John, Marco Rubio appears as if he's ready to have a nervous breakdown or just totally annoyed and stressed to the max. Do you believe he clashes with Stephen Miller and Sec. Hegseth over policy? I believe Marco has the most common sense of these three men.
1.Thanks for your thoughtful answer. That's a really interesting anecdote about the poster who insisted the Micheal Brown video showed him buying, not stealing, the cigarettes.
2. Not a big fan of Matt Continetti these days, but I found his recently coined phrase of "Mamdani Republicanism" to be a clever variation of what you call "Republican Socialism".
3. My actual question!😅
So unfortunately, I see that both sides continue to ramp up the rhetoric and lawfare up in the North Star State. Minnesota AG Keith Ellison called the ICE influx a "federal invasion" and is suing the federal government. The DOJ in apparent response is investigating Walz and Frey for "obstructing" ICE activities.
I get the impression most of this is just the kind of performative ridiculousness that Jonah Goldberg was decrying in the Friday G-file. Do you think any of this is actually going anywhere in the courts?
*I have seen numerous videos, and it does not make me an expert on what happened, we will need a real investigation, and from the town of George Floyd, it will be hard to get anything that will seriously consider the ICE agent may have a decent case
* The consensus will ultimately end up that the ICE actions were "awful but lawful"
*Nothing good happens when a demonstrator defies a law enforcement person, and yes, ICE is law enforcement
*I can't see any criminal action against the ICE agent getting very far, nothing so far from all the videos that creates a beyond a reasonable doubt status on the evidence
*Expecting the officer to "simply step aside" when he has a fraction of a second to figure out what is going on, is quite a stretch
* I do agree they had the necessary data to subsequently arrest her, quite easily, a point that will be stressed when this gets investigated.
Unrelated to the death of Ms. Good, but very relevant, the failure of local governments to honor ICE detainers is a disgrace.
It is most bizarre to take it, and it's not transferrable - it is a political move and an ego booster ( for our President) which will benefit her and Venezuela, but only temporarily. She'll be thrown under the bus in due time, my prediction. She's a smart cookie to get in good graces with our Government.
I’m all for de escalation, and I think that is the best solution, but as Trump considers sending the National Guard into Minneapolis, it brings to mind President Kennedy sending the Guard into Alabama and Mississippi when local / State authorities refused to enforce Federal Civil Rights Law, and, the safety of blacks was being threatened as well from bigoted violence. Governor Wallace reversed his stance as a result. How is Minneapolis any different if Governor Walz and local authorities refuse to cooperate, and in some cases, even impede, Ice enforcing Federal Immigration Law. Their safety is also being threatened. Fair comparison? Set me straight if I’m wrong.
Babbitt was part of a violent insurrection that was breaking its way through the U.S. Capitol, and was a clear, present, and escalating danger to the lawmakers and staffers inside (who were scrambling to evacuate). The physical barrier Babbitt (who was wearing a backpack) broke through, and was entering through, was the last one between her (and many other insurrectionists behind her) and members of Congress, just a few feet away, who the police officer was assigned to protect.
This wasn't some one-or-two second moment of confusion from Babbitt. It took a while for her and the others to get to where they were, and through that barricaded doorway, while repeatedly being told to stop what they were doing. And of course, no one's making the argument that Babbitt was trying to flee the scene when she was shot. She had already committed multiple crimes before even getting that far, and she wasn't about to stop.
The common element though John is both lived in their radical bubble. Perhaps their political self-righteousness made them believe they were immune to consequences.
I see a lot of parallels between Babbitt and Good. Good sat in her vehicle blocking the street for three minutes and was told to exit her car. Her actions were also not some one-or-two second moment of confusion. Both were also egged on to their behaviors by their respective political leaders.
Now that I've gratuitously answered your question above, will you answer mine: how can any critical thinker, of any persuasion, not see the real difference? I ask that with all due respect. I know you can draw similarities, but here I'm talking about the real or material difference in terms of whether the shootings were justified.
Greetings Mr. Hadley. I personally believe that BOTH shootings were justified. I have never defended Ashley Babbit. I simply wanted to hear Sir John elaborate further on his response to my original query which was to point out the hypocrisy of how partisan hacks on both sides will condemn the authorities in one instance and excuse the authorities in a different one, depending on which tribe they’re a part of. Now to answer your question about the video and the behavior and position of the ICE Agent. Allow me to have Nate The Lawyer illustrate why I feel the way I do because it will save me a lot of time typing. Take a look at the link I’ve provided to you. As always Mr. Hadley, I thank you and enjoy your contributions to spirited discussions even we likely disagree more often than not.
