Libya.  Hillary Clinton is responsible for the murder of 4 people.  It’s a big deal!  When is someone going to tell them to their face, it’s not small potatoes.  Clinton whiffed on Libya three times.  Someone must ask them what intelligence report told them the murders were the result of a video.

    And Biden doing his O’Reilly schtick of interrupting constantly was also annoying.

  • joer1

    Joe Biden is a blowhard politician and a bullshitter without peer.  Anyone who “likes him”, is welcome to him!

  • rlpincus

    Biden was so condescending that everyone here gets to be just as condescending.  Hooray.

  • Guest

    Completely agree with your opening sentence. The visuals were so appalling and distracting from Obama that I could not hear what was being said from either of them.

    • joer1

      I’m sorry, perhaps I misunderstand you ….. What was it about Paul Ryan’s “visuals” that you found “appalling and distracting”?

  • Poc247

    It was hard to pay attention to what anyone was saying with Biden’s disrespectful and condescending theatrics. His role in the script was the bully. He sullied the office of Vice-President by acting like a thug and henchman for Obama. While foisting the blame on the intelligence community for the Benghazi attack, I was still agonizing over Middle East news reports on what the terrorists had done to Ambassador Stevens and pictures on the internet of them parading him before cameras…but to Obama…a “bump in the road”. And while castigating Ryan for voting support of defense spending what Biden didn’t add was that he voted yes too. This is what a career politician looks like and why there should be term limits. Biden has had many years to perfect the art of sleeze.

  • dahr

    Biden came off as a big jerk.  Not vice-presidential at all, but then, is this anything new?  He’s a buffoon.

    • Brett

      dahr,
      Calling Biden a buffoon is an insult to all buffoons.

  • ron

    Obama set the stage after his debate with Mitt Romney that he lost so bad. After the debate Obama claimed that he didn’t do well because he was “too nice” and “Romney lied”. So, Biden was under orders to take the stage from Ryan and give the impression that “everything” that Ryan is saying is a lie. The way he did it by acting immature I believe will work against him and their plan.

  • nono524

    You are right on Bernie

  • PAPUSA

    Biden was like a pit bull in heat.  I wish Paul Ryan had thrown water on the dog, but he deferred, maintained his cool and didn’t give the left any self destructive soundbites.  However, when you are running for leader of the free world (the VP’s potential fate), you must be able to show that you can handle bullies.

    If I have a criticism of Paul Ryan it’s that he was too deferential.  He had a good line about Biden being under stress, but that was a prepared comeback, not calling out the bully.  That being said, he was eminently more likable than Biden whose delusional cackling had me wishing Ryan would b*tch slap him.  Ryan’s tact had more class than my slap would have had.

    Biden’s demeanor was despicable,  Ryan’s was commendable.

  • asl3676

    Brilliant sermon from Rabbi Goldberg….and the flock says Amen, Rabbi Goldberg, Amen…

    • Anon90210

      Hey, bigot, why are you here?

      • asl3676

        Just checking on the reaction of the angry old white men to the debate last night….also like to check the brilliance that Bernie imparts to his flock of sheep…

        • Paul Courtney

          To that, I say, “Baaaah”.

        • DrSique

          “Rabbi Goldberg” “angry old white men”. Good to see that the radical left has polished it’s bigotry to a level never seen before. You did, however, forget to attempt throwing the race card at everyone else here. ‘Course, with your obvious disdain for everyone who isn’t exactly like you, that may have not gone over too well.

          • asl3676

            Would you rather me call him Reverend Goldberg? As a Jew I’d rather refer to Bernie as Rabbi..As a fellow New York Jew I’m sure Bernie doesn’t mind….

        • Wheels55

          Speaking of angry old white men…did Biden wake up from his nap yet today?

        • Brett

          Time and again, letters and numbers, you embarrass yourself with inane comments that show you for the obvious fool you are. Such a comment as this and others on the page make you totally IRRELEVANT. Your continued presence here indicates you have chosen to ignore my heartfelt advice…stop wasting our space, time and oxygen….JUMP.

    • Ksp48

      While Rabbi’s are highly educated and generally very articulate, so I can see how you’d make such a mistake, actually Goldberg is a journalist.  Or were you just vomiting anti-semitism? 

