Do You Believe in the Devil — and a Few Other Questions

Posted: July 21, 2011 in Culture, Featured

Okay class, let’s try an experiment.  Please read these questions and send me your comments.  Trust me, I’m a professional, I know what I’m doing.  I anxiously await your responses.

 

  1. Do you still think that Barack Obama was not born in the United States?

 

  1. If so, where do you think he was born?

 

  1. Do you think the long form birth certificate released a few months ago is legitimate or do you think it’s a fraud.  If you think it’s fake, why do you think that?

 

  1. How would you characterize people who believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and that his birth certificate is 100 percent real.

 

  1. How would you characterize people who don’t believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and think his birth certificate is a fake?

 

  1. Do you think Barack Obama is a kind of Manchurian candidate?  That is, do you think he’s a front man for some devious un-American force that is calling the shots and pulling the strings?

 

  1. Bonus question:  Do you think there is a real devil who is the anti-Christ and who now lives among us?
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  • Chester A. Arthur

    Why does mentioning Joseph Newcomer make the anti-birthers so upset? Is his name taboo or something?

    • Proe Graphique

      Chester,

      Well, as my long post(s) below I believe illustrate, Joseph Newcomer threatens them, and that threat frightens them which in turn enrages them. Newcomer’s most notable success – exposing the Killian Documents which got Dan Rather fired from CBS News – is way too close for comfort considering he has declared the Obama birth certificate put forth by Obama himself as a cheap and amateurish forgery.
      Obama’s birth certificate has been declared a fake by the best in the business, thousands of professionals like me and tens of thousand of hobbyists (if you check some of the photoshop blogs, some were alive with the discussion of it); the forgery is SUCH a fake that even non-experts can see the blatant construction of the forgery, and the experts all the way to the top agree.

      The only so-called expert who is reputed to have defended it was Jean Claude Tramblay on Fox News and on his blog he said Fox deliberately misquoted him, that he’s only a teacher and he never said the birth certificate was real – and he is a Canadian Obama supporter.

      It’s a fake, Mr. Goldberg. It-is-a-fake. You have mocked the birthers from the beginning. Now it seems that if they aren’t right, at the very least it’s time to talk about Obama’s connection to an apparent felony – the forgery of the birth certificate. You have talked down enough to the “class”. Now it’s time to address the facts. Enough stalling, Sir. It’s time to put up.

      • Chester A. Arthur

        There are obviously more important things to talk about. Like, why liberals are bad and conservatives are good! Oh, and we gotta talk about media bias too! Now, there’s no media bias against the “birthers,” so that’s not worth mentioning. What’s that about charges of racism with no evidence? Nah, that doesn’t happen against the “birthers,” just the REAL Republicans! I hear Rubio may be a VP candidate! We need several articles here supporting his candidacy! Maybe while we’re at it Berny should make an article where he uses wikipedia as his source so he can insult all those “crazy conspiracy theorists.” Two birds with one stone! Berny is obviously a very brave man. After all, no one else has the stones to make fun of the “birthers” without doing research for himself! Good going Berny!

        • Proe Graphique

          Chester,

          It may just be that Bernie does not know because he hasn’t done his homework. That’s no excuse for his mockery but I don’t think he is a fundamentally bad person per se. Apparently, his big failing is that Bernie can not understand that even if Hawaii confirms the document the white house posted – they didn’t – that actual conspiracies do happen without the word “theorists” tagged on for entertainment value. I guess he has forgotten terms like “All The President’s Men”, a title fashioned when it was a little hipper to not fall on your sword for some half-assed government office’s authority when the biggest names in graphics and document analysis have staked their careers on pronouncing the forgery a fake. Bernie needs to get back into the real world. The document is a fake, and before any more mockery or declarative silence is issued from his being, he should help to discover what the original says, find out who committed the felony and put this to rest so we can move on as a country.

          Bernie is losing credibility faster than water down a drain because of this one issue. It hasn’t been put to rest and never will until we get to the bottom of this. The cat’s out of the bag: the birth certificate is a fake. As difficult and troubling as it may prove to be, Bernie is going to have to deal with this, or give up his lucrative career bashing the mainstream media, because he will have enjoined himself to their protection of Obama whether he admits it to himself or not, and that makes his credibility to judge them at absolute zero.

          Bernie,

          Let’s go, Bernie. You were going to follow up that birther post. So follow it up, man. Let’s go.

    • bob

      Newcomer stressed that he was relying on published charges that the Obama birth certificate was fraudulent, including the analysis by scanner expert Doug Vogt and by typography expert Paul Irey.

      [...]

      Newcomer told WND that health issues would not permit him to undertake the type of rigorous analysis of the Obama birth certificate that he attempted in 2004 with the Killian documents.

  • Proe Graphique

    Okay, “class”, let me correct a few things, including the otherwise astute anti-birther Mr. Goldberg, who, with respect, is hopelessly out of his depth on this issue. He may be a “professional” journalist (I assume he means journalist when he says he is a professional, since that’s his profession), but he is not a professional graphics and document expert. Period.

    This goes out also to “Dave”, who is making the rounds including his own blog doing a very nice thing, intentional or not, for a certain Mr.Woodman’s book by selling it.

    Here’s how it shakes out in a nutshell, and it will all be very distressing to anti-birthers like mr. Goldberg, so you have fair warning in advance:

    1. Probable Cause:

    Obama has spent 3 years and very large sums of money keeping his citizenship records hidden. This not only includes his birth certificate, but virtually anything else that could identify his citizenship status. This is perhaps to be expected from a guy from Hawaii who has a proven social security number form Connecticut whose political career began virtually on the lap of a domestic terrorist (Bill Ayres) who bragged about creating false identities for his past groups’ operatives by using stolen social security numbers, usually otherwise assigned to dead people.

    2. IMO “Dave” and a very enthusiastic lamestream media is embracing this anti-birther book which supposedly debunks claims of experts whose credentials leave that fellow in the dust: Joesph Newcomer says it is almost certainly a fake and this is the man who exposed the fake Killian documents that got Dan Rather ousted after 24 years at CBS News. Mara Zebest has co-authored several hardcover photoshop books that sit on the shelves of every respected professional graphics house in the English-speaking world. These are not “computer guys” like Mr. Woodman’s folksy self-assessment. These are powerfully accomplished, high-level professionals.

    I have not read Mr. Woodman’s book, but I strongly suspect he does not have an explanation for, in my mind, as a graphic professional myself and one of tens of thousands of graphics professionals who have also examined the document, one of the most glaring aspects of the forgery: the fact that part of the program commands used to create it are embedded in the layers of the forgery itself. In other words, when Adobe graphics software is used in the creation of a document, it keeps a log of the actions in each layer, such as rotate and scale, and these are import for the artist should he or she wish to duplicate a past effect or know where he went wrong. This log is extremely important. More to the point, it cannot write itself; if the software was that sloppy that non-existent logs would be created by scans, it would essentially be worthless.

    Just ask true and proven experts Newcomer and Zebest. And about one hundred thousand other graphics professionals.

    With respect, I must assume given the status of those with whom he disagrees that Mr. Woodman is of the same caliber as the forger who knew enough to do the job wrong, in the AKA-vernacular, “Jimmy Down The Hall”. I submit that those who don’t believe Zebest, Newcomer, 50-year-typography expert Paul Irey and others don’t know what they are talking about, and should perhaps stick to the expertise of their chosen professions and listen to the expert testimony of those properly-placed to give it.

    The evidence is in and damningly conclusive despite the anxious hand-wringing of those who wish the issue would go away: Obama’s birth certificate is a fake. Deal with it. Of ocurse, Obama could put this to rest by allowing a forensic examiniation of the original, since it has been his probable cause that has created such suspicion before the forgery was released, but naturally he has refused, and in the course of avoiding the issue, created a much bigger problem: who committed the felony by creating a forgery – something else that will eventually force Obama to release the original, at some point.

    Know it: That birth certificate forgery is perfectly aligned in incredulous-inducing reaction to be to Obama what Monica Lewinsky’s blue dress with Bill Clinton’s sperm on it was to that president: the evidence that cannot be explained away.

    http://www.obamafake.blogspot.com

  • Proe Graphique

    It occurs to me to be a good guest and answer your questions as asked (the larger answer is posted, below)

    1. Do you still think that Barack Obama was not born in the United States?

    Not all birthers believe that, so don’t make generalized assumptions – it’s bad journalism.

    2. If so, where do you think he was born?

    I have no idea, but it would be nice to know.

    3. Do you think the long form birth certificate released a few months ago is legitimate or do you think it’s a fraud. If you think it’s fake, why do you think that?

    I know it’s a fake because I have looked at it as a professional, determined that it is, and the best experts for whom I might otherwise turn to advice on the issue came to the same conclusion before I got the chance to ask them.

    4. How would you characterize people who believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and that his birth certificate is 100 percent real.

    Simple. I could characteristic them as mistaken. If you want to bait me into insulting them personally I won’t do it, and you should be ashamed for the seeming attempt.

    5.How would you characterize people who don’t believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and think his birth certificate is a fake?

    Accurate and correct on the second, I have no opinion on the first. Lumping the two together is awful and seemingly designed to denigrate the birther movement. IMO you should re-apply for a job at CBS News – if this is your current journalistic standard, I’m guessing that they’d be happy to take you back.

    6.Do you think Barack Obama is a kind of Manchurian candidate? That is, do you think he’s a front man for some devious un-American force that is calling the shots and pulling the strings?

