Why Liberals Like Soccer More than Conservatives

Soccer

I’ve always been a big sports fan, which explains why I have absolutely no interest in soccer. The fact is, I’d rather watch my accountant get his toenails clipped than take in a soccer game — and that includes the World Cup final, which I’m sure will be as scintillating as any other soccer game.

In soccer, they spend hours frantically trying to score. That’s not sport. That’s a young guy trying to convince his date that he likes her for her personality. If you could bottle soccer, you’d have a cure for insomnia.

But hey, if you like it, that’s fine with me.

And it’s not just because it’s so dull that I don’t like soccer. Another reason I don’t like it is because of a certain kind of American who does like it. Most of these sports fans — a term I use with no regard for either word, “sports” or “fans” — wouldn’t know a fumble from a first down, a hit-and-run from a double play. But every four years they show up at bars and go wild when the American team ties the Tunisians zero-zero, or nil-nil, as they call it.

I’m not much of a fan of Ann Coulter either (though she’s infinitely more interesting than soccer), but she’s right when she says that soccer is “excruciatingly boring” and that “the reason there are so many fights among spectators at soccer games is to compensate for the tedium.”

Which brings us to how, for many Americans — almost always liberal elite Americans — soccer isn’t really about soccer so much as it’s about proving the superiority of the young over the old, of liberals over conservatives.

Take Peter Beinart, a liberal journalist and professor of journalism and political science at the City University of New York. Mr. Beinart was with Fareed Zakaria on CNN the other day and had a lot to say about how soccer just might save America — from its narrow-minded, insular self.

Soccer fans in America, he said, show us that “we have a less nativist sports culture and we’re more open — at least some groups in the United States — young people, immigrants, political liberals — are more open to liking the same kinds of things that people in other countries do. Things don’t have to be ours and ours alone.”

Part of the attraction of soccer, Mr. Zakaria says, is that we’re sharing the sport with the rest of the world; we’re following something the rest of the world is following. Yes, Professor Beinart says, but it’s much more than that. Younger Americans, who like soccer more than older Americans, “are far less likely than older Americans to say that American culture is superior or to say that America is the greatest country in the world.”

In case you were wondering, this is a good thing to Mr. Beinart, and I suspect many other liberals. Because “it reflects a more cosmopolitan temperament, more of a recognition that America has things to learn from the rest of the world, and that in fact maybe we have to learn from the rest of the world if we’re going to remain a successful country.”

After taking that in, Mr. Zakaria observes that soccer fans in the United States look a lot like the Obama coalition. To which Beinart replied: “That’s exactly right, and if you look at the states where soccer is most popular, they’re overwhelmingly blue states and the states where soccer is least popular are red states.”

You see: Soccer is much more than a game that puts people like me to sleep. It’s a bunch of guys running up and down a “pitch” in short pants teaching us an important lesson — a lesson about how the tide is turning, about how the same people who embrace soccer embrace the idea that despite all the talk from those old right-wingers, America isn’t so special after all. Or as Peter Beinart explains it: “Younger people are far more likely than older people to say they like the United Nations. There’s a willingness to accept the idea that America is one of many nations. Yes, we have a special affinity for it. But it doesn’t mean in some objective sense [that] us, and everything we do are necessarily better.”

So there you have it. He grants us that as Americans we might have “a special affinity” for our homeland, but thanks to soccer we can learn a lot from the rest of the world. We can learn that we’re not as great as we think we are — or, more precisely, that we’re not as great as old, conservative, red-state Americans think we are.

Turns out that soccer is teaching me a lot more about elite, liberal intellectuals than it’ll ever teach me about the rest of the world. In fact, soccer has already taught me that smug, liberal elites are the single biggest reason I have no use for soccer, and that Ann Coulter isn’t crazy when she says, “Any growing interest in soccer can only be a sign of the nation’s moral decay.”

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  • Nick

    Even as an American I find this post to just be nonsense. First, with a declining economy, education falling and falling, healthcare standards dropping, and many other negative things about our country today. Why would I, as a 28 year old American, have any reason to believe my country is the best?

    Do you honestly believe that having an interest in joining the global community in a POSITIVE way(besides being known as the ones who just bomb people) is a bad thing?