      • asl3676

        As a Jew I don’t know any Jewish anti-semites…I do know people who vomit…

  • nickshaw

    I agree there was no clear winner, Bernie but, I will say this, Biden did not actually change his tactics to be more aggressive to make up for his boss’s failures last week.
    Biden acted how he always does when confronted.
    Imagine Biden in a diplomatic post negotiating with an opponent. Do you think they would accept his laughing at their positions? He could never be a Secretary of State for just that reason. It’s like discussing politics with the slightly drunk know it all in a bar.
    Apart from his obvious gaffs, like Syria is bigger than Libya in land area, voting FOR wars that he now decries as being on a credit card (aren’t all wars on a credit card? Wasn’t Libya’s “kinetic action” on a credit card?) and the terrible performance of throwing the intelligence community under the bus for Benghazi when they are refuting what the White House is saying at every turn.
    That last is significant, by the way. Biden calls the intelligence guys incompetent yet relies on them for their opinion of Iran? I ask you, in which place do you think the intelligence is more reliable?
    In pure style and considering Ryan has had no experience on a national stage, I give a slight edge to Ryan.
    If they were given the chance of another debate, Ryan would destroy Biden as thoroughly as Romney did Zero.
    As to Martha, I thought she started off okay then, as the debate progressed, covered for her favorite. That was obvious.

    • Ksp48

      “Apart from his obvious gaffs, like Syria is bigger than Libya in land area, ”
      I thought that was what he said, but I convinced myself I must have heard that incorrectly. 

  • kayakbob

    And did anybody notice there was not one question related to Obama’s crowning legislative achievement – Obamacare?    The moderator is too savy not to think this is worth discussion, so I suspect she didn’t include it because it isn’t popular and she knew it.

    That said, I don’t blame her for Ryan’s inability to shut down a jackass. “Blaming the moderator” is what the left did for 6 days after the Romney-Obama debate.

  • http://twitter.com/Jcdavidson37 John C. Davidson

    The whole Liberal party consists of a complete case study of mental degeneration in our society.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZSWPLM3LSL7UHQWAR63AQT4VQM debraNsatx

       Well said and spot on.

  • floridahank

    It’s obvious that Martha was pro-Democrat, how could you not see that.  Biden sounded like a loud mouth who doesn’t know courtesy when debating.  His contstant interruptions where very annoying and Martha should have asked him to wait his turn, but she was afraid of him — that was obvious also. All in all, the debate didn’t persuade anybody to change their vote, but Ryan came across as a decent person and Biden as a vain person who thought he deserved to be heard more than Ryan.  But Biden lost that card.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZSWPLM3LSL7UHQWAR63AQT4VQM debraNsatx

       To cap Glen Beck’s tweet:  “That must have been one hell of a toaster the President gave her for a wedding present.”  I agree.

  • Pat

    Dems have that tendency to ‘over rule’ you with their emotional and often with the ‘off the cuff’ made up stories to further engage their points.  Ryan, who this morning was accused of using already- made- up Q cards, by A….(brain blank out).  Ryan spoke in easy  to understand English and easy to follow. Biden did not. The content of most answers  HAD to be listened to with full attention.  Dems claim, this morning, Ryan couldn’t answer the
    questions.  They are pushing the ‘insulting’ part of their attacks onto Ryan, as they themselves have no substance.  These tactics are games children play when they are caught in lies and obfucations….Remember??? I do.  But these games come in handy to take any blame off them.  Typical! 

    • Joel Wischkaemper

      I think those made up stories are the biggest difference between pragmatic people, and those liberals who believe in fairy tales, and that Uncle Sam is really Santa Clause.

  • Jareck80

    I was stunned by how the moderator allowed Biden to go so far over the top.  I think the time split doesn’t even show the real story because how effective can any message be when you have to restart your thought and get back on the rails when you were interrupted 127 times (reportedly 96 by Biden and 31 by moderator)

  • kayakbob

    After the first 30 minutes, it seemed clear to me that Biden’s theatrics were part of a plan to distract Ryan, if not simply get under Ryan’s skin in hope of a snarky response from Ryan – which would have been paraded around for a full week by Obama’s base…the media. 

    However, I think Ryan needed to respond in some way – not retaliate, but respond. And more so because it seemed clear this moderator had “learned” from last weeks debate that she had to bend the event toward Biden, or she would be the target of her fellow pundits today.

    I think someone with more debate experience than Ryan had would have been able to turn the table on Biden.

  • Elaine Coyle

    I never had a good opinion about Obama, but I always thought of Biden, as a nice PA
    guy.( I was born in PA) I have revised my opinion.He was rude, but Ryan should have been more assertive. Remember that old saying,
    “Nice guys finish last.”