    What does this have to do with a fake birth certificate? Horrible journalism at its worst, Mr. Goldberg. Stick yo your own subject, please.

    7.Bonus question: Do you think there is a real devil who is the anti-Christ and who now lives among uso you still think that Barack Obama was not born in the United States?

    I’m glad this is a bonus since it has nothing to do with the question of Obama’s birth certificate. If you are saying birthers all think that you are mistaken. Not everyone who like pastrami likes roast beef. Get with the program.

    Some of us would appreciate you asking the questions without the glaring sarcasm. When the day comes that you have the document and graphic expertise of Zebest or the cred of Newcomer whose analysis got Dan Rather ousted from CBS News, then you can be sarcastic, and they both believe it’s a fake.

    http://www.obamafake.blogspot.com

    • Chester A. Arthur

      “5.How would you characterize people who don’t believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and think his birth certificate is a fake?

      Accurate and correct on the second, I have no opinion on the first. Lumping the two together is awful and seemingly designed to denigrate the birther movement.”

      I must applaud you for this answer.

      However, I personally consider only people who say Obama was not born in Hawaii to be “birthers.” Lumping the two issues together is a tactic the left started and the right began to follow suit sometime after. Its purpose is to do exactly what you say, to “denigrate the birther movement.” It also, however, denigrates the “skeptic movement.” I can’t even question anything about Obama without being called a “birther.” I personally believe he was born in Hawaii, but that doesn’t mean his birth certificates aren’t fraudulent or that Obama hasn’t been committing crimes. And I don’t condemn and ridicule people who say he could have been born in Kenya either, it’s certainly possible.

      • Prographique

        Interesting answer. I fall somewhere midway between the two opposites you draw. I am more inclined, quite frankly, to believe that his birth certificate says he was born in Hawaii but attributes Barack’s citizenship to be the same as his British father.

        That being said, for Obama to NOT be born in Kenya suggests that his Grandmother was lying, and that Michelle Obama was speaking figuratively when she said repeatedly that Obama was “a Kenyan” and that (they) “visited Barack’s home country of Kenya” and Barack Obama was speaking figuratively when he said in Kenya, “It’s good to be home.” Also, the Prime Minister must have gotten his facts wrong when he said Obama was born there, as did the Kenyan ambassador, as did various newspapers that reported that Obama was Kenyan when he was running for state senate. All this is 100% documented in print and tape, no “mysterious conspiracy sources.” So when a guy refuses to let any see his original birth certificate, every graphics person from the very finest experts to the first year student recognize the forgery as such in 5 seconds upon examination of the white house document (I got mine right off the WH site and the document is a fake, for sure), and THEN you add up all the Kenyan references, you need to either be in serious, serious denial, positioning for some larger political objective or simply utterly out of touch with everyday reality to say “There is nothing suspicious here, let’s move on.”

        Doubtless Mr. Goldberg and O’Reilly et al have their little thin-as-a-hair explanation to get them off the hook for their mockery, but IMO they have damaged themselves professionally permanently, with at the very least a little shine off the armor. Two things happened that ensure it: Trump made the issue legit and Obama released a proven fake (don’t be cute, people, it is according to every top expert to voice an opinion on the subject). Eventually this must break and a year is too long to realistically hope to wait that Obama will be defeated and this will go quietly away. Every journalist will have to answer to the people whom they need to stay interested in them to provide their livelihood. As Glenn Beck proved when he tanked after mocking the ‘BIRTHERS”, THERE IS GOING TO BE A POUND OF CAREER FLESH – SO TO SPEAK – DEMANDED BY A VERY ANGRY ELECTORATE.

        Please learn this lesson, Mr. Goldberg, because while you are lecturing the class with rhetorical questions, the reality is you’re sitting in the corner wearing a dunce cap. This situation is bad, now.

        Cone to our website, Chester, and get involved. There are people who think Obamas born in Kenya, and others who don;t and others who fall in between, but we all know one thing: that birth certificate is an absurd fake,and that comes from the top experts, too, and that’s enough to warrant this being a cause.

        For an elected president to ruin an nation’s economy is one thing. To have one do it who isn’t legally qualified to serve is a different matter altogether, and if the birth certificate is a forgery, then a crime has been committed, so Obama is out of office before 2012 either way.

        http://www.obamafake.blogspot.com

        • Chester A. Arthur

          I, uh, may have been to your site and I might have already, uh, participated…I’ll leave it at that ;D

          As for the “birth certificate” definitely being a “fake,” I have to respectfully disagree. I believe it may very well be an “unauthentic” document, but I will not call it an obvious fake. I’m more prone to believe someone at the White House intentionally wanted to screw with people. If there was an adoption, the information that is written on both the short form and long form may be “correct,” but there still should be an amended birth certificate.

          Also, I should also mention I believe there is plenty of evidence to suggest the short form is a forgery. I mean, it was “made” in 2008 when the date stamp says 2007.

          • bob

            In that case, the 2007 date stamp controls, and folks were mistaken about a trivial event. Not everyone is perfect.

          • Pro Graphique

            I wonder where you guys get the authority to say you don’t think it’s a forgery when top experts like Newcomer whose analysis of the Killian documents got Dan Rather fired from CBS News DO say it’s a forgery? Where are you guys getting your first-person experience to make these all-knowing pronouncements? As a graphics professional I have checked Newcomer’s, Zebest’s and others findings and find them to be not 99% but 100% accurate and conclusive. And if I did not, they outrank most of us professionally, so we would look to where we went wrong, not assume that people with such unimpeachable industry credentials had put their reputations on the line for nothing. What is YOUR expertise? What do YOU know about it?

            The layers of the birth certificate contain *the operational history of the creation of the forgery embedded in them*. Do you understand what that means? It means the document is self-condemning.

            Leave expert testimony to experts, kids. You guys don’t qualify, and you don’t qualify in a big way, and neither does Mr. Goldberg.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            @bob

            The White House claimed 2008, Obama claimed 2008, and Okubo claimed 2008. Yes, they could have all been mistakes, but all three said 2008. Now, there is the possibility that either all 3 lied, or all 3 told the truth…

            @Pro

            I just don’t like using the particular word “forgery.” It implies implications that I don’t feel anyone but people who have seen the original document and then stated it was “definitely a forgery” should be making. It could very well be a forgery, I just don’t know.

            As for Newcomer, has he actually said it was a forgery? I thought he took a similar stance to some other experts and claimed something like “it has many things about it that suggest a forgery?” I don’t recall him saying it was an outright forgery, but he might have. If he has, please provide a link so I can relay Newcomer’s statement in the future.

            I don’t think we should ever take the stance any of Obama’s documents are “definitely” forgeries or “definitely” real. You can, however, state they are more than likely real or fake. I just think it’s still possible somebody from the White House screwed with the long form (which doesn’t mean the information contained in the document is “incorrect”).

          • http://www.obamafake.blogspot.com Proe Graphique

            Chester,

            In written interviews Newcomer has said it is extremely suspicious but in a roundtable audio discussion with Zebest and others, they got him to admit it’s a forgery.

            It is a fake. It must be, regardless of the original – it is a fake. Not only is the graphic evidence overwhelming, but for God’s sake, the history of the last step of the creation of the thing was left (presumably accidentally) left embedded in the layers (normally the layers are purged of their clipboard and history and flattened down, or simply re-saved after the purging). That history embedded in the layers is really the absolute killer. There is plenty to conclude a forgery easily without it, but the damn thing admits its own guilt in the layers, and the top experts agree. It’s a fake.

            I’ll have to look up the link. or better yet you go to ObamaFake and in the archives there is a post about the roundtable discussion. Click on the link and listen. It’s an hour but as fascinating an hour as you can spend.

            Mr. Goldberg, with respect, it’s time to demonstrate your journalistic integrity and deal with the facts. You have advanced your career rightfully exposing the bias on the left. If you do not address this issue on the facts – and please do your frigging homework this time, “class” – then IMO you are just as guilty of journalistic breech of ethics as they are – and then your books, with respect, aren’t worth a plug nickle. For you, my friend, it seems this is where the tire meets the highway. What will it be – journalistic integrity or journalistic integrity only when its convenient?

          • bob

            I don’t recall Okubo claiming 2008.

            Regardless, it is trivial mistake. The State of Hawaii has certified President Obama was born in Hawaii, which is sufficient legal proof of natural-born citizenship.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/13/obamas-birth-certificate/

            “Okubo said a copy of the birth certificate was requested in June 2008, but she wouldn’t specify by whom. But as we know from our attempts to get the record in April 2008, Hawaii law states that only family members can access such records.”

            Now, all three statements COULD be mistakes like you claim bob; however, it’s far from “trivial.” Why do you think Okubo wouldn’t specify who requested the “BC” for example? Why are there THREE statements claiming a 2008 date? Do you have blinders on bob? These are legitimate questions, even though they might just be “mistakes.”

      • bob

        Questioning the circumstances of President Obama’s birth (including the documents proving his Hawaiian birth and how it affects his natural-born citizenship) –questions based based not on facts but rather speculation and opinion — makes you a birther.

        • Chester A. Arthur

          @bob

          Well, you’re comment does prove one thing-
          Dave was right on about the denigration of the “birther movement.” Yes bob, I already know how you love generalizations and like many anti-birthers want to give people a label.
          You just gotta know who the “bad guys” are right?