    There are reasons that this SPORT is number one accross the world, and to take away any of these players athleticism and skill is just wrong. I would love to see any NFL,NBA,MLB player cover as much ground for as much time, without dying from exhaustion, as even a college level Soccer player. There are fat NFL players, fat Baseball players, and even chunky Basketball players. Where are the fat soccer players? Even their managers seem to be in shape!

    You say it’s “boring” because the scores aren’t high, 100-110(basketball) or 48-27(American Football). Yet, the average goals scored in an NHL game is 5.4, and the average in soccer is 2.7. So an average NHL game would be a 2-3 finish, while the average “football” game would be 1-2. Is that a huge difference? No, but you aren’t saying anything “boring” about hockey?

    What I think the problem that Americans and “football” have is the fact that we, Americans, aren’t good at it. We don’t know the rules, we don’t know the strategies, we don’t know much of anything about it at all. Thus we would be at a disadvantage in the sport. America doesn’t play like that. We know war, we are comfortable in that situation, but a game where you kick a ball into a net just doesn’t seem to make enough sense to us, which is sad.

    It may sound silly but I would love to see America become a PART of the global community and not just try and RULE it. We should aspire to get rid of our “world police” status and embrace other countries, cultures, ideas. I think America has a lot to learn from the world at large but we are too blinded by our own ego to see it. If we can embrace a simple game that the entire world LOVES, I honestly believe this could eventually help how we are viewed by the world in a very positive way.

  • brickman

    It is currently August 2 and I am watching Manchester United playing Real Madrid before 105,000 fans in the Big House in Ann Arbor MI. On Fox TV, no less.

    I realize that Michigan is a blue state but that still is a lot of people for a “friendly” (exhibition game) . NFL teams don’t draw that much in the reddest of states, although they drew over 100,000 at least twice in Mexico. Maybe Mexicans are more conservative than Texans or Alabamans. Lol.

    Your article reminds me of people who poo poohed the Beatles after their appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show. YOU JUST DON’T GET IT, BERNIE!

  • Greg Carter

    Oh, right, Americans, the only smart sports fans in the world. One thing is true: if American doesn’t invent a sport, a product, or whatever, ‘we’ tend to look down on it as inferior. That’s a fact of our culture, and I get it.

    But I’ll tell you this as someone who played, coached, and had sons excel as college soccer players: there is as much, if not more, strategy in a soccer game than virtually any other team sport I know of. Some of the tactics can drive you crazy.

    For example, in group play when you know both teams would be fine with a tie, that drives me – a true soccer fan – crazy. But would I do the same thing if I coached those teams? You’re damn right I would, because if I don’t take my team to the knockout stage I get fire.

    For someone to deny the strategy and tactics of soccer just shows the writer’s lack of understanding of the game.Here’s the thing: there is no shame in not understanding soccer, but if you are clueless about the sport just don’t act like you are offering an informed opinion when you don’t. That is just being an ignorant, smug American. That’s all I’m saying. Peace, out.

  • Greg Carter

    Ryan Nichols – there is nothing wrong with being an American fan and not liking soccer. It’s a free country. But playing AYSO as a child? AYSO is recreational soccer, not competitive soccer. If it wasn’t your cup of tea, fine. My problem is with people who criticize it because they don’t understand the game. Is that you? I have no idea, and wouldn’t accuse you of that.

  • loupgarous

    Soccer’s about right for the lesser nations. North Americans demand games that employ strategy and tactics. It’s why we are still the world’s cops.

    • Greg Carter

      Good one, loupgarous. A sport is the most popular in the world because it doesn’t have strategy and tactics. I think you’re being facetious, and I dig it.

  • TJ

    Mr. Beinart certainly surpasses us lesser mortals in his ability to spout psycho-babbel! Why should America be eager to follow a sport just because it is popular
    in other parts of the world. America should lead, not follow – take me out to the
    ball game! (BASEBALL, of course)

  • firststater

    Boring or scintillating, it is only a game and caution drawing any conclusions as to its indication of people and / or their beliefs. Humorous article tho.