  • brendan horn

    One of the amazing things to me about Biden is that there are liberals in the media that can say that Biden is anything but a buffoon. I am  amazed that Biden can still consider himself a champion of the middle class when his policies have only brought harm to the middle class. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are to the middle class what Lennie from Of Mice and Men was to bunnies, mice, and women. They hug and squeeze, love, and then accidentally suffocate the middle class. That is not what I consider a champion.

  • ivannavi

    Right on! Biden was arrogant and mean spirited. He’s not interested in solutions – his interest is retaining power and his own personal wealth.

    He spoke about the how bad is was to live in Scranton, PA, people there had no chance to get ahead. Poor Joe – he’s multimillionaire. And poor Obama, he had no chance, nothing was fair for him, and he’s the President and also multimillionaire. Pure crap.

    His strategy and tactics were right out of Saul Alinsky’s (an American communist) Rules for Radicals.

    RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

    RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.

  • floridahank

    The overall picture was class vs. classless, and Ryan came out ahead in that respect. I thouoght the presentations by both where “too much”  and for the average person nothing was solidified as to what and where each was. With Romney and Ryan, we get a good picture of an attempt to have a practical, effective way to solve our problems.  With Obama and Biden, I see where we continue going down the path of spend $$$ we don’t have, and “trust us” to do the right thing— Oh yeh….”We’re from the government and we’re here to help you…”   Believe that and I’ll see you on welfare.
    Romney has a business mind mentality and will let small businesses thrive and get the unemployment figure down — today the real figure is 12-15% if you read the real numbers and not the Labor Dept’s “cooked books” of 7.8% — how can they say that with a straight face — but I guess liars can do that.

  • Wheels55

    Loveable Joe didn’t seem so loveable last night. I think he did exactly what he was asked to do: be forceful and put Ryan on the defense. But the thought of Biden being so close to running this country should scare even those on the left.
    If you are an Obama supporter, you may think Biden won because he showed that young punk a thing or two. But if you are undecided in any way, you should think how Obama’s campaign has been all about what Biden showed last night – mean, insulting and without any substance on most issues.
    I think Biden only scored on the general topic of troops in the middle east deal, abortion (for abortion fans) and on casting doubt on the Romney/Ryan plans for the middle class. In an hour and half, that is five minutes of substance.
    If people were scared of McCain four years ago because of Palin on the ticket, they should be scared of Obama/Biden.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Doug.Kaiser1 Doug Kaiser

    I  think Biden served to energize the lib base but I cannot believe any Undecided would have thought his interruptions and smugness served any useful purpose . Undecideds want answers,  not theatrics. Ryan made a few good points. But the big disappointment was moderator Martha Raddatz who took on the role of cross-examiner of  Ryan (and not Biden), a job that Jim Lehrer take on with Obama-Romney.

  • David R. Zukerman

    Vice President Biden showed voters, last night,  the temperament of the hard left true believer.  His performance explains why there is little bipartisanship in Washington — for the hard left it is their way or no way.  Biden showed voters, last night,  that when  the hard left cannot get its way, it will resort to obstructionism, obfuscation and demagoguery.  Martha Raddatz tried mightily, I believe, to be a neutral moderator, but, eventually gave up the struggle, and  tilted way towards Biden.  

  • fuchsia1

    CBS is calling Biden the winner.  They cooked up some poll to confirm that.  Biden mugging and laughing off mic while Ryan was describing the impending horror of a nuclear Iran… was ghastly.

    • asl3676

      “impending horror of a nuclear Iran”? Right out of the Republican playbook of the 50′s and 60′s…be afraid..be very afraid…

      • Jeffreydan

          You seem conveniently distracted from the topic at hand, a*s**l*, so let’s try a little focus.

          Unlike what appears to be majority opinion, IMO VP debates may have at least a little influence on the election. In this case, Biden was largely able to shake the gaffe habit to his credit, so it’s fair to assume that if there were any viewers’ final thoughts, instead of  “Biden’s such a moron,” they would more likely be “Biden’s so rude & childish.” (I almost said “angry & bitter” but those words are trite and lazy.) Again, it’s only supposition on my part. 
          The debate didn’t end up exactly like I had expected. Biden did pretty well on the topics being discussed, so he wasn’t embarrassed by Ryan’s arguments like I thought he would.
                   
          He certainly embarrassed himself well, though.        

        • asl3676

          I respect your opinion….However, as an attorney I can tell you that zealous advocacy is often more important than the potential for personal embarrassment….As an attorney, Joe knows the rules of the game…If you believe in Medicare vouchers and privatizing Social Security vote for Romney…. 

          • Jeffreydan

              Zealous advocacy really is a better description for Governor Romney’s approach in last week’s debate, not Biden’s in this debate. 