I saw the entire video once. There's a better argument that the Babbit killing was unjustified and even criminal than that the Good killing was justified or noncriminal.
Babbit was not immediately threatening the Capitol officer with death or serious bodily harm. She didn't have a weapon as far as we know. The officer could have first fired at the floor and up at the ceiling, even though doing that is not necessarily without risk.
I'm surprised the Capitol officers who were viscously attacked by the mobs - sometimes with weapons - on 1/6 didn't shoot the assailants. Didn't they have guns? If I was being viscously attacked like they were, I think I'd shoot. If I had time, I'd probably shoot a warning shot or two, but I'd save bullets for the mob.
As for Good, if the Officer in question , instead of drawing his gun and aiming and shooting three times, had concentrated on getting out of the way, she would be alive and he would probably be unscathed. Even after seeing the video you cited, it still looks like the officer in question was to the driver's side when Good pulled forward and that she was trying to get away.
What kind of training did the officer get? Not standing afront a vehicle in a confrontational situation is Kindergarten stuff. Dashing to safety when possible is much preferable, even from the officer's point of view, to trying to shoot the driver. The officer in question was apparently trying to prevent Good from leaving. Nate the Lawyer can call me a liar all day long if he wants.
Dear Mr. Hadley—-I must refer back to Sir John’s observation about the former poster who claimed racism and police brutality during the Michael Brown shooting. According to the poster, despite the video of Michael Brown strong arming the clerk and stealing cigars with no money being exchanged, the poster INSISTED that was such as he saw the video claiming that no such strong arm robbery occurred. We could both argue our points and say that the ICE Agent was not in front of the vehicle or he hadn’t been until Ms. Good backed up and turned the wheel and went forward. I also think it’s too easy for all of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks (myself included) to speculate on what he should have done or on what we ourselves would have done had we been in that situation, which, let’s face it—-we were not (thankfully)! Until next time, Mr. Hadley, His Utmost Excellency, The Emperor, bids you a safe & enjoyable week. On the outside chance that Mr. Adelman is reading this—- please reach out to us and let us know how you are doing. None of us have ever met—-but many of us DO care.!
You make some good points. Like I say, I'm open to persuasion, despite my strong inclinations. I hope it's litigated so that we may see the videos dissected.
You too are a good man. Why don't you join Mr. Adelman and myself?
Thank you for that shout out, Mr. Hadley. Although on a technical level I’m wondering why I’m unable to see plea to Mr. Adelman in the comments right now. You obviously saw my comment about him but as of this writing I don’t even have an option to expand my response to you, and if I am unable to see my plea then I fear that Mr. Adelman won’t be able to see it either (assuming he is still a part of this community.
To answer your question as to why I won’t join the left wing side—-perhaps if we all stick to our corners then we are further proof that __wait for it—-wait for it ——“There are Good People on BOTH SIDES!”
John: Do you read Peggy Noonan regularly in the Wall Street Journal editorial page? She wrote many of Reagan's most famous speeches and is a traditional conservative who has run afoul of the MAGA crowd. I still think she has a way with words. In last Friday's column, she analyzed that Trump and his crowd are "right but repulsive", while his Democratic opponents are "wrong but romantic." Do you agree with this analysis, and does it synthesize repulsed Trump voters like me and the attraction of crazy leftists like Mamdani who charm with a smile and a silver tongue?
"....Bill O'Reilly claims to be the only broadcaster who is now credible and impartial.."
First, what would you think if someone, every time you saw him, told you repeatedly how honest he is and how dishonest everyone else is?
I've watched Mr. O'Reilly since about 2002. He has a lot of positive points, but you MUST retain your critical thinking when watching him. It seems that in every episode he says something misleading.
"Regarding the ICE shooting of Renee Good, I agree that it’s a tragic event but, like Ashley Babbit, she had no business doing what she did, and while she didn’t “deserve” to be shot...."
That's a false equivalency Emperor. Ms. Good was trying to get away. If the officer in question had simply stepped aside - or never got in front of the vehicle - Ms. Good would have driven off and NO ONE would have been hurt or put in danger. They had her license plate #, her picture and were talking to her spouse for Christ sake! They could have arrested her later. She wasn't violent. She wasn't crazed. There's no evidence whatsoever that she was intoxicated or under the influence.
Although I'm open to further evidence, from all appearances the officer in question could have simply stepped aside from the vehicle. I've said this many times, and I'll say it again: The officer in question was in front of the car but apparently on the driver's side edge of the front. If he had time to draw his gun and shoot Ms. Good AND THEN step out of the way, then he had time to simply step out of the way WITHOUT first drawing his weapon and shooting. From all appearances, I think the officer was trying to prevent Ms. Good from leaving, and no to reasonably defend himself with not other alternative.