  • Zowie

    …But America isn’t the greatest country in the world.
    It’s fabulous, yes. I love my country. But I don’t see what the US is number one in on a global scale besides number of people in prison.

  • brickman

    Conservatives may not like soccer but God loves it. Notice that today’s final between Germany and Argentina pits the countries of the two living Vicars of Christ.

  • ampdx

    To politized soccer or any sport and specially soccer being for liberals is offensive. Most people I know watch and/or participate in sports to get away from politics, life problems, etc.

  • James from Tucson

    This and similar post attributing liking of cats versus dogs to a specific political mindset are nonsense. The author always tries to attribute what he likes to his other beliefs. Moreover, in US football haven’t there been games historically that ended 0-0? Weren’t both teams trying to score? A person’s interest in a particular sport is directly related to that person’s involvement with a specific team. If you make an attempt to know the players and then associate with the team you are a fan. Otherwise, you are a casual observer. I’m about as conservative as they come and my favorite sport is soccer, even though I played basketball in college. Why, because my daughter played soccer and I’ve fallen in love with FC Barcelona.

    • Walter Peck

      “Moreover, in US football haven’t there been games historically that ended 0-0? ”

      Yes, but the most recent example in the NFL was in 1943.

      • brickman

        But that’s only because the NFL gives a team consolation points for failing to achieve the point of the game(to score touchdowns) when they kick a ball through the uprights(field goals which were not in the original rules) . If soccer gave points for corner kicks there would be no 0-0 ties but we don’t reward semi-success.

        • Walter Peck

          What about semi-successful acting careers?

          • brickman

            Every football game I have watched in the last five years has plays with wide receivers flopping hoping to draw pass interference penalties. Soccer has the same. Big deal.

          • Walter Peck

            You’re really taking this personally, aren’t you?

          • brickman

            Not at all. I was taught to write in declarative sentences.I am just stating fact and when someone replies, I answer with fact. You must be used to getting replies from mushy, squishy liberals. ;)

          • Walter Peck

            Is there another kind of liberal?

            Someone will probably take that one personally.

            Anyway, on the whole soccer vs. American football comparison, from a broader perspective, I’ve taken to football due to the rules allowing natural progression toward a goal and sudden scoring via single big plays.

            There are very few wasted plays. Most other sports have too many plays (and in some cases, too many games) that have minimal impact.

            Still, I don’t really like the way the NFL is going lately.

          • brickman

            If you like natural progression toward a goal and sudden scoring via big plays may I suggest you watch Barcelona or Arsenal play. Remember that these national teams are like the NFL Pro Bowl teams in that they have the best players but not real team work.In fact the best club teams like Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona or Chelsea can beat any of these national teams.

            As for the NFL, Chuck Bednarik was the last real man to play!

          • Walter Peck

            You can tell by looking at his hands. Having at least one finger missing or bent 90 degrees should be required before retirement is allowed.

          • brickman

            I am old enough that Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams played in the first ballgame that I ever went to. Pele played in the first soccer match, and Chuck Bednarik played in the first football game.GOOD TIMES.

  • Leo from Cork

    By definition, any game or sport which generates enthusiasm for its participants and supporters, is a good game or sport.
    Incidentally, I watched all of the games played by the US and was both entertained and impressed with the footballing skills of the team.

  • Ryan Nichols

    I watched USA play because I wanted America to win. And I feel like next world cup we may do better than this one. Now that USA is out, I could care less about soccer. I’ve noticed some people don’t like that view. They say I’m not a real soccer fan… And they are correct. I’m not a soccer fan. I’m a America fan. Just as I don’t care about swimming or long jump or almost all Olympic sports. Unless it’s USA vs. the world. Then I do cheer for my nation to be the best. Tell me what nation’s people don’t. America is the only country I know of that people try and shame you for being patriotic, for loving your country. But they won’t change me, or the way I teach my children to be proud Americans.

  • Jim Macias

    It’s shame that there are people that only enjoy it for its political implications. And it’s a shame that there are people that hate it for its political implications. I’m so tired of everything damned thing being a polarizing topic. FFS.

    • Zowie

      thank you..

  • Josh

    After replying to a few people here and reading multiple takes on it, I think the whole soccer thing is a lot simpler than we’re giving it credit for.