              Whether or not they can benefit you in another milieu, repeatedly interrupting someone, constantly giggling and smirking (even on serious topics), and general petulance would be beneath the office of a Tampa city councilman, and Biden is the VP of the United States! 

              His pettiness and rudeness didn’t help anyone or the debate, and I suspect you’d admit that if you weren’t so emotionally invested.       

      • Cbkaufman

        When you get into high school you’ll learn about the world and that there things, people, nations, to be afraid of.

  • Don

    You are not alone. At one point Biden made the comment that the Republicans need to move out of the way. Unfortunately that’s the standard Obama Team approach to doing business. This certainly does NOT build a coalition or a team, just creates divisiveness. Perhaps that’s why nothing gets accomplished in Washington. We need a leader one that can reach across party lines and build a coalition. Obvisiouly, based on the Obama/Biden approach as evident three plus years into their term they do not meet this criteria.

    • C-Nut

      Ryan did point ouy that Dems had total control for 2 years–move out of the way?

  • Superamerican

    Biden treated Ryan as liberalProgressives treat The People: dismissive.  They know, we the sheepeople follow.  That is the soul and spirit of the Democratic Party.

  • Bill C

    Biden embarrassed the United States in front of the whole world last night. Ryan should have brought up the “I’ll be more flexible after the election” remark by Obama to Putin. Hope Romney does it in the 3rd debate.

  • nobozo2012

    Excellent points.  I think the rest of America, at least those who looked at the debate objectively, felt the same way.  Perfect summary … it wasn’t Biden’s speaking that made him incredibly annoying and condescending, it was the way he listened.  He’s old school politics all the way down the line.  We don’t need any more of that.

  • C-Nut

    Isn’t it the moderators job to stop the interruptions??

  • John nazzaro

    The salient feature of the debate was Biden’s (flat out) lie regarding the Libyan events. Throwing the intelligence community and State Department under the bus isn’t a good idea if you are worried about blow back. And that will likely come quickly, and in a significant enough context to prevent its trivialization even by a pro Obama media. Biden’s target audience was of course the visceral left, and he did his job in recharging them after the President’s lackluster debate performance. Beyond these two observations, the debate of the VP is a transient event of limited significance, regardless of who” won”.

  • rlpincus

    Don’t worry, all you patriots.  My comment that Bernie has perfected the art of condescension was evidently removed.

    I’ve posted here with some regularity recently and will continue to do so.

    Watching Ryan stumble through Afghanistan then opt for a war with Iran reminded me of a corn bred Sarah Palin.  Way over his head on foreign policy, ready to criminalize abortion and–if he is to be believed–the Pill, and all set to install a new tax system he literally can’t explain. 

    Go ahead.  Blame the girl.

     

    • nobozo2012

       I’ve got a suggestion.  If you don’t like the site, why do you keep coming back?  I’ve got a sneaking suspicion no-one is paying any attention to you anyway, so you’re just wasting your time.  Do you really think you’re going to convince anyone on this site that your messiah and his buffoon of a VP is the right choice for America?  Take the five minutes you are wasting on your emails and go get some fresh air outside.  Everyone will be a lot happier.

      • Patrick

         Yeah I agree, I wonder why some people keep coming back if they don’t agree with absolutely anything on this site other than to be trolls. They belong on MSNBC or some other liberal asylum.

    • Paul Courtney

      We won’t worry, thank you so much for caring.  Blame the girl for what?  That rabid partisans like yourself think Ryan didn’t do well?  We’ve seen a very recent, clear example that when someone blames the moderator, it’s a sign of desperation.  Can you guess?

      • rlpincus

         So can you explain why so many right wing pundits are  blaming the girl (the moderator)?  Desperation?

        • Paul Courtney

          Looking here and NRO, don’t see anyone blaming moderator, pointing out her bias is not the same as blaming.  So you come here to criticize right wing pundits elsewhere?  Long way ’round the barn.

          • rlpincus

             I’d look around a little harder.  Right here.  Some samples:

            But the big disappointment was moderator Martha Raddatz who took on the role of cross-examiner of  Ryan

            Martha Raddatz tried mightily, I believe, to be a neutral moderator,
            but, eventually gave up the struggle, and  tilted way towards Biden.

            I was stunned by how the moderator allowed Biden to go so far over the top.

            It’s obvious that Martha was pro-Democrat, how could you not see that.

            The moderator is too savy not to think this is worth discussion, so I
            suspect she didn’t include it because it isn’t popular and she knew it.

            Desperation???