On the other hand, Ms. Babbit was doing pretty much the opposite. She was part of an angry, crazed and violent mob that was in the process breaking into a Congressional session and, by all appearances, would be seeking out and being violent to various or all Congressmen. After all, they had just been violent to scores of Capitol police. Many were chanting "Hang Mike Pence" with a mock hanging scaffold and "Where's Nancy."
In that case Emperor, what was the Capitol police officer to do? He had a job, to protect the building and safeguard its legitimate occupants. Maybe he should have fired his gun away from the crowd first.
As I've said many times, I'm surprised that more of the mobs on 1/6 were not shot.
Good question. It appears as though he was first walking around the car but, by the time she backed-up a bit, he was in front. Whatever the case, he apparently had the time to draw his weapon, aim and fire and only then step aside.
Trump is highly controversial, but has accomplished some amazing feats in record time. With that said, he does get credit when credit is due. NewsNation- Chris Cuomo and Leland Vittert- certainly do credit our President, but also criticize when warranted. Two good broadcasts on NewsNation.
John, regarding The Dispatch. I signed up after your comment about them being a 'go-to publication. I concede my sample size so far is small, but call me unimpressed. The publication is not without accuracy but a 'Trump is not a good person or president' syndrome appears to prevail. They may be fair but not balanced. A go-to publication should be.
As I said, they report the news impartially (The Morning Dispatch is fantastic), and their commentary is conservative and libertarian. President Trump often stands at odds with conservative, libertarian, and constitutional positions, (as well as basic standards of character and decency). The Dispatch's writers are accurate and fair, but it seems your definition of "balance" is that they should be complimentary of Trump roughly 50% of the time, which is not how I determine my "go-to" sources.
John, Marco Rubio appears as if he's ready to have a nervous breakdown or just totally annoyed and stressed to the max. Do you believe he clashes with Stephen Miller and Sec. Hegseth over policy? I believe Marco has the most common sense of these three men.
I would hate to see Rubio resign.
1.Thanks for your thoughtful answer. That's a really interesting anecdote about the poster who insisted the Micheal Brown video showed him buying, not stealing, the cigarettes.
2. Not a big fan of Matt Continetti these days, but I found his recently coined phrase of "Mamdani Republicanism" to be a clever variation of what you call "Republican Socialism".
3. My actual question!😅
So unfortunately, I see that both sides continue to ramp up the rhetoric and lawfare up in the North Star State. Minnesota AG Keith Ellison called the ICE influx a "federal invasion" and is suing the federal government. The DOJ in apparent response is investigating Walz and Frey for "obstructing" ICE activities.
I get the impression most of this is just the kind of performative ridiculousness that Jonah Goldberg was decrying in the Friday G-file. Do you think any of this is actually going anywhere in the courts?
A few thoughts on the death of Renee Good:
*I have seen numerous videos, and it does not make me an expert on what happened, we will need a real investigation, and from the town of George Floyd, it will be hard to get anything that will seriously consider the ICE agent may have a decent case
* The consensus will ultimately end up that the ICE actions were "awful but lawful"
*Nothing good happens when a demonstrator defies a law enforcement person, and yes, ICE is law enforcement
*I can't see any criminal action against the ICE agent getting very far, nothing so far from all the videos that creates a beyond a reasonable doubt status on the evidence
*Expecting the officer to "simply step aside" when he has a fraction of a second to figure out what is going on, is quite a stretch
* I do agree they had the necessary data to subsequently arrest her, quite easily, a point that will be stressed when this gets investigated.
Unrelated to the death of Ms. Good, but very relevant, the failure of local governments to honor ICE detainers is a disgrace.
Fair assessment. I largely agree.
This is a really good assessment, James. Very well written.
"But any semi-decent, honorable human being would have politely thanked her, declined the gesture, and told her she deserved it."
Spot on.
It is most bizarre to take it, and it's not transferrable - it is a political move and an ego booster ( for our President) which will benefit her and Venezuela, but only temporarily. She'll be thrown under the bus in due time, my prediction. She's a smart cookie to get in good graces with our Government.