    American sports have become all about the highlights. SportsCenter and similar shows only bother with soccer if there’s an amazing kick, some type of fight, some outstanding goal defense. It doesn’t do much on up-and-down play that doesn’t make you shout “DAMN!”

    They only show the car crashes and amazing finishes and fights in auto racing. Hockey fights and amazing plays are all that get discussed. Golf is Tiger Woods, an amazing fluke shot, or pretty much ignored.

    The NBA is a highlight fest. Dunks, blocks, buzzer-beating shots, crazy passes, etc. The NFL is big hits, one-handed catches, ankle-breaking moves, etc.

    I think the one outlier would be MLB. It’s about as boring a sport as there is, but it’s also just ingrained in our culture. Even still, most baseball coverage is full of home runs, strikeouts, errors, fights, etc.

    We look for eye-popping action, not just skill and athletic ability and team camaraderie.

    We want a “BOOYAH!” moment. It’s not the goal-scoring/points. It’s the standout moments in a game. Soccer fans, sorry, but LeBron doing a 360 dunk in the first quarter of a meaningless game has more mass appeal than a game-winning goal that was kicked 30 yards out and that bent 10 degrees.

    But I can still say that if one were a liberal progressive looking for a sport that suited their disposition, one might choose soccer.

    • scott autry

      Golf is boring. Curling is boring. I like watching both, and I understand why, but I can still see why so many find it — boring.

      I played golf and loved it – so I know how hard it is to do what the best players do. That is why I can watch and appreciate it. But, it’s boring.

      Curling just tickles me. I find it fascinating. I ponder who invented it. And I like seeing who wins. But, it’s boring.

      Soccer is boring. Why can’t fans just admit it. The scoring is too infrequent. The pace too slow. And in the meantime, nobody beats the heck out of each other.

      That doesn’t mean it can’t be appreciated – or even loved. Being boring doesn’t mean it isn’t entertaining.

      That sounds like a contradiction — but — look at movies:

      There are some films that set a slower pace and do other things different from the more common, more popular varieties, and are considered boring by many, but they turn out to be great films…

      It’s all a matter of tastes. One film reviewer I like says he wants his Science Fiction slow and boring and Science Fantasy action packed…

      I can understand what he means….

      • Josh

        Chess is exceedingly boring. I don’t think there’s one solid argument to be made that would lead me to believe it contains any type of action. But, of course, “boring” is subjective. When I think of something as boring, I’m thinking it lacks action and excitement. For intelligent individuals who are able to see 6 or 10 moves into the future, there’s some nail-biting action happening with every touch of a chess piece. There’s a lot that’s happening in attempting to set traps, evade capture, to thwart attacks, etc.

        And while I like to play and am actually not that bad, I’ll outright ragequit if somebody takes their sweet time in plotting a move. Boredom can be excruciating for me. I stick with GNU chess, which moves very quickly.

        And I’d probably like soccer video games, and maybe even a curling video game (if they exist) where I got to control the action.

        So I can’t fuss at something for just being boring. Soccer, to me, is also pointless. lol

        • Greg Carter

          There you go again, chess is boring. Bobby Fischer’s matches with Boris Spassky and Gary Kasperov were electrifying drama. Writers described his moves as “outrageous.”
          I was around when these incredible events happened but, guess what? I don’t understand the nuances of chess – my 13 year old grandson can probably beat me 9 out of 10 times. But I sense the drama and can enjoy it. I’ll say it for the last time: if you want to dislike soccer, find it boring, or whatever, I’m not offended. I have no problem with your opinion. If you don’t like soccer you aren’t ‘too stupid to understand it’, you’re just not into it. On the other hand, just because you don’t understand soccer well enough to appreciate the nuances doesn’t mean that people who DO appreciate it are ignorant, stupid or anything of the sort. Really, this is all childish, and to think that a Big Brain like El Bernie started all of this nonsense! Bernard, you are a hero of mine. What’s up with this tomfoolery?

    • Greg Carter

      Nice post with good, fair, balanced points. We need more like this, people!

  • justlittleoldme

    Right on Bernie.