          • bob

            A belief system based on nothing but lies is worthy of denigration.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            I’m glad we agree anti-birthers are worthy of denigration.

          • bob

            Except the “anti-birthers” beliefs aren’t based in lies, but rather obvious facts.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            Obvious facts? Lies are facts now?

          • bob

            Yes, obvious facts like President Obama was born in Hawaii, and judges, professors, and experts agree that is sufficient for natural-born citizenship.

            Where’s the lie in that?

          • Chester A. Arthur

            That’s different from what you’ve been saying all along; quote:

            “Judges, professors, and experts all agree birth within the United States is sufficient for natural-born citizenship.”
            -bob

            I see what you did here. Nice try though.

          • bob

            Judges, professors, and experts do all agree birth within the United States is sufficient for natural-born citizenship.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            That is a lie. But of course, with your liberal semantics, you’ll claim it’s not a lie. I hope you do realize though you’re not fooling anyone.

        • Proe Graphique

          Just a moment, Bob,

          “questions based based not on facts but rather speculation and opinion — makes you a birther.”

          The birther movement is based ENTIRELY on fact, not speculation: it’s based on the FACT that Obama has chosen to pro-actively hide all his records that pertain to his citizenship; the FACT that he has paid lawyers millions to keep those records from public view; the FACT that he and his wife and the prime minister of Kenya and his grandmother and the ambassador and newspapers when he was running for senate said Kenya was his “home” (it’s one thing for all the newspapers to get it wrong and that’s unlikely enough, but when that same guy’s WIFE doesn’t get it straight, please, what more do you want for God’s sake?); it’s based on the FACT that he almost certainly cannot be eligible to be president because his father was not a US citizen, and that according to the legislation that allowed McCain to run against Obama (being McCain’s eligibility was based on both parents being citizens) WHICH OBAMA HIMSELF SIGNED ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE SENATE, SO HE COULDN’T POSSIBLY BE DUMB ON THE ISSUE), and now according to every high-level expert with the street cred to make a reliable assessment, Obama released a FAKE birth certificate,a nd further, 18-year private investigator Susan daniels now has a statement from the social security administration that Obama could not possibly have been assigned the social security number he is using, and it just so happens that his terrorist pal Bill Ayres has stated that in the Weather Underground they used to use the SS numbers of the dead to establish new identities for their covert operatives; these, too, are facts.

          Learn the lessons ranging from Stalin and socialist Nazi Germany all the way down to President Clinton losing his law license forever for perjury because his young-ish illicit lover kept his dried sperm unwashed on her dress as a seemingly bizarre and obsessive keepsake: just because something is unthinkable does not make it impossible.

          Back in 2009 when far less was known, even the Huffington post blasted the anti-birthers, calling them even weirder than the birthers (leaving only those unaware of the issue unscathed).

          Obama and the lamestream media are making absolute unmitigated fools of you and Goldberg and all the other anti-birthers, including Obama’s own supporters to whom his is clearly lying blatantly now with that fake birth certificate (it is fake, once again; the experts like Newcomer who got Dan Rather fired from CBS News, agree) and you anti-birthers are wearing the clown suit Obama and his people are dressing you up in very well. The uniform fits, because you have each tailored your own to yourselves impeccably. But it’s a clown suit just the same, and you don’t appear to have the courage to glance in the mirror, instead just making the clown suit colors brighter by sheer force of will when challenged on it.

          To recap: Obama’s wife and Obama himself and Kenyan officials called Obama’s home country “Kenya”, as did newspapers. Obama is lying because he cannot be unaware of what constitutes eligibility according the congress because as a senator he signed that very resolution about McCain, and he himself does not meet the requirements of that same resolution – both parents being US citizens. He has opened up probable cause like a whirling dervish with his lawyerly actions to hide his past and the document he chose to release to supposedly prove his eligibility is an absurd and amateurish fake.

          When are you people going to come down to earth, seriously, and get with the program? Clinton was a thousand times more credible on the Lewinski scandal and it happened that the “conspiracy theorists” were right and he was lying. To turn a blind eye to this issue with all the probably cause and manifest evidence and statements is nothing less than absolutely insane. It appears you have created your own perception of reality and constructed a vast nuthouse within it as far as the eye can, and if you don’t challenge Obama on this issue and he wins in 2012, you may find yourselves living in it for the rest of your lives.

          Newcomer, Zebest, Irey, Voit – every expert, from the most modest to the most astute agree: Obama’s birth certificate is a fake. How many times do you need to be told this undeniable and increasingly more documented fact as they themselves write more and more and give more and more interviews? Please grow up and get that fact into your apparently rock-hard wooden heads before you make every fellow American look like an idiot by association.

          Chester Arthur,

          I understand. Well said.

          • bob

            The birther movement is not based on fact, but rather speculation and false conclusions:

            President Obama has not “actively” hid anything; his records are subject to the same privacy laws as any other person’s. And President Obama’s voluntary disclosure of his past is on par or exceeds that of other candidates or presidents.

            President Obama has not paid “millions” in legal fees. (Where is your evidence of these “millions”?) Candidate Obama was a defendant is exactly three lawsuits, all of which were quickly disposed of. All other eligibility suits either did not name President Obama, or President Obama was defended by the government. But if the cost of lawsuits concerns you, the solution is for birthers to stop filing frivolous lawsuits.

            That various people have made statements about Kenya being President Obama’s “homeland,” etc. is not proof of birth in Kenya. President Kennedy often referred to Ireland as his home (he also famously said he was a Berliner), yet he was born in Massachusetts. On the other hand, the State of Hawaii (through its duly appointed officials) has repeatedly and expressly stated that President Obama was born in Hawaii. The State of Hawaii has duly issued documents that would be accepted as sufficient, legal evidence in any state and in any court.

            Judges, professors, and experts all agree birth within the United States is sufficient for natural-born citizenship (regardless of the citizenship of President Obama’s father). Senate Bill 511 was non-binding, and specifically referenced only McCain and the circumstances of his birth.

            No actual expert has said that President Obama’s birth certificate(s) are fake. Rather the opinions of self-anointed (not “high-level”) “experts” are touted, but those opinions will never, ever see the inside of a courtroom.

            Susan Daniels has no idea what she is talking about. The Social Security Administration’s site plainly says that its numbers are not reliable geographic indicators, and should not be relied on as such; it never said that “could not possibly have been assigned the social security number he is using.”

          • Proe Graphique

            Keep up the propaganda, Bob. This is the same blather that has slowly eroded Obama’s media-silence protection on this issue. He fights lawsuits for his original records – the last time someone did that it was Nixon over the tapes, and as for the rest of it, IMO you’re just some angry, Obama defending voice on the internet with no qualification to speak to any of this; I feel confident that you don’t have Newcomer’s cred as the guy who brought down Dan Rather at CBS News, I assume you aren’t a well-respected top-level graphics expert and author like Zebest, a typesetting expert like Irey, a private investigator with the records only obtainable to people like a licensed investigator like Susan Daniels who has a document from the social security administration that Obama was not issued the number he’s using or countless other people who have come out against the forgery. You aren’t even in the majority of Americans anymore, as the majority has doubts about Obama’s nativity story, and the 2012 election is a long time away. So, putting it in the common vernacular: go soak your head. Obama’s birth certificate is a fake. This isn’t speculation – where he was born is speculation. The forgery is a fact.

          • bob

            President Obama has not defended a lawsuit over his original records; they have been defended by the agencies holding those records, which have asserted the totally unsurprising defense that the requester has no right to someone else’s records. And from your lack of evidence regarding President Obama spending “millions,” I conclude that claim is a lie.

            Newcomer hasn’t examined anything; he’s relying on what others are telling him. Which is hearsay, a fancy legal word for gossip. Zebest and Irey are not “well-respected top-level” experts; they’re self-anointed, and have no training or experience in questioned document analysis or digital forensics. Which is why their opinions will never, ever see the inside of a courtroom.

            Susan Daniels doesn’t know what she’s talking about. There is no evidence President Obama has ever obtained or used a social security number in a fraudulent manner.

          • Proe Graphique

            Bob,

            You are clearly defending Obama for the sake of defending him. Once again, I must correct you, and thanks for the opportunity, because the more I and others do, the more yet others still understand it.

            1. They are Obama’s lawyers, not the lawyers of those holding the records. A lie or stupid mistake.

            2.There is no hearsay in Newcomer’s analysis; he knows better than that. He examined the only long form anyone has seen publicly – the one Obama put on the white house website for all the world to see, and Newcomer says it’s a fake. Period.

            3. Mara Zebest is one of the most well-respected graphics authors and consultants in the world, you dolt; she has co-authored 12 books and edited about a hundred. She consults and trains people at Fortune 500 companies; if you know anything about the graphics business you’d realize what a pathetic and incomprehensibly stupid remark you made about her.

            4. Irey knows more about typesetting than almost anyone. And more than you.

            5. The evidence of Obama’s fake social security number is mind-blowing, smart-aleck: it begins with 042 and that is only given and only ever has been given to Connecticut residents, a place he never lived. It also cross-indexes with a guy who died 30 or 40 years ago. Coincidentally Obama’s terrorist friend Bill Ayres is on record as saying that using the social security numbers of the dead is how he used to establish false identities for Weather Underground members when he and his wife Bernadine Dorn, who is heard on tape on the CBS News in Oct of 1970 declaring war on the United States, were running it.

            You Bob, even as an Obama defender, are an epic fail. Obama’s birth certificate is a fake. Look it up and learn something for a change.