John and Bernie,
I’m all for de escalation, and I think that is the best solution, but as Trump considers sending the National Guard into Minneapolis, it brings to mind President Kennedy sending the Guard into Alabama and Mississippi when local / State authorities refused to enforce Federal Civil Rights Law, and, the safety of blacks was being threatened as well from bigoted violence. Governor Wallace reversed his stance as a result. How is Minneapolis any different if Governor Walz and local authorities refuse to cooperate, and in some cases, even impede, Ice enforcing Federal Immigration Law. Their safety is also being threatened. Fair comparison? Set me straight if I’m wrong.
SirJohn: what are the important differences that you see between the Babbit and Good shootings?
Babbitt was part of a violent insurrection that was breaking its way through the U.S. Capitol, and was a clear, present, and escalating danger to the lawmakers and staffers inside (who were scrambling to evacuate). The physical barrier Babbitt (who was wearing a backpack) broke through, and was entering through, was the last one between her (and many other insurrectionists behind her) and members of Congress, just a few feet away, who the police officer was assigned to protect.
This wasn't some one-or-two second moment of confusion from Babbitt. It took a while for her and the others to get to where they were, and through that barricaded doorway, while repeatedly being told to stop what they were doing. And of course, no one's making the argument that Babbitt was trying to flee the scene when she was shot. She had already committed multiple crimes before even getting that far, and she wasn't about to stop.
The common element though John is both lived in their radical bubble. Perhaps their political self-righteousness made them believe they were immune to consequences.
Oh, there are many commonalities. No doubt.
I see a lot of parallels between Babbitt and Good. Good sat in her vehicle blocking the street for three minutes and was told to exit her car. Her actions were also not some one-or-two second moment of confusion. Both were also egged on to their behaviors by their respective political leaders.
Emperor, see my gratuitous answer above.
Now that I've gratuitously answered your question above, will you answer mine: how can any critical thinker, of any persuasion, not see the real difference? I ask that with all due respect. I know you can draw similarities, but here I'm talking about the real or material difference in terms of whether the shootings were justified.
Greetings Mr. Hadley. I personally believe that BOTH shootings were justified. I have never defended Ashley Babbit. I simply wanted to hear Sir John elaborate further on his response to my original query which was to point out the hypocrisy of how partisan hacks on both sides will condemn the authorities in one instance and excuse the authorities in a different one, depending on which tribe they’re a part of. Now to answer your question about the video and the behavior and position of the ICE Agent. Allow me to have Nate The Lawyer illustrate why I feel the way I do because it will save me a lot of time typing. Take a look at the link I’ve provided to you. As always Mr. Hadley, I thank you and enjoy your contributions to spirited discussions even we likely disagree more often than not.
https://youtu.be/UNHiCjwM9tg
Thanks Emperor! I do respect you.
I saw the entire video once. There's a better argument that the Babbit killing was unjustified and even criminal than that the Good killing was justified or noncriminal.
Babbit was not immediately threatening the Capitol officer with death or serious bodily harm. She didn't have a weapon as far as we know. The officer could have first fired at the floor and up at the ceiling, even though doing that is not necessarily without risk.
I'm surprised the Capitol officers who were viscously attacked by the mobs - sometimes with weapons - on 1/6 didn't shoot the assailants. Didn't they have guns? If I was being viscously attacked like they were, I think I'd shoot. If I had time, I'd probably shoot a warning shot or two, but I'd save bullets for the mob.
As for Good, if the Officer in question , instead of drawing his gun and aiming and shooting three times, had concentrated on getting out of the way, she would be alive and he would probably be unscathed. Even after seeing the video you cited, it still looks like the officer in question was to the driver's side when Good pulled forward and that she was trying to get away.
What kind of training did the officer get? Not standing afront a vehicle in a confrontational situation is Kindergarten stuff. Dashing to safety when possible is much preferable, even from the officer's point of view, to trying to shoot the driver. The officer in question was apparently trying to prevent Good from leaving. Nate the Lawyer can call me a liar all day long if he wants.
Dear Mr. Hadley—-I must refer back to Sir John’s observation about the former poster who claimed racism and police brutality during the Michael Brown shooting. According to the poster, despite the video of Michael Brown strong arming the clerk and stealing cigars with no money being exchanged, the poster INSISTED that was such as he saw the video claiming that no such strong arm robbery occurred. We could both argue our points and say that the ICE Agent was not in front of the vehicle or he hadn’t been until Ms. Good backed up and turned the wheel and went forward. I also think it’s too easy for all of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks (myself included) to speculate on what he should have done or on what we ourselves would have done had we been in that situation, which, let’s face it—-we were not (thankfully)! Until next time, Mr. Hadley, His Utmost Excellency, The Emperor, bids you a safe & enjoyable week. On the outside chance that Mr. Adelman is reading this—- please reach out to us and let us know how you are doing. None of us have ever met—-but many of us DO care.!