    • CCNV

      As biden would say, “Ho, ho, hee, hee, ha, ha, ho, ho, ha, ha”.

    • rlpincus

       “no one is paying attention…”

      But you paid attention long enough to  say the party line is demanded and expected here.

      Instead of offering advice, tell me how much you enjoyed Ryan’s Afghanistan flub.  Or how you are going to volunteer to invade Iran.

  • EMOGP

    You are not alone! When my children were young, they were repremanded for being disrespectful, such as what Biden did to Ryan. They grew up to be decent respectful human beings! Unlike Biden. 

  • ginger

    Romney/Ryan =class  obama/biden…not so much. Ryan showed his respect for the American people…biden continued his disdain of “believe me”lies.

  • Cowboy

    That Jackass Joe is a heartbeat away from the presidency should give all of pause. Can you picture this buffoon absentmindedly toying with the nuclear button?

    • nobozo2012

       Actually I can.  I picture him riding the nuke down from the belly of the aircraft laughing hysterically as seen on Dr. Strangelove.

  • morefandave

    For a lot of people who watched the debate, who haven’t paid much attention to politics, the VP debate was their first opportunity to see the two candidates, unfiltered.  The same was true last week for the presidential candidates.  You only get one chance to make a first impression.  I think in both cases, both Democratic candidates blew their chance.  Romney and  Ryan came across as credible alternatives to the present administration.  Their maturity, reasonability, and competence belied the months of attacks on them as wacko, out of touch extremists.  Obama’s only hope for re-election was establishing the alternative to him as worse than the present.  Last night helped kill that hope.  Barring a seriius gaffe by Romney, people will choose that alternative. 

  • Nealhixon

    At the very least, Biden’s behavior was a card played. The president will be careful not to use the same tactic next week.

  • Renabuz

    It would have been good if Ryan said “Since you keep calling me FRIEND treat me like one and stop interrupting me and doing stupid things while I’m having MY turn to talk”—and, while I’m on the subject of this debate itself, MARTHA, how about throwing some follow up questions at Joe too” even though you obviously agree with everything HE says.

    • ginger

      Ryan has more class and respect for the people …no one could shut biden up…that’s all liars know how to do…get louder and louder and talk over everyone to distract from substance…the moderator could not control him and didn’t try.

      • http://twitter.com/Farm_123 Tommy Farmer

        You’re so right, ginger.  Obama and Biden have absolutely nothing positive to run on or they would be shouting their accomplishments from the tallest building in Chicago. Since that’s the case, they absolutely have to resort to trashing their opponents who are decent and honest men who most Americans would be proud to call their elected leaders.  Can that be said regarding the corrupt and devious Obama and his blow hard partner in crime, Biden?  I almost fell out of my chair last night when Biden professed to be a good Catholic. Is this the same Biden who donated a total of $300 (according to his tax return).  What happened to the 10% tithing Mr. Good Catholic? Apparently, he only makes $3,000 per year.  Do the math, Joe!

        • ginger

          maybe biden confused Catholicism with communism…doesn’t know to which he belongs.

    • nobozo2012

       Better yet, tell her “If you don’t want to ask Biden the follow up questions, please allow me to”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1480837079 Steven R. Roy Sr.

      actually ryan did point out that he was being interupted. the boorish biden, as well as his lapdog raddatz, never even acknowledged it…all evening.

      remember this on 11/6/2012

  • chas615

    Joe Biden arrogant, condescending, and an out and out buffoon. I love how he and Obamao are painting the narrative that Romney and Ryan have no specifics but he was spouting about taxing only people who make over a million dollars. The problem was the president has stated he wants to tax anyone over 250,000. The problem (lie) was he was stating it would generate over $800 billion in revenue over ten years, That is only correct if you tax at the lower threshold of People earning over $250,000. so which is it mr joe the great? It sounds like,to use your term, a bunch of malarky!

  • James King

    Biden is like his boss, and has always been that way. He is a phony and a thug. You can’t say much more than that. Biden lost. Ryan did not win. But it doesn’t matter. And can anyone be surprised that CBS declared Biden the winner?

    • ginger

      CBS…oh yes  Communist Broadcasting of Amerika.

  • Tetonka76

    Biden didn’t do anything different….he’s still the idiot he’s always been…….they should put him in the next Bat Man movie…..he’s the “joker” for sure.  As far as Martha….she’s in the tank for the Dems as are the rest of the mainstream media…..no surprise there.  That’s what you get from the left wing morons….why is anybody surprised?  We’ll see if Joe’s rudeness resonates with the public to any degree.