          • bob

            Candidate Obama’s personal lawyers have defended exactly three suits, all of which were quickly disposed of. All cases filed since President Obama has been inaugurated have been defended by the government. Three frivolous cases do not cost “millions” to defend.

            Newcomer never inspected anything. Cite where he said he did.

            Zebest and Irey birthers; that’s called confirmation bias in the real world. They have no training or experience in digital forensics or questioned document analysis. The only people who consider them to be experts is other birthers. Their opinions will never, ever see the inside of a courtroom.

            The Social Security Administration has expressly stated that its numbering system is not reliable geographic data, and should not be relied on for such. President Obama’s social security number does not “cross-index with a guy who died 30 or 40 years ago.” Cite your evidence that it does. There’s no evidence Ayers forged anything for President Obama, just speculation.

          • Prographique

            God you are a liar, Bob. Simply unbelievable.

            They are not trained in “digital forensics”? Do you have the slightest idea what you are talking about? IMO you’re nothing more than a low level Obama defender partisan, Bob. How much does Soros pay you? What do YOU know about these things? I’m a graphics expert professional and have been for over 25 years. I am telling you that Newcomer, Zebest and the rest are right when they say it’s fake. I am saying it’s fake, too. What to debate the technical specifics? Roll up your sleeves big mouth and let’s go at it.

            Here is a two hour audio at Obamafake where Newcomer, Zebest and others lay into the birth certificate no holds barred. You’re full of sh*t, Bob.

            http://obamafake.blogspot.com/2011/07/amazing-round-table-interview-with-many.html

          • Chester A. Arthur

            It should have been come clear by now that bob is mostly just a partisan hack. He does bring some interesting facts to the table (very little though), but he disregards any “evidence” that goes against his preconceived bias. And if things get hard for bob, he relies on liberal semantics to claim evidence isn’t “credible” or wouldn’t be “acceptable in a court of law.” bob, like many anti-birthers, use many catch 22′s just to make themselves feel good inside. They use the law when it’s convenient for them, but disregard it when it “gets in their way” or when they “want to have fun.”

          • Proe Graphique

            Chester,

            Very astute and well-stated analysis of Bob and his ilk.

  • Proe Graphique

    Okay, “class”, let me correct a few things, including the otherwise astute anti-birther Mr. Goldberg, who, with respect, is hopelessly out of his depth on this issue. He may be a “professional” journalist (I assume he means journalist when he says he is a professional, since that’s his profession), but he is not a professional graphics and document expert. Period.

    This goes out also to “Dave”, who is making the rounds including his own blog doing a very nice thing for a certain Mr.Woodman’s book by selling it.

    Here’s how it shakes out in a nutshell, and it will all be very distressing to anti-birthers like mr. Goldberg, so you have fair warning in advance:

    1. Probable Cause:

    Obama has spent 3 years and very large sums of money keeping his citizenship records hidden. This not only includes his birth certificate, but virtually anything else that could identify his citizenship status. This is perhaps to be expected from a guy from Hawaii who has a proven social security number form Connecticut whose political career began virtually on the lap of a domestic terrorist (Bill Ayres) who bragged about creating false identities for his past groups’ operatives by using stolen social security numbers, usually otherwise assigned to dead people.

    2. IMO pathetically, “Dave” and a very enthusiastic lamestream media is embracing this anti-birther book which supposedly debunks claims of experts whose credentials leave that fellow in the dust: Joesph Newcomer says it is almost certainly a fake and this is the man who exposed the fake Killian documents that got Dan Rather ousted after 24 years at CBS News. Mara Zebest has co-authored several hardcover photoshop books that sit on the shelves of every respected professional graphics house in the English-speaking world. These are not “computer guys” like Mr. Woodman’s folksy self-assessment. These are powerfully accomplished, high-level professionals.

    I have not read Mr. Woodman’s book, but I strongly suspect he does not have an explanation for, in my mind, as a graphic professional myself and one of tens of thousands of graphics professionals who have also examined the document, one of the most glaring aspects of the forgery: the fact that part of the program commands used to create it are embedded in the layers of the forgery itself. In other words, when Adobe graphics software is used in the creation of a document, it keeps a log of the actions in each layer, such as rotate and scale, and these are import for the artist should he or she wish to duplicate a past effect or know where he went wrong. This log is extremely important. More to the point, it cannot write itself; if the software was that sloppy that non-existent logs would be created by scans, it would essentially be worthless.

    Just ask true and proven experts Newcomer and Zebest. And about one hundred thousand other graphics professionals.

    With respect, I must assume given the status of those with whom he disagrees that Mr. Woodman is of the same caliber as the forger who knew enough to do the job wrong, in the AKA-vernacular, “Jimmy Down The Hall”. I submit that those who don’t believe Zebest, Newcomer, 50-year-typography expert Paul Irey and others don’t know what they are talking about, and should perhaps stick to the expertise of their chosen professions and listen to the expert testimony of those properly-placed to give it.

    The evidence is in and damningly conclusive despite the anxious hand-wringing of those who wish the issue would go away: Obama’s birth certificate is a fake. Deal with it. Of ocurse, Obama could put this to rest by allowing a forensic examiniation of the original, since it has been his probable cause that has created such suspicion before the forgery was released, but naturally he has refused, and in the course of avoiding the issue, created a much bigger problem: who committed the felony by creating a forgery – something else that will eventually force Obama to release the original, at some point.

    Know it: That birth certificate forgery is perfectly aligned in incredulous-inducing reaction to be to Obama what Monica Lewinsky’s blue dress with Bill Clinton’s sperm on it was to that president: the evidence that cannot be explained away.

    http://www.obamafake.blogspot.com

  • ◄Dave►

    Bernie, et al,

    In my initial letter to you, and frequently elsewhere hereabouts, I have asserted that the PDF of Obama’s BC posted on Apr. 27th was an “obvious forgery.” I wish to retract that. In light of data new to me, I now find my judgement to have been in error. My explanation is available here:

    http://www.thoughtsaloud.com/2011/09/01/rearranging-prejudices/

    This does not mean that the BC wasn’t copied from an inauthentic original that has somehow found its way into the HDOH vault, which Hawaii continues to go to extraordinary effort to avoid being examined by forensic experts, and it certainly does not detract from the basic definition of NBC (Born a Brit – Not Legit); but I am no longer persuaded that the PDF itself was created in a graphics program, and I will immediately stop asserting that it is an “obvious forgery.”

    Of course, it means I must now modify my knee-jerk negative opinion of politicians, candidates, and even Donald Trump, for not speaking out over such an “obvious forgery.” If the PDF is not a ‘smoking gun,’ and I now reckon it is not, we are back to debatable issues over the definition of NBC; because if there is a BC smoking gun, it is locked up in the HDOH vault, and the courts are disinclined to force them to allow anyone to see it. ◄Dave►

    • Chester A. Arthur

      It sounds like you’re starting to come around my way more and more every day ;D

      I believe Obama was born in Hawaii, but was adopted. The “birth certificate” we have been shown may have “correct” information, but not updated information. The “birth certificate” we saw should be sealed.

      If I was shown Stanley Ann Dunham’s patient records, that would close off the possibility (at least for me) that he was adopted by Dunham. However, it really does look like to me Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. We have been shown the name “Barry Soetoro” and “Soebarkah” (Literal translation: Who is this but the son of Soetoro?)

      But, I must admit, this is still all circumstantial evidence. Surely it isn’t good enough for people like bob. But, whatever. I can’t “prove” he was adopted but anti-birthers can’t prove he wasn’t. If we were able to see more of his records, I might finally be able to come to a more definite conclusion.

      Also, a little off-topic, but, where is Obama Sr. and Stanley Dunham’s marriage certificate?

      • bob

        There is no competent evidence — circumstantial or otherwise — that President Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. Your speculation is not evidence.

        Regardless, President Obama was born in Hawaii, which all judges, professors, and other experts agree is sufficient for natural-born citizenship.

        • Chester A. Arthur

          “There is no competent evidence — circumstantial or otherwise — that President Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. Your speculation is not evidence.”

          Actually, this is my circumstantial evidence:

          Barry Soetoro written on Indonesian school record-

          http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/soetoro2.jpg

          Soebarkah written on Dunham’s passport-

          http://state-of-the-nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/soebarkah-1.jpg

          I believe this is “competent” evidence.

          “Regardless, President Obama was born in Hawaii, which all judges, professors, and other experts agree is sufficient for natural-born citizenship.”

          First off, this is a lie. Second, I already stated that I believe Obama was born in Hawaii. Third, I believe Obama has been committing crimes that are impeachable. People like you and the “birthers” can argue about the “natural born citizen” debate all you like. I personally believe until the Supreme Court makes another decision one way or another, it’s pointless to argue.

          P.S.

          Opinions are not fact. Get over yourself bob.

          • bob

            “Opinions are not fact.”

            Oh, the irony.

            Neither of those documents are properly authenticated. Hence not competent.

            And neither of prove the claimed assertion. An Indonesian school record is not proof of adoption. Adoption papers are proof of adoption.

            And something *crossed-out* on a passport application is not proof of anything.

            If it is a lie to state, “President Obama was born in Hawaii, which all judges, professors, and other experts agree is sufficient for natural-born citizenship,” please specify which part is a lie, and substantiate your accusations.

            There is no evidence that President Obama has committed any crimes. Speculation is not evidence.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            I forgot to mention another piece of evidence, the divorce records. Barry Soetoro was Lolo’s son.