  • ulyssesmsu

    Unfortunately, whoever created that poster forgot to put a period after “I do understand it.” So, he may understand soccer, but he doesn’t understand how to correctly punctuate an English sentence.

    • Greg Carter

      LOL

  • Scott

    What a bunch of baloney! Soccer is a GAME. My daughter plays school soccer and league soccer. She is good at it. She loves it. She is obsessed with it. I’m a conservative. I like watching the game. There is no political statement being made, no political impact. It’s just a GAME! I had assumed the Coulter column was tongue-in-cheek. Now Goldberg! As a conservative, I find this positively embarrassing. What are you guys thinking?

    • Tim Ned

      The way I interrupt Bernie’s article, I believe he agrees with you. Accept with the fact that he doesn’t like the sport.

    • ulyssesmsu

      No political statement is being made by you or your daughter, but others are using this “game” to make plenty of political statements, like “The US should be like Europe.” Beinart spelled it out in paragraphs 6-10 above.

    • Greg Carter

      #1 post of them all. Great stuff, Scott!

  • JASVN67

    Just what do liberals stand for? Bigger Goverment dominating your life, higher taxes to feed the welfare state, socialized medicine, all concepts to which any freedom loving, hard working, independent American would give the middle digit to! Yes Bernie, liberals are a bore!

    • Ryan Nichols

      Liberal leaders are not for what you’ve described as much as they are for what it results in. Dependence. Dependence leads to power.

  • Homer

    First of all, I have to disagree with Ann Coulter on this. Soccer IS a sport, although a boring one.
    In my opinion, lefties like soccer because they want to be like the rest of the world.
    What they don’t realize is that, first, soccer is not popular all over the world. It’s not popular in the far east, for example.
    Second, soccer is not about the game. It’s about representation. People don’t care if their team plays well or not. They just care if they win. In some cased, that it doesn’t loose. This is why you get so many 0-0 results. Show a soccer fun from, say, Italy, a local game in Brazil, and he or she will be bored. They only care about results that concerns their team.

    • Greg Carter

      Uh, Homer, you are right about people caring about their own teams, but the difference is that a true soccer fan who actually understands the game, and the history of the leagues that play it, will find something interesting in any game if they have nothing better to do.

      But while you certainly have the right describe soccer – or anything else – as boring, you are dead wrong about the far east. 43 countries tried to qualify from Asia and the Middle East, and only Iran, Japan, Australia and South Korea qualified out of that group. A 5th team, Jordan, had a chance to sneak into the World Cup but lost an international playoff game with Uruguay which, by the way, was in the final 8 in the World Cup and would have done even better if their star striker (Suarez) wasn’t a moron. Mexico, with its proud tradition (and obnoxious team and fans) had to win a playoff with NEW ZEALAND, for crying out loud, to even qualify, and look how well Mexico did in the World Cup.

      This is so like Americans: that which they don’t understand, they ridicule. It’s really quite childish, when you think about it. The difference between Americans and fans from other countries is that, when their people don’t understand a game, they assume it must be a good game or millions of people in America wouldn’t like it. Have you been to the World Baseball Tournament? Well I went to a game in Phoenix, and the Americans weren’t even the best team in the field! These other countries have reached out to baseball – as opposed to ridiculing it because they lacked an understanding of its nuances – and are becoming competitive. That is the OPPOSITE of the arrogance we Americans often display to activities that are ‘ours.’

  • Pat

    Can’t we all just go to Longs

  • FloridaJim

    Soccer is very, very dull “the beautiful game” it is called by their followers but it is dull beyond belief. I cannot take one more minute of soccer. I would much rather watch Dinesh D’Souza’s movie “America” which explains how we got to this point based on lies and half-truths and what we should do about it, at once. That is something to get excited about!

  • scott autry

    Raise your hand if you managed to read the entire article?

    Let’s vote: Was the main point of the text that soccer sucks?

    Was the main point that the preposterous CNN show gave us a glimpse inside the heart of The Left and Liberalism?