  • ourearthlyangels

    Bernie is a journalist and not a candidate for VP or a professional politician who has advisors and image makers at his disposal. Goldberg spent many years as a reliable and accurate journalist.    Rlpincus, you can’t even stay on the topic, acommon democrat affliction.  

  • trollpincus

    Trolling? rlpincus has perfected that art.

  • GarandFan

    To my knowledge, no one has ever accused Barry or Joey of having any class.  Arrogance?  Yes.

  • Pacalaz

    Mr. Goldberg,

    Joe Biden’s behavior last night was not only disrespectful but shameful as well. I will always remember the Nixon Kennedy debates and the perspiration on Nixon’s forehead. Do I recall what anyone said in those debates? NO. But I do remember Richard Nixon looking like he had the flu or was very nervous by wiping his forehead and I am not likely to forget Joe Biden’s smuggness, rudeness, and smirks, smiles and sillinesss.

  • Peter the Average

    The CBS poll gave Biden the win 50 to 31 so that’s all you’ll hear from the left today.  But Biden not faring as well in other polls.  CNN has Ryan the winner 48 to 44, CNBC had Ryan the winner 56 to 36.  So, objectively Ryan at least held his own.  However, you’re exactly correct in that people just didn’t like the Biden theatrics.  He was viewed as a condescending buffoon, this was especially apparent with young voters who felt that Biden was talking down to them as well as Ryan.  Coupled with the fact that Biden flat out lied regarding Benghazi it was a good night for Republicans.  The new ad from the RNC asking the question “VP Biden is laughing, are you?” is brilliant and will negate any perceived bravado.  Lastly, the loss of life, the stagnant economy, people losing their jobs and their homes and expanding threats from the middle east aren’t exactly laughing matters.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dave.templeton3 Dave Templeton

    I turn my channel whenever I am viewing a program where the host or moderator INTERRUPTS rather than allowing  the “guest” to answer a question.  This is probably the most out-of-control debate I have ever attempted to watched.  Romney took charge of his debate and Ryan needs some “Newt Gingrich” training to learn how to control the reporter host!

  • Patrick

     Politics aside, Biden did bring a more aggressive edge that Obama was lacking in last week’s presidential debate and did manage to hold his own avoiding major speaking gaffes. That said, you’re absolutely right Bernie, Biden’s style and laughing are going to remembered more vividly than anything that was said last night when looked back upon. Sort of like how I bet more people remember George H.W. Bush glancing at his watch in the 1992 debate and Gore sighing than anything of substance that was said last night. Biden’s tactics were definitely great for firing up the liberal base and pissing off the conservative base, but I’m not sure how many independents (despite Robert John) are going to be swayed one way or the other by that.

    Either way, it’s certain that next week we’ll see a different Obama than we did in the last presidential debate and Romney has to definitely stay prepared and not get lazy from the last victory.

    • http://twitter.com/livsacrifice Stephen King

      Patrick, Biden said he voted against funding the wars, which is an absolute lie, and he totally disregarded all the info that has been released about Benghazi. You can’t say he didn’t make any major speaking gaffes.

      • Patrick

        Stephen, I know he lied about that. However he didn’t make any “goofy” gaffs like his “put you back in chains” comment for example that could raise eyebrows. Politicians of both parties lie of course, but Biden didn’t make any of the goofy gaffs he’s know for.

  • http://twitter.com/PortraitsPlus Aunt B

    “When
    a wise person debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs, and there is no
    peace and quiet.” Proverbs 29:9 Guess who the fool is? As far as the moderator is concerned she earned her wedding gift last night. Everytime Biden got himself into trouble she would interrupt and say “lets move on” and she would change the subject and tone.

  • Dphernet

    Joe Biden is an embarassment to our country. Bias? Are you serious?? Have you paid any attention at all to the last 3 1/2 years? Obama Admin hasn’t been bipartisan at all. Was Obamacare and the Stimulus bipartisan?  Paul Ryan is more intelligent and more of a leader than Biden. It is obvious.  Ludicrous plans you say? Should we just keep Medicare and Social Security as is?  No wonder our country is in such bad shape with MORON’s like you being able to vote for two incompentant , ignorant and childish slugs like Obama and Biden.

    • Robert John

      I was saying this blog is bias because I was reading all the tweets last night from Goldberg and at nearly every tweet I was wondering if we were watching the same debate. Also it’s so easy to argue republican V democrat like you just were to me. But I’m neither and I am solely talking about last night and the fact that Ryan, even when given a chance to talk about abortion (which he hasn’t stopped talking about in the media) even became quiet and rather timid.