            How does that work?

  • Chester A. Arthur

    *Breaking*

    Obama’s aunt has an SSN issued in Indiana, a state she’s never been to.

    • bob

      More unsubstantiated rumors.

      *Breaking*: Summary judgment granted against Taitz in her D.C. FOIA SSA suit.

      • Chester A. Arthur

        Zeituni Onyango received her SS card from Indiana in 2001 according to public databases.

        Please stop with the lies bob.

        • bob

          Says who?

          • Travis

            lol bob is a prick!

    • ◄Dave►

      Hi guys. Missed you! Chesty, here is something you need to get busy on:

      http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tea-party-conservative-refutes-claims-of-obama-birth-certificate-forgery-2011-08-30

      The link to his website doesn’t resolve from here, so I can’t investigate. Maybe Bob can help. He probably knows him personally. ;-) ◄Dave►

      • bob
      • Chester A. Arthur

        I’ve been following that guy for a while now. He’s an anti-birther who poses as a skeptic so he can sell his book. This has already been discussed on birtherreport.com. He is far from a professional (which is really ironic when you consider what anti-birthers have been saying forever now).

        If you bother to watch his youtube videos, all his conclusions are basically “this and this is possible.” For him to conclude anything beyond that proves he has an agenda.

        Also, the anti-birthers have been posing as “birthers” on various sites on the internet promoting Wood’s book. People like bob here make me sick.

        • Travis

          lol bob is a prick.

          • bob

            Sorry you are so easily offended by the truth. Or reality.

          • Travis

            lol bob is a hypocritical prick.

          • bob

            Hypocritical?

          • Travis

            At least you admit your a prick.

        • ◄Dave►

          Well, this is going to shock a few of you. I just finished reading Woodman’s book, and he makes a persuasive case that none of the supposed irrefutable proofs that the long form BC is a forgery are unexplainable. Yes, he sounds like an Obot; but a rather reasonable one.

          This does not mean that the BC wasn’t copied from a forged original, and it certainly does not detract from the basic definition of NBC (Born a Brit – Not Legit), but I am no longer convinced that the PDF itself was created in a graphics program, and I will stop asserting that it is an “obvious forgery.”

          The Kindle version is $5 on Amazon, and it is worth the read, if one is not afraid of needing to rearrange one’s prejudices. :) ◄Dave►

          • bob

            There’s no evidence the original was forged. And judges, professors, and other experts all agree birth within the United States is sufficient for natural-born citizenship.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            I might go one step further. I doubt the certificate is even forged. It is, however, obviously unauthentic. It really bothers me when I hear “birthers” try to claim the “BC” is an “obvious forgery” when most of the time they’re only talking about the pdf.

            Also, I did not like Wood’s book or youtube videos because he conveniently left out some of the best evidence I’ve seen “birthers” bring up against the long form. He also used cheap computer programs and sometimes didn’t even know what he was talking about. He is far from a professional.

          • bob

            The State of Hawaii certified it. It’s authentic.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            Nice try bob. Fuddy and Onaka do not make up the entire state of Hawaii.

          • bob

            Fuddy (and her predecessor, Fukino) and Onaka are the duly appointed state officials whose job duties include certifying birth records. They literally speak for the State of Hawaii in this regard.

            Authenticated; would be accepted by any other state, and legal proof in any court.

  • Chester A. Arthur

    Obama’s uncle, Omar, was arrested for driving under the influence in Massachusetts. He is now awaiting his day in court because he is an illegal alien from Kenya. ICE has requested he be put in jail and be deported back to Kenya. Omar called white house when the cops asked him who he wanted to call. Omar’s defense attorney will be the same defense attorney who prevented Barack’s aunt from being deported.

    It has been revealed Omar has a “valid” SSN and driver’s license. How could an illegal get this documentation?

    You can’t make this stuff up.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/29/obamas-uncle-charged-with-drunken-driving/?test=latestnews

    • bob

      Someone legally in the country on a visa could obtain a social security number, and then overstay the visa. And that person would be in the country illegally with a validly obtained social security number.

      Duh.

      • Chester A. Arthur

        “Someone legally in the country on a visa could obtain a social security number”

        What’s your point? Are you trying to claim Omar was legally in the country with a visa?

        LOL.

        • bob

          What’s *your* point? That a person presently in the country illegally has a validly obtained social security number is quite possible.

  • jd

    Thanks for starting out by demeaning anyone who responds, “class”
    1. I never thought President Obama was not born in HI.
    2. na
    3. At first I was satisfied that the President posted his long form. Then I watched this video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9StxsFllY
    and his updates.
    Then I watched this video and updates:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOfYwYyS_c
    I now believe the birth certificate is fraudulent.
    4. I would characterize people who think the President was born in HI as trusting.
    I would characterize people who think the birth certificate is real as uneducated.
    5. I would characterize people who dont believe President Obama was born in HI as suspicious and exhausted from being lied to by all the news networks, ie Bill O’Reilly lying about the ssn and then scrubbing the lie off the internet.
    I would characterize people who dont believe the birth certificate is real as someone who has studied the evidence, listened to all the interviews, read the reports and has some computer knowledge.
    6. I think question 6 is condescending and meant to ridicule people. It has been the typical attack strategy of the msm since the beginning. It clearly shows how in the tank you are. Real journalism died along time ago.
    7. Screw you Bernie.

    Obviously you dont have the intellect to have an honest discussion on the issue. If Dick Durbin has his way, a future President will be an illegal alien and we can thank people like you who ask how high when your boss says jump. Or perhaps a guy like Anwar al-Awlaki who has dual allegiances at birth.

    There is a reason why the founders wanted only a NBC to be the President. Now that the masses have done the research that the media would never do, we will continue to educate those that come after us and maybe you will lose your job.

  • Say What?

    P.S. Calling every white a racist for disagreeing with a black man is GETTING PRETTY OLD! Those that have nothing intelligent to say other than “you are a racist” should just go ahead and swallow a bottle of sleeping pills and do us a favor. Really. Its obvious what the real enemy is. Shame you people are too deceived with the racism card that you cant see it.. Wake up! Bush era is gone, the 1960s is gone as well.. Stop bitchin the race card you jesse jackson hybrids !!

  • Chester A. Arthur

    This just in!

    The Department of Justice,
    The Pentagon,
    and the Associated Press,

    have been viewing the exclusive e-mail correspondence between SSGT Daryn Moran and birtherreport.com !

    • bob

      Wow. The military and the press visited a web site.

      It’s called “research.”

    • ◄Dave►

      This just in!

      That airman threw down the public challenge: “Arrest Obama or arrest me!”

      They did neither. He reports he has been give an honorable discharge and sent home.

      Curious, that…

      • bob

        Curious the armed forces separated someone unfit to serve.

        Didja like how Adams’ supervisor totally blew Adams out of the water?

  • ◄Dave►

    Well, well, well… welcome to my world. How many remember the name Tim Adams? The election clerk from Hawaii, who revealed that it is an open secret among Hawaii election officials that there is no record of Obama being born in a hospital there? It turns out he is bent libertarian, is as cynical of the system as I am, is an English major working on his Masters, and his initial revelation was made during an undercover experiment in ‘gonzo journalism,’ to investigate what he considered to be a racist organization. LMAO :)

    Here is his Master’s theses, which I reckon is a must read for anyone seriously interested in this controversy:

    Adams, Timothy Lee, “Discourse and Conflict: The President Barak H. Obama Birth Certificate Controversy and the New Media” (2011). Masters Theses & Specialist Projects. Paper 1071.
    http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/theses/1071

    Follow the link, and one will find a PDF of his thesis, which I awarded a grade of A+, for both style and content. What follows here, is the beginning and conclusion. The 88 (double spaced) pages in between, is a delightful read that is bound to give (deserved) heartburn to diehard partisans on both sides of this controversy.

    *Special note to Obots: I don’t expect you to admit it here; but if you can read this without asking yourself what the hell you are doing, or at least if your karma should be absorbing what you do to innocent people for your cause, you need professional help. Seriously.

    =====

    ABSTRACT OF THESIS
     
    A creative exploration of the consequences of public speech in the era of freely accessible, social media, as the author, a former elections official, records and explores the consequences of public dissent in the case of President Barack Obama’s eligibility controversy. This non-fiction narrative culminates with the author’s analysis and observations on both his personal experiences and the state of public speech and political power in contemporary America.

    INTRODUCTION
     
    This thesis is definitely the product of serendipity. I originally didn’t wish to write about this subject now, it is too close to the actual events, and that has made the analysisinnocent and synthesis difficult. Encouraged by Dr. Dale Rigby, the creative nonfiction professor at WKU, I determined to tackle this timely and controversial subject.
     
    This work is both a personal narrative and a study of the events and forces surrounding the people, prejudices, and acts described within. What initially began as an investigation into a political group on the extremist right, became a first-person account of the conflicts surrounding speech and public discourse, and the barriers to and consequences for unpopular speech. When a question is particularly unpopular, attacking the questioner’s motives in an attempt to discredit him becomes a means to prevent having to answer the question in the first place. I was someone who happened to be at the convergence of a heavily charged political question. My answer to that question led to all sorts of attacks on both my motives and my character, but as I will show, my answer was not really attacked for its content, but for the implications others attempted to attach to it.