    Maybe Mr. Goldberg needs to re-post this cutting and pasting the two parts of the text in reverse order, because it seems most people got hung up on the first few paragraphs and might not have even read it through before commenting or they couldn’t get past their indignation that someone would belittle a sport they like/love….which is a shame, because the quotes from CNN ARE a view into the heart of Liberalism…

  • Greg Carter

    Bernie, Bernie, Bernie. This is a column a blind liberal would write. Just because you don’t understand soccer doesn’t mean it isn’t a great game.

    – Liberals think everything should be given to everyone for little or no cost

    – Liberals think everyone should get a trophy.for just showing up.

    – Liberals are masters of societal co-dependency

    – Liberals think the world owes everyone instant gratification

    – Liberals don’t see how anyone can see things differently than they do. Okay, then consider this, Mr. Conservative:

    ** soccer is great sport, the #1 sport, to virtually everyone in the world except the “We’re smarter than you” and the “how could it be a great sport if we didn’t invent it?” Americans.

    I am a very strong conservative, but I am embarrassed when I read this column, embarrassed that such an intelligent, insightful writer can be so arrogant. What’s wrong with soccer? Okay, maybe the diving, that’s disgraceful, like no one in the NBA dives,

    Consider how soccer is more representative of true American values than another other sport, and before you begin to imagine that I’m a snobby liberal from The Hamptons, be advised that was born and raised in Utah, lettered in 2 sports in high school and love every sport that other Americans like.

    – Soccer requires everyone on a team to contribute, to work together. Not everyone is paid the same wage, but the team succeeds or fails TOGETHER.

    – A ‘goal’ in soccer is a real achievement.

    Q. So is a manufactured run in a pitchers’ duel in MLB.

    Q. Is jamming a basketball really that big of a deal? Anyone over 6 feet tall should be able to do that even if they have very little actual skill.

    Q. American football is action-packed? Are you kidding? 350 pound blubber kings ‘opening holes’ for running backs? That’s an athletic achievement? Have you ever DVR’d an NFL game, fast forwarding through penalties, commercials, huddles and instant replays? Well I have, and a 2 – 3 hour game can be viewed in less than 30 minutes. That is your idea of excitement?

    I admit my presentation is pretty scattered, so let’s talk about you for a minute, because I want to be clear: you are saying that soccer is boring because:

    a) it doesn’t require the same level of skill and athleticism as MLS/NBA/NFL requires? You’re kidding, right?

    b) goals don’t come often enough and quickly enough for your taste? How about we re=phrase that: soccer is boring TO YOU because you don’t understand the nuances of the game.

    What would you think of someone from another country who said that baseball is boring. I think you’d retort with at least some of the points I have made in this Comment.

    You think games that end in a shoot out are tedious and not entertaining? Well, I say a watching 9 innings of batters adjusting their cups 20 times during a single at-bat , pitchers spitting and peering at their catcher over 100 times per 9 inning game to get a sign, literally EVERYONE on a team watching 1st and 3rd base coaches for 10-15 seconds at a time to get ‘a sign’…..all those things are, to any fair individual, infinitely more boring than soccer.

    But guess what, Bernie, I LOVE baseball, basketball, football – I love watching GOLF for crying out loud. Why? Because I understand the nuances of these games and, when something is over my head, I learn more about it instead of saying “boy, that is sure boring.”

    Ask anyone what they think of a sport and, 9 times out of 10, if they don’t like it the reason is they never played it or lack a desire to learn the nuances of the sport. Their deficiencies don’t make the sport they don’t enjoy ‘boring.’

    I laugh whenever I see or hear people like you and Ann Coulter talk about soccer. It is yet another expression of American arrogance.
    – We didn’t invent soccer so it’s boring
    – There aren’t enough goals and, because I absolutely LIVE for instant gratification, the game is boring.
    – I don’t know the rules and I think offsides ‘is stupid.’

    All of these are reasons you might not enjoy a soccer match but, because you lack an understanding of the game it is BORING? This is simply another form of The Ugly American blowing his arrogant horn for the rest of the world to hear.

    Look, I don’t care if you like the game, but you should at least respect it, and realize that when billions of people around the world LOVE the game, your problem with enjoying the game has a lot more to do with YOU than THE GAME.

    For someone as smart as you, Bernie, I shouldn’t have to waste my time stating the obvious.