      • CCNV

        One of the main things I got out of this was biden saying he means everything he says. Remember those words…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6U2ZHU7AJD6E7HFK4SRW3ETZNI rigged4fun@yahoo.com

    I agree with your analysis, there was no winner. However I do believe people will remember Joe Biden’s “Joker” type smile and condesending attitude. Biden didn’t offer up much in the way of material substance, but did interrupt Mr. Ryan numerous times. The question comes to mind that whether Joe had a nervous tic. I also believe that Mr. Ryan’s performance helped the Romney/Ryan continue to present a strong candidacy. Whereas Mr. Biden continued the narrative of class warfare, war on women, and medi-scare talking points.

  • Kym

    I think it’s incredibly RIGHT. I find it bizarre that a sitting VP would laugh when Libya was being discussed. People died. And they died because Joe’s boss didn’t have the common sense to make sure the embassy was protected on 9/11. Joe Biden lied. And his lie might prove harmful for his boss. 

    • Kathie Ampela

      I find it bizarre that a sitting VP would lie about not knowing the security situation in Libya…especially knowing his boss was skipping intel briefings prior to 9/11/12. The lies over Libya are so over the top it’s mind boggling. You can say what you want about the debate over who won on substance but for a sitting VP to lie and throw the CIA under the bus only to get his boss re-elected and endangering American citizens is sickening.  The murders of the U.S. Ambassador and the 3 other americans are only the tip of the iceberg…the REASON for the lies are what need scruitny…WHY are they lying?  The middle east is collapsing and they don’t want us to know before the election. The mob outside Cairo was chanting..Obama, Obama We Are Osama…does that sound like it was anger over a stupid YouTube video? I don’t have room in this short forum to lay this all out…

      • nickshaw

         That’s okay, Kath, you don’t have to lay it all out for rational people.
        They were not chanting “allahu akbar” (piss be upon him) in Cairo, as they would if they were there about a video! They were chanting what you said ’cause it was the anniversary of 9/11 and we killed their hero.
        Period!
        I would say that they only reason the Benghazi terrorists mentioned the activity in Cairo on their telephone intercept is ’cause they knew the Egyptians were celebrating 9/11. The same intercept this administration is using for their “demonstration” excuse also told of an planned Al Queda attack! But, they chose to exploit the video! Shameful and shameless at the same time!
        Apart from that, Biden lied about his votes for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He was for both!

        • Kathie Ampela

          The State Department confirms the U.S. Marines were protecting the embassy in BARBADOS on 9/11/12…HUH??? http://cnsnews.com/news/article/state-dept-confirms-marines-91112-were-protecting-us-embassy-barbados

          The embassy in BARBADOS needs more protection than BENGHAZI???

          • nickshaw

             Not only that Kath, while Benghazi was pleading for more security they were having a party at the embassy in Vienna ’cause they took delivery of a couple of Chevy Volts!
            Priorities!
            I’m convinced that Zero wants to appear so non-aggressive that only a couple of gay guys in faaaabulous outfits would please him as embassy security!

  • Chuck

    Agreed.  Well stated.  Most of my liberal friends this morning are very happy because they think Biden did a wonderful job “smacking down” Ryan.  But most non-hyper-partisans seemed to feel uncomfortable watching the debate.   Biden came off as creepy, and a bit ugly.  Nice for firing up the base, but he didn’t look much like a leader.  I suspect he did a good job of making Democratic voters happy for the night. Beyond, that, I doubt he did Obama any favors.

  • Robert John

    I think that’s incredibly bias. Biden supporters think he won and Ryan supporters the same? I think Biden done a good job of helping the public understand that Ryan was in over his head, by laughing at some of his ludicrous plans. I remember most of what each candidate talked about and being an independent I thought that showed clearly last night that Ryan would not be a good VP. A guy with the lowest amount of bipartisanship in congress talking about how he will change the country and do it with democrats. The guy just can’t stop lying! 

    • michael scruggs

      If you want to debate someone’s point of view, you don’t do it by laughing at the other’s views. You just prove yours are better or right.  Ryan COULD HAVE laughed at Bidens hair plugs, but it would have been wrong.  Bet views would have been very different if role was reversed. Bar was set so low for Biden, he was considered a winner if he didn’t stab himself in eye with pen!

      • Robert John

        I disagree, I think it’s kind of the same thing from last weeks debate.I believe Romney had nothing to lose because Obama was leading polls etc and I think Ryan would believe last night he could follow in Romney’s footsteps. However Biden is way to media smart and I think in debates laughing isn’t good however in a political debate it makes the people want to laugh along and makes the viewer question what Ryan was saying. even if it were true! Also Ryan even seemed scared and timid to talk about his pro life thoughts.