    …
     
    When I started this story, I told you the controversy surrounding President Barack
    Obama’s birth certificate had nothing to do with Mr. Obama. It has everything to with the
    real divisions in the American body politic, the F.B.A.L., the Media Shell Game,
    Corporate Citizenship, and the One-Sided Win. Please consider my closing words;
    President Obama is not the problem, after all, he doesn’t even run the country.

    And neither my friends do we.
     
    Feeling suckered yet?

    =====

    I have been there for years, Tim. Welcome to my world. ◄Dave►

    • bob

      What is more shocking: Adams’s whoppers, or that this is considered university-level writing.

    • Slartibartfast

      So now you’re touting this fallacious POS from a known liar with ties to racists? You know, the length to which birthers will go to misunderstand law, make up or lie about facts and misrepresent the Constitution in order to serve their irrational hate for President Obama is truly contemptible. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

      • ◄Dave►

        Your ignorance would be amusing if it weren’t so tragic. I suppose I shouldn’t expect any of you Kool-Aid quaffers to actually read his thesis; because it might cause you to have to rearrange your prejudices. Had you read it, you would know that he is anything but a racist or even a partisan, and he was attending that conference as an undercover reporter with the intention of discrediting them.

        However, just because he is not a white racist, doesn’t make him an apologist for black racists and Chicago style thuggery. He appears to be one of those rare individuals, who is unafraid to speak truth to power, no matter whose ox is gored. If you read his thesis, you would find that he has far more negative things to say about the Right, Bush, et al, than the Left. He just happens to have been a supervisor in the elections department in Hawaii during the 2008 election, knows what everyone else in the Hawaii bureaucracy (including the governor) knows, regarding the lack of documentation there backing up the lies in Obama’s nativity fable, and is singularly unafraid to publicly say so.

        It sure would be refreshing if you Obots would arrange a news conferences, for his supervisors in that department to actually refute his assertions, as to what they told him was common knowledge; or for the hospital to actually publicly claim he was in fact born in their facility, rather than just blindly attacking his character with lame guilt by association ploys. Of course you can’t, because they won’t lie for you. Shame on you. ◄Dave►

        • bob

          I checked with Glen Takahashi, the administrator of the Honolulu City Clerk’s office, and while he verified that Adams worked there, he explained – gently making it clear he did not want to “call anyone a liar” — that Adams never actually had access to information about Barack Obama.

          “Our office does not have access to birth records,” Takahashi said. “That’s handled by the state of Hawaii Department of Health. Where he’s getting that, I don’t know. Put it this way: Barack Obama was not trying to register to vote in Hawaii. He is, as far as I know, not a registered voter here. So no one was looking that up.”

          Takahashi explained that the “senior elections clerk” job that Adams held was a low-level data entry position dealing with voter registration and absentee ballots — Adams was one of dozens of temporary employees who staffed the pre-election rush. And he contradicted Adams’s claims that Obama’s lack of a birth certificate was an “open secret” or that voters contacted the office to ask about it.

          “To be honest, I fielded no questions about that,” Takahashi said. “Why would anyone ask us? We don’t have those records.”

          http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/06/there_are_some_people_who.html

          • ◄Dave►

            Hmmm… does that meet your exacting standards for ‘evidence,’ Bob? Adams never claimed to have access to the actual records in the HDOH, only every database available to a government entity to investigate identity fraud. Their office would have had the chops and contacts at the two hospitals, to ask for verification of their birth records. They certainly would have been authorized to inquire of the HDOH what records they might have regarding a potentially suspicious identity requesting an absentee ballot.

            Adams never claimed to have done this himself regarding Obama, only that he was told by his supervisors that it had been thoroughly checked out, that no records of the birth of Obama in a Hawaii hospital existed, and that this was common knowledge among the bureaucracy. Remember, this was during the spring and summer of ’08, long before the Right latched onto the ‘birther’ movement. It was Hilary’s ‘PUMA’ opposition researchers, who were exposing his phony nativity story all over the blogosphere at that time. She had a lot of supporters in Hawaii.

            It stretches credulity to suggest that among 50+ bureaucrats equipped with their tools and personal contacts, whose very job was to verify identities of Hawaiians all day, none would allow their curiosity to compel them to check for themselves whether the rumors from Hilary’s campaign were true. Having done so, the negative results would have spread rapidly in gossip among them; but since it arguably was wrong to have done so, none would be too anxious to go on the record publicly with the information.

            Now, what would one expect the referenced administrator to say, to a reporter making the inquiry you cite? It looks to me like he handled it just right, from his perspective. He does not accuse Adams of lying, speaks of the limitations of the official capacity of his department, notes that Obama is not a registered voter in Hawaii, and says he personally never fielded an inquiry on the matter. All undoubtedly true; but if he were asked what he personally knew of the gossip in his department, completely unresponsive.

            Evidence? Would you put him on the stand, Bob? Or, might his testimony be a bit risky under cross examination? Good grief, Bob, the Governor himself had to admit that no BC existed in their records, only a ‘notation’ of some sort. Had he been born in a hospital there, a valid BC would exist and the Governor, of all people, would have been able to view it. If somebody just registered his birth to a Hawaii resident parent, as having taken place off island or at home without an attending physician, which was perfectly legal and customary at the time, one might fairly call that record a “notation in the records,” from which a COLB could be issued, but not a BC.

            This was the conjecture from the beginning, and now that Obama has published a provably fraudulent BC, it is even more so. One must assume that if a real BC actually existed, he wouldn’t have needed to forge one. Since a lawyer was dispatched for the charade anyway, she could have just as easily popped into HDOH and picked up a copy of the real thing, if one existed. Do you ever experience the slightest doubt, Bob? Or are you totally besotted with the Kool-Aid? ◄Dave►

          • Slartibartfast

            Sorry Dave, but Mr. Takahashi said that they didn’t have access to the databases that Tim Adams said they did and NO ONE could contact hospitals or the DoH and obtain information about personal records – you’re an idiot if you think otherwise. And, assuming Mr. Adams isn’t a racist, he’s still a known liar with no credibility and no testimony which could be admitted in court. Tout his thesis all you want – the more crazy birther ravings there are, the more likely President Obama wins a second term…

          • bob

            Adams never said he checked the election databases, only that other people had. And Adams has yet to name anyone who actually did such checking.

            What Adams is saying his hearsay, which is a fancy legal word for gossip. And other than Adams, there’s no indication anyone in the election department did this alleged snooping.

  • Chester A. Arthur

    -Air Force Staff Sergeant Refusing Orders Until Obama’s Eligibility Dealt With-

    “Basically, I’d rather follow Mr. Lakin, the ex-Army officer who went to Ft. Leavenworth, into war against our real enemies.

    My family is in turmoil because I cannot change my heart to support Obama, or protect his criminality. I love America and the Constitution and stand against B. Obama. He should be arrested.

    I will not be going to work Monday morning at Landstuhl. They haven’t even called my house yet, but they will come for me soon.”

    Daryn J. Moran

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/08/air-force-staff-sergeant-refusing.html

    • bob

      Deserters: Birther heroes.

      • Slartibartfast

        Don’t forget that they selfishly put their own moral cowardice ahead of the welfare of their fellow soldiers.

        It seems very appropriate that a movement full of irrational hatriot bigots trying to usurp Constitutional rule chooses as its poster children selfish cowards who fail to live up to their word.

        • ◄Dave►

          “Live up to their word?” That is rich. How many of his solemn campaign promises has your Obamessiah reneged on? If he had lived up to at least a few of his words, perhaps his approval rating wouldn’t now be in the 30s, and so many Americans wouldn’t suddenly be interested in his lack of NBC status, as a potential way to expedite getting rid of the clown. ◄Dave►

  • ◄Dave►

    The credulous and/or mercenary so-called Obots, who take turns monitoring this forum 24/7, trying to defend their client with lawyerly obfuscation, try to dismiss the mountain of evidence condemning Obama as a total fraud as being inadmissible in court. One, calling himself “bob,” is so brainwashed in his myopic authoritarian and academic worldview, that he would deny us even the use of the word ‘evidence,’ unless referring to something that he would regard as irrefutable proof of an assertion in court. To him, it doesn’t matter how many years of real world experience one may have in a field of endeavor, unless one has a stack of credentials and academic honorifics behind one’s name, and is recognized by his vaunted ‘authorities’ as competent to testify as an ‘expert’ witness in a court of law, one’s opinions are of no consequence, and may be dismissed out of hand as undoubtedly partisan lies.

    I think it is safe to say that after three years, and dozens of attempts dismissed on procedural grounds, at all levels of our judicial system, the merits of the question of Obama’s ineligibility on the grounds that he is not a NBC, will never be addressed in a court of law. Out of fear and/or partisan bias, our judges have refused to honor their oaths to support and defend our Constitution, declaring it a political issue rather than a legal one. Yet, out of fear and/or partisan bias, our politicians likewise refuse to honor their own oaths to defend our Constitution.

    This leaves the onus on us, we the people (WTP), to do everything in our power to discredit this fraudulent, anti-American, usurper, who calls himself Barack Hussein Obama, as the utterly corrupt, phony, lying, bastard that he is. Given the reported fear those whom WTP have hired to defend our Constitution have, of the riots it would cause among what Attorney General Eric Holder calls “my people,” we may never see him deservedly frog-marched to prison for his crime spree. For the sake of the future,
    WTP cannot allow that to stop us from continuing to discredit his legitimacy in every way possible.