You make some good points. Like I say, I'm open to persuasion, despite my strong inclinations. I hope it's litigated so that we may see the videos dissected.
You too are a good man. Why don't you join Mr. Adelman and myself?
Thank you for that shout out, Mr. Hadley. Although on a technical level I’m wondering why I’m unable to see plea to Mr. Adelman in the comments right now. You obviously saw my comment about him but as of this writing I don’t even have an option to expand my response to you, and if I am unable to see my plea then I fear that Mr. Adelman won’t be able to see it either (assuming he is still a part of this community.
To answer your question as to why I won’t join the left wing side—-perhaps if we all stick to our corners then we are further proof that __wait for it—-wait for it ——“There are Good People on BOTH SIDES!”
HA!
His Utmost Excellency, The Emperor, has spoken!
Yes, I too miss and care for Mr. Adelman. He's a great Man.
John: Do you read Peggy Noonan regularly in the Wall Street Journal editorial page? She wrote many of Reagan's most famous speeches and is a traditional conservative who has run afoul of the MAGA crowd. I still think she has a way with words. In last Friday's column, she analyzed that Trump and his crowd are "right but repulsive", while his Democratic opponents are "wrong but romantic." Do you agree with this analysis, and does it synthesize repulsed Trump voters like me and the attraction of crazy leftists like Mamdani who charm with a smile and a silver tongue?
"....Bill O'Reilly claims to be the only broadcaster who is now credible and impartial.."
First, what would you think if someone, every time you saw him, told you repeatedly how honest he is and how dishonest everyone else is?
I've watched Mr. O'Reilly since about 2002. He has a lot of positive points, but you MUST retain your critical thinking when watching him. It seems that in every episode he says something misleading.
"Regarding the ICE shooting of Renee Good, I agree that it’s a tragic event but, like Ashley Babbit, she had no business doing what she did, and while she didn’t “deserve” to be shot...."
That's a false equivalency Emperor. Ms. Good was trying to get away. If the officer in question had simply stepped aside - or never got in front of the vehicle - Ms. Good would have driven off and NO ONE would have been hurt or put in danger. They had her license plate #, her picture and were talking to her spouse for Christ sake! They could have arrested her later. She wasn't violent. She wasn't crazed. There's no evidence whatsoever that she was intoxicated or under the influence.
Although I'm open to further evidence, from all appearances the officer in question could have simply stepped aside from the vehicle. I've said this many times, and I'll say it again: The officer in question was in front of the car but apparently on the driver's side edge of the front. If he had time to draw his gun and shoot Ms. Good AND THEN step out of the way, then he had time to simply step out of the way WITHOUT first drawing his weapon and shooting. From all appearances, I think the officer was trying to prevent Ms. Good from leaving, and no to reasonably defend himself with not other alternative.
On the other hand, Ms. Babbit was doing pretty much the opposite. She was part of an angry, crazed and violent mob that was in the process breaking into a Congressional session and, by all appearances, would be seeking out and being violent to various or all Congressmen. After all, they had just been violent to scores of Capitol police. Many were chanting "Hang Mike Pence" with a mock hanging scaffold and "Where's Nancy."
In that case Emperor, what was the Capitol police officer to do? He had a job, to protect the building and safeguard its legitimate occupants. Maybe he should have fired his gun away from the crowd first.
As I've said many times, I'm surprised that more of the mobs on 1/6 were not shot.
Was he walking around the front of the car or standing in front of the car?
Good question. It appears as though he was first walking around the car but, by the time she backed-up a bit, he was in front. Whatever the case, he apparently had the time to draw his weapon, aim and fire and only then step aside.
Trump is highly controversial, but has accomplished some amazing feats in record time. With that said, he does get credit when credit is due. NewsNation- Chris Cuomo and Leland Vittert- certainly do credit our President, but also criticize when warranted. Two good broadcasts on NewsNation.
John, regarding The Dispatch. I signed up after your comment about them being a 'go-to publication. I concede my sample size so far is small, but call me unimpressed. The publication is not without accuracy but a 'Trump is not a good person or president' syndrome appears to prevail. They may be fair but not balanced. A go-to publication should be.
As I said, they report the news impartially (The Morning Dispatch is fantastic), and their commentary is conservative and libertarian. President Trump often stands at odds with conservative, libertarian, and constitutional positions, (as well as basic standards of character and decency). The Dispatch's writers are accurate and fair, but it seems your definition of "balance" is that they should be complimentary of Trump roughly 50% of the time, which is not how I determine my "go-to" sources.