    • Patrick

       How is that biased? It’s a pure fact that in most cases of debates, those bases of the Democrat and Republican party will almost always think their guy won with the exception of last week’s President debate.

      “I think Biden done a good job of helping the public understand that Ryan was in over his head”

      I think that you have poor grammar and Biden has shown that if he loses in November, he can always join the cast of “The Lion King” on stage and play one of the hyenas. I mean he’s got the laugh down pat. Seriously, something tells me it’ll be one of those Gore sighing and G.H.W. Bush glancing at his watch type of moments that will come back to haunt him if not right away.

      One more thing, just because you claim to be an independent doesn’t mean you’re not a left leaning one or are a partisan pretending to be an independent, IINO (Independent In Name Only).

      • Robert John

        I am neither democrat or republican and yes I do lean to the left sometimes, just like I lean to the right on other times! As I mentioned about bias, I was reading Goldbergs tweets from the debate and left wondering if we were in-fact watching the same debate (that’s what I meant by bias).
        Also I don’t think the laughing bothered as many people as it bothered republicans. I honestly think that Biden came across as confident and the perfect adversary to Ryan. Ryan is a smart young man talks about certain things and Biden is an old man who’s been there and done it all before and he kept asking Ryan … “Show me how you can make those tax cuts” and Ryan just kept saying he could do it and it’s been done before. 

        • Patrick

           Oh really? Name three positions in which you lean to the right.

          • Robert John

            I don’t think there is three. I do believe in smaller government but it’s not huge on my list of priorities. But that doesn’t mean I lean to the left on everything else. The reason I call myself; an inbetweener, an on the fencer. Because I don’t let my political party get in the way of common sense (although I know you need all parties in a democracy to meet in the middle) so I can agree with Obama or Romney or anyone else on things from business to environment to welfare. So I am constantly flickering between parties because of my views. Are you telling me that your Republican everything?

          • Robert John

            Oh yes and I prefer elephants to donkeys!

          • Patrick

            I’m sorry, it’s just that there are some people who claim to be Independents but consistently vote for one party or the other over time. As for my views, I’m fiscally conservative and socially moderate (in terms of morality, my views would be closer to conservatives, but in terms of legality, they’d be a lot closer to liberals). My apologies once again.

        • http://twitter.com/tyeeCR tyeeCR

           We’re waiting……..

    • rdgeorge

      Are you seriously posting that Ryans lying was what you were focused on? In a debate with Biden? Where Biden tells an enormous whopper about Libya in the week of a congressional hearing that instantly proves Bidens lie.
      You are of course entitled to your viewpoint but I am to mine and I don;t for one second believe you are an independent.

      • ourearthlyangels

        Good points. The poster is not entitled to his FACTS, however. and it is now fact that Obama and his officials did knowingly lie about the murder of the ambassador.

  • MC

    Good analysis.  Biden is a career political hack and I thought it was funny how many times he dropped Reagan’s name and how he’s know Bibi Netanyahu for 30 years.  Give me a break. 

    • michael scruggs

      Wonder if Netanyahu goes around bragging about Biden being HIS friend for 30 years? I bet not!

  • Ksp48

    Hey thanks bigot. Here it is the middle of the month almost and I had forgotten to make my quarterly contributions to the Anti-Defamation League, Jewish United Fund and Jewish National Fund.  I will do so in your dishonor. 

  • DB

    may you be forgiven

  • Jeffreydan

     This column is about the VP debate, so let’s post comments related to that, mmmkay?
      When there is a column discussing childish anti-Semites who are out of their league, comments from an authority like yourself will certainly be welcome.  

  • VoodooSeats

    What people need to remember about our country and the right to practice what ever faith they chose should never be used as ammunition against them just because they are perceived to be mad. We all have views that we can learn from but when one puts another down because of his or her faith then the accusation, ‘angry’ jew is so out of place. Did you not know that all Christian birth came out of the ancient texts of  the hebrews. Technically we are the Hebrew decedents of Moses and long before that, Adam. All that being said we are all Americans, period. And should help each other to understand one another as we move forward in this world. Don’t call people names, that only fosters hatred , and so on, and so on.

  • 5843supie

    ataboy

  • Cbkaufman

    >>Technically we are the Hebrew decedents of Moses

    No, really, you’re not. 

    >> and long before that, Adam

    Yes, now that is correct.
    The child that you are responding to is immature and uneducated. Don’t descend to his level to respond to him, especially by going overboard.