    As embarrassing as it is, it is important for our posterity that history records what fools we were, for ever allowing this affirmative-action wannabe to usurp the office to begin with, so that such a mistake never happens again. The more evidence WTP amass for historians to review, the more likely that this sorry episode in our history is not forgotten, and the phony little con man gets the legacy he so richly deserves. Let’s redouble our efforts and not shirk our own duty, by refusing to pay Obama the slightest respect one might normally afford one seated in our Oval Office, and continuing to inform our fellow citizens of just how phony he is.

    The beauty is that we do not need lawyers, judges, or politicians for this task, and feckless lawyerly obfuscation cannot stop us from doing so. To hell with case law, precedents, and restrictive rules of evidence; they are utterly meaningless in the court of public opinion. WTP already have all the circumstantial evidence needed, to declare loudly and publicly to the entire world, that this usurper is a total fraud and consummate lier, who cannot be trusted, does not have our confidence, does not speak for us, does not act in our behalf, and we refuse to even acknowledge him as our President.

    All of the evidence dug up so far regarding his phony nativity narrative, is fascinating and will be useful to historians. The obviously forged BCs have been very useful in finally getting some citizens to pay attention to what others have been trying to say, as they bravely withstood the charges of racist and conspiracy nuts to do so. Yet, the effort to fit the pieces into a preconceived theory of where he was actually born, working from assumptions gleaned from his own phony memoir, “Dreams From My Father,” have caused the so-called ‘Birther’ movement to make tactical errors, easily exploited by the Obots and their fellow propagandists, to discredit anyone even remotely associated with their efforts.

    Using my own experience as a guide, since I was never much concerned with the place of his birth (because I knew anyone born a subject of the British Empire could not be a NBC, by definition), the conjectured solo trip by a pregnant teenaged girl to Africa, leaving her husband in Hawaii, simply defied common sense to me. I assumed he was hiding his BC to avoid embarrassment for some other reason, which he probably could be forgiven his vanity for. I could even understand his trying to skate on the definition of NBC, and blamed the media and white-guilt impaired politicians on both sides for allowing him to do so.

    Not so, the discovery that his memoir (upon which his entire reputation as a brilliant intellectual was based, because he arrogantly claims to have written it by himself, without the assistance of a ghost writer), is almost entirely a fable written by his good friend, the unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers (who he also claims was just a casual acquaintance living in his neighborhood). Combined with the the revelations that his mother never lived with Obama Sr. as husband and wife, etc. caused me to find this deliberate premeditated deceit, to be an outrageous and unforgivable fraud on our political process.

    It has been my experience, that folks without much interest in the BC issues, get very interested when informed of the actual pedigree of Obama’s memoir, and exhibit total disgust when convinced of it. Thus, I would suggest that those wishing to actually influence other’s opinion of the resident Prevaricator in Chief, start with that factoid, before trying to convince them of the more debatable BC issues. As I have demonstrated, the only defense the Obots have to the evidence Jack Cashill has amassed in his book, “Deconstructing Obama: The Life, Loves, and Letters of America’s First Postmodern President,” is to sputter at the audacity of it, call the author names and paint him with the same “conspiracy nutter” brush.

    Those charges are easily dismissed with the video of a delightful talk he gave, recorded by C-Span at:

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Decons

    …where he comes across as a very likable, scholarly, professorial type, who has written several books, and ghost written others. He explains how he stumbled upon the project, buying a copy of Dreams in an airport, and noticed upon reading it that most of it had been written in an unusual postmodern style, with quite some skill; yet other sections were more pedestrian. It was obvious to him that more than one person worked on the book, because of this pronounced change in voice.

    He was thus surprised to learn that Obama claimed to be the sole author, and went looking for other examples of his writings. What little he found published, was so pitiful in its sentence structure, grammar, and punctuation that a grade schooler could have done better. He knew then that Obama could not have written it, but had no idea who had, and penned articles for The American Thinker and WND back in 2007 explaining why not.

    Then, in a fluke, for a completely separate project, he read Bill Ayers book, “Fugitive Days,” and found the mystery ghost writer. The similarities in the postmodern writing style, with very unique sentence structure, were unmistakable, and the prolific use of maritime terms and metaphors in both, were a dead giveaway (Ayers was once a merchant seaman – Obama has no such background that might prompt him to use maritime laced language, much less obscure words like bilge and ballast).

    As I have often said, it is impossible for anyone to read Cashill’s book, with a fair and open mind, and then honestly say they did not themselves conclude that the real author was, in fact, Bill Ayers. I recommend it highly. Most, in fact, will be persuaded by the logic and details revealed by Cashill, in the above video alone. Enjoy it, pass it on to your acquaintances, keep up the good fight to discredit this fraud, and take note of all the politicians, who neglected their oath to our Constitution during the next election, if the wannabe dictator ever again allows us to have one. ◄Dave►

    • bob

      You hate President Obama so much you will gladly toss the Constitution and rule of law, while citing a bunch of lies, to justify your desire to remove of the duly elected president of the United States.

      • ◄Dave►

        Hate is such a mild term, Bob. My enmity for your phony Obamessiah is unbounded. I detest and loath this miscreant Chicago street thug, who has conned his way into the White House, by inveigling naive sheeple like you into voting for amorphous hope and undefined change. But, what you miss, is that it isn’t just who he is or isn’t, but what he is doing to our country that has awakened and animated we Liberty loving Patriots. We utterly reject your Progressive vision of utopia, which you think this wannabe tyrant is ushering in. Not on our watch, Bobby.

        There is no such thing as the rule of law. If there was, the Justice Department, headed by inveterate racist “my people” Eric Holder, couldn’t choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore, now could he? Even plea bargains, the prime lubricant of our lawyerly criminal justice system, subvert the rule of law. It has become the rule of lawyers, who make these arbitrary decisions not to enforce the laws as written and intended, by the legislative representatives of we the people (WTP).

        Your Progressive forefathers destroyed our Constitution over a hundred years ago. If it were ever to become the law of the land again, DC would become a ghost town. 95% of the activities of the Federal government, which you “living document” proponents have deliberately misinterpreted the Commerce Clause to achieve, would have to be shut down. And, of course, that miserable, ever-lying, low-life, SOB you fools call “The One,” wouldn’t be jet setting all over the world, with an entourage of sycophants like a rap star, apologizing for America’s successful and exceptional culture, and bowing servilely to Muslim potentates. ◄Dave►

        • bob

          And yet: President Obama is the duly elected president. Enjoy!

  • Chester A. Arthur

    Let’s all take a look back at the media’s slobbering love affair with Barack Obama:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-3CnQdi6MM

    • bob

      Three videos in five days? Someone surely has a mancrush on President Obama.

      • ◄Dave►

        Larry Sinclair?

        • bob

          There’s a line, apparently!

      • Chester A. Arthur

        An Obot/Fogbower named bob?

        • bob

          Sorry; made zero youtube videos this week.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            Who said I was talking about you?
            Thanks for the confession though.

          • bob

            I confess: Unlike Polland, I didn’t make three videos about President Obama this week.

        • ◄Dave►

          Bob becomes totally disarmed when one posts something he can’t lawyer; but when he is on duty, he thinks he needs to offer something, so he goes straight to the ad hominem. Pretty lame, really. ◄Dave►

          • bob

            It’s ad hominem to note that Polland is a weeeeee bit obsessed?

          • Chester A. Arthur

            “It’s ad hominem to note that Polland is a weeeeee bit obsessed?”

            LOL. Ain’t this the pot calling the kettle black?

          • Obama4Life

            what makes you think the kettle was black? your such a racist.

          • bob

            Hahahahaha!

          • Say What?

            Wow ! Really Obama4Life? An old saying reffering to a black kettle offended you? You are pathetic and weak my friend!!! I guess kettle manufactures are racist because they made kettles black. Poor poor black you !! Guess you get offended when you play pool too , How that white ball knocks all the color balls in. Guess that man was a racist when he came up with the game. Grow up you weak minded child..

    • ◄Dave►

      That is an excellent collage; but I would recommend that the good doc dwell a bit longer on his captions before jumping to the next segment to let them sink in for impact. These were at least short. Some of his earlier offerings went by so fast, I couldn’t even read all of the longer passages before they went away, and I am not exactly a slow reader. ◄Dave►

  • ◄Dave►

    Alan Keyes does have a way with words, doesn’t he?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-uYbF_2RQ&sns=em

    :) ◄Dave►

    • bob

      Do you think Keyes will receive more than 0.04% of the popular vote in 2012? Maybe double his results, and get up to 0.08%?

      • Jesse Jackson

        You are a racist!

        • bob

          For noting Keyes’s abysmal results at the polls?

          • Jesse Jackson

            You attack this honorable man simply because of the color of his skin! You ma’am are a racist!

        • ◄Dave►

          Good point! Normally Bob is over the moon for people with lots of credentials and honorifics by their names. It could only be racism motivating him to gratuitously expound on the poor man’s failures. Shame on you, Bob. ;)

          • bob

            Harvard called, and wants Corsi’s Ph.D. back.

            Happy?

          • Jesse Jackson

            This woman bob is a racist! She tries to divert the issue with her liberal tactics, but the truth has already been made known! Preach it Brother Dave! HaLlElUiAh!

  • Obama4Life

    The only reason Bernie keeps this open is to show these racist conservatives for what they really are. If you bigots dont believe Obama should be president go live in a other country.

    • JR Jordan

      Obama4life,

      I highly resent your hateful remarks. Just because some of us believe that Barry is a complete and utter fraud, doesn’t mean we are racists. I take those comments very personally and people like you need to go jump off a cliff. Even if he was born here, there’s still plenty of reasons not to like this guy or his policies. I believe he is the most devisive president in history and his complete and utter incompetence is are reasons enough alone to complain about. You and your ilk should stop using race as a pathetic, sorry excuse for this mans incompetence, and very, very questionable past.

      • Obama4Life

        There is nothing questionable about our presidents past. You crazy crackers just don’t get it. If he did something wrong, the media would have been all over it!

        • JR Jordan

          The media? Really? What world to you live in? Are you sure your from this planet?

          • bob

            Oh, the irony.

          • Obama4Life

            Why dont u ask Bernie. He sure dont give a flip bout all you crackers and this slander. just a nother case of the white man tryin to bring a brother down! He becomes president, and yous ask him for his papers! shame on all of u!@

          • JR Jordan

            Read my posts, I have been asking Bernie why he won’t go after Obamer. Look, I’m not going to sit here and argue with an obvious racists, clown such as yourself. You can take your racism BS and shove where the sun don’t shine.

          • Obama4Life

            Read Bernies posts. oh, thats right he hasnt written anything. he thinks people like you need to be put in a mental institution and rightfully so.

        • Rod

          joke

  • Obama4Life

    You birfers need to stop with the slander. No court is going to listen to you, so shutuop and accept a black man is your president.

    • JR Jordan

      I wouldv’e gladly voted for Alan Keyes if he got the nomination. It isn’t about race, moron. It’s about policy and where the person stands on the issues. Am I suppossed to go from not believing in abortion, to thinking it’s ok, just because some idiot named Barack Obama, whom just happens to be black, is on the ticket? Yeah, murdering unborn babies is all the sudden ok, just because we have an African American running for president. Your an idiot.

      • Obama4Life

        our president has done nothing wrong. He gave out his birth cert and all the crackers tried sayin it wasn’t real. u guys are jus tryin ta bring a brother down. no one asked for bushs papers cuz he wasnt black!

        • ◄Dave►

          Your president has done nothing right. Speak for yourself; Obama is not my President. Since you suggest that you are black, may I ask a question? What is your affinity for a man who, circumstantial evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, denies that he has a drop of ex-slave blood? When it was fashionable among American blacks to adopt a Muslim name in the ’70s, he already had one; but it was Indonesian and didn’t sound cool enough for the street.

          So, he chose to claim roots in a stronger tribe than those who allowed themselves to be captured as slaves and sold to white slave traders. Now, he hobnobs with the blue bloods in Europe, bragging about his common ancestry with them through his white mama’s family tree, and downplays his African roots, except when campaigning in the ‘hood. Why are you taken in by this arrogant fool, who only claims to be your brother for your vote? What exactly has he done to improve your life since taking office, unless you are one of the fat cats in his circle? ◄Dave►

          • Obama4Life

            obama has this countries best interests at hart. all those lousy conservatives are racist and are the real ones ruining this country. What other president was asked to show his papers?

          • bob

            Not your president? So you are a foreigner trying to remove the duly elected American president. Say hi to Kim Jong-il!

          • ◄Dave►

            Unlike your Obamessiah, Bob, I can document my status as a NBC of America. That does not mean that I live in your authoritarian worldview. As a sovereign citizen, sworn to support and defend our Constitution, I suffer not the slightest requirement to regard the usurper occupying the White House with anything other than profound contempt. As I said, the despicable bastard may be your President, but he sure as hell isn’t mine. ◄Dave►

          • bob

            President Obama was born in Hawaii, which is in the United States, and birth within the United States is sufficient for natural-born citizenship.

            I have no doubt you are a “NBC of America.” South America. Viva Chavez!

          • Slartibartfast

            Dave,

            Since you hate America, her lawful president, and her Constitution so much, why don’t you just leave? And take all of your hatriot birther friends with you when you do…

          • Slartibartfast

            Dave,

            How does it make you feel that you and all the other birthers are incompetent and completely impotent to stop the biggest crime in history or you are the biggest fools ever?

        • ◄Dave►

          As Bob loves to say,

          Oh the irony…

          I suspect you are only pretending to be black, but I just listened to an interview of Dr. Keyes, where he not only makes the same point I did, regarding Obama’s lack of common heritage with Americans of African descent, he says Obama’s Muslimized African tribe is notorious as one of the tribes who got rich off the slave trade! You gotta listen to this:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Im9jFEGgQ

          Priceless! ;) ◄Dave►

          • Slartibartfast

            It might not have occurred to you that President Obama has a common heritage with ALL African-Americans, his shared heritage just doesn’t include slavery. My guess is that someone with a proud black heritage that was never touched by slavery scares you and your birther friends…

        • Say What?

          You said it best with your first five words Obama4Life.. “our president has done nothing”… You are absolutely correct.

        • Aunt Jane

          You gotta be kidding me! What birth certificate? The one on the White House web page? Take a second look. download a trial copy of Adobe Illustrator and open that piece of s**t document. It’s not even a good forgery. It has been put together from a number of different sources. It is in pieces! I’d explain the typographical problems but I think it would be beyond your intelligence level to understand! If you will believe what you just said you are beyond hope!

  • Chester A. Arthur

    Sarah Obama said Obama was born in Kenya according to a 2009 internal NSIS report:

    “In a second interview done much later, she says that she is sure Barack Obama was born in Mombasa because she was visiting her family there when he was born, and they were called to the CPGH (Coast Provincial General Hospital) where she met Barack Obama’s mother for the first time.”

    http://www.wnd.com/files/110524nsisbulletin3.pdf

    • bob

      In the very next paragraph, she contradicts herself.

      And this alleged statement is hearsay in a document of unknown provenance.

      Compelling stuff.

      • Chester A. Arthur

        “In the very next paragraph, she contradicts herself.”

        Yes, after turning hostile.

        “And this alleged statement is hearsay in a document of unknown provenance.”

        You’re a liar bob. This document is from a 2009 NSIS report. The original story can be found here:

        http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=303053

        Bonus:

        Anti-birthers from your “organization” have confirmed the legitimacy of the documents (through e-mail correspondence). Are you going to say they’re liars too? I mean, I would agree with you that they are liars in the general sense of the word.

        • bob

          Regardless of Sarah Obama’s mood, she contradicted herself. And she had previously stated President Obama was born in Hawaii. She is readily impeached by her inconsistency.

          No; WND *claims* they are from a 2009 NSIS report. Where did WND get them? Has the Kenyan government acknowledged them as genuine?

          I have no idea who you think confirmed the legitimacy of the documents.

          And still hearsay.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            “No; WND *claims* they are from a 2009 NSIS report. Where did WND get them? Has the Kenyan government acknowledged them as genuine?”

            bob, you sound like one of those “conspiracy nuts” you like to make fun of.

            “Has the Kenyan government acknowledged them as genuine?”

            Yes, they have. And you more than likely already know this.

          • bob

            In the real world, WND is not considered a credible source. Again: Where did WND get these documents?

            Regardless, these documents will never see the inside of a courtroom until they are certified by the Kenyan government.

            There is no evidence that the Kenyan government has acknowledged these documents, your attempts at mindreading notwithstanding. If you have such evidence, please bring it forward.

            And still hearsay.

          • Chester A. Arthur

            “In the real world”

            Please, explain to the class what the “fake world” is.

            “Again: Where did WND get these documents?”

            Kenya, the same place “birthers” claim Obama was born.

            “Regardless, these documents will never see the inside of a courtroom until they are certified by the Kenyan government.”

            Inside a courtroom? I could care less.

            “There is no evidence that the Kenyan government has acknowledged these documents, your attempts at mindreading notwithstanding. If you have such evidence, please bring it forward.”

            Like I said, members of your “organization” confirmed the NSIS made the report. No “mindreading” required.

            “And still hearsay.”

            Well, I’m sorry I wasn’t personally there when she said it. Shame on me.

          • bob

            The fake world is where people make funny accusations, like the State of Hawaii (or President Obama) forges birth certificates.

            HOW did WND obtain these documents? WHO in Kenya allegedly gave these documents to WND? Basic questions.

            Again: I have NO IDEA who in what organization confirmed by what means the provenance of these documents.

            You weren’t there; you don’t know if Sarah Obama made these statements at all. But if WND tells you it obtained some documents from some unknown source that claimed to have interviewed her….

          • Chester A. Arthur

            …then people like you will claim WND just made up their own documents or will find any way possible to discredit a real organization or individual? Yes, I agree bob. People like you are delusional.

            P.S.

            Please have a nice, long chat with Frank Arduini. You seem to be out of the loop on some things.

          • bob

            From your evasiveness I conclude you have no idea where WND obtained these documents. Yet I am somehow delusional for asking a basic question, i.e., what is the provenance of these documents.

          • bob

            And Frank said he never confirmed the provenance of these documents.

  • Alice Leuchte

    gorefan – didn’t have the option to reply to your comment.

    I find it strange you bring Reagan up as a defense for Obama as you have no idea what my position is on his policies. You must be a betting man, lol.

    Simply based on Obama’s performance (primarily measured by results), it is clear he is not pro-business and does not act in the interest of economic growth within a capitalist system.

    Reagan, on the other hand, reaped positive results for our economy.

    Intention and purpose are apparent in the results. Given this perspective, Reagan was definitely not a Marxist. Obama is.

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