    Now take your Red Card and go home. You haven’t EARNED the right to criticize soccer because the fact is that you are clueless about it. Your comments about soccer are as scintillating as hearing Nancy Pelosi talk about the principles of conservative politics. In both situations those ‘comments’ are better left unsaid and, as stated, say a lot more about you than they do about the game of Football.

    • mcveen

      So what? We watch soccer for 10 minutes to get ready for bed.

    • David Gorton

      After reading your letter, I think Bernie & I both found something more boring than soccer!

      • Greg Carter

        Thanks for reading my entry, though apparently you’d rather throw out a cheap shot than tell me what I said that was incorrect. Not your best moment.

        On the other hand, I refuse to insult a disabled VietNam veteran who has paid his dues and earned the right to say anything he wants, any time he wants. Thank you for your service to this country. I can’t begin to appreciate how it has affected your life.

        • David Gorton

          Mr.Carter, it was not intended as a cheap shot..Bernie, me and thousands/millions,[?], of others think soccer’s boring. Without question the players are tremendous athletes, and could run circles around NFL, MLB & NBA players. That said, soccer does not allow me, as a fan, from the stands, or, at home on the computer, to inter-act; create strategies, second guess the coach/manager, set-up my own plays, etc!
          Soccer’s opportunistic, if you can score, great, if not, wait till the shoot-out at the end of the game . . . . . ?
          Trying to change someone’s thinking about how they should think, or feel, is boring. When I do it, my wife & kids just roll their eyes. But, your letter was well written, warm regards, my sincere apology if I offended you.

    • Josh

      I have to quibble with a point here. The last time the NFL operated by O-linemen opening up holes for running backs, DVRs weren’t around.

    • Cecilio Mendez

      Mr. Greg Carter, your finishing sentence (“I am a very strong conservative…”) sounds like you just are a RINO – at best – and use that as a crutch to hide your real and true ARROGANT nature.

      • Greg Carter

        “Sounds like you are just a RINO.” Is that supposed to offend me? I am fiscally and socially conservative and don’t need to justify that to the likes of you. It isn’t arrogant to defend something you think is exciting, it IS arrogant to call a sport boring because you don’t understand it. And you don’t.

    • Tim Ned

      I enjoy to watch baseball and occasionally soccer. But there is one fact that is a certainty. If I turn on the TV to watch one of the these games on a Saturday at 1:00 PM. I am snoozing by 1:30 PM.

    • ulyssesmsu

      No one ever said, “We didn’t invent soccer, so we don’t like it.” They said, “It’s boring, so we don’t like it.” That’s not arrogant. It’s just an opinion, based on observation.

      • Ryan Nichols

        It’s really that simple. Well said.

      • Greg Carter

        I stand by what I said, all of it. Have a nice life.

    • Ryan Nichols

      People have every right to dislike soccer. And to find it extremely boring. Doesn’t mean they don’t understand it.. I played in the ayso as a child. I understand it just fine. And it’s extremely boring to watch. Just because many countries around the world love the sport doesn’t mean Americans should or shouldn’t embrace it. Or show it “respect” as you say. No more than should Americans respect football or basketball. What should be respected is people’s individual views. It’s a game. It’s not important. Whether most Americans understand it or not is of no importance. And the people who feel they must insult others for not seeing the sport as you do are pathetic. Just as pathetic as those soccer players who flail to the ground as if they’re dieing every time they get the ball taken from them.

    • Nino

      Greg, thak you. I love Bernie and Ann, but this time they have missed the point…and you explained that point.

  • mcveen

    Let’s be honest, soccer appeals to women and feminine orientations due to its nonviolent, rather sterile aspect. People run around on a field for an hour or 2 or 3, and If some body manages a score via penalty kick, etc. wonderful! Our team had fun running around so what does it matter?

    As such, Democrat party leaders want to glom soccer Moms for only the sake of appearance. They have no soul, no guts.

  • Walt

    Goldberg is my kind of conservative: factual and reasonable whose political analyses are usually right on the mark, the kind of conservative journalist that I want the political independents to embrace. We need these independents if we ever hope to capture the Oval Office again. But I think it was a mistake for Goldberg to critique soccer from a right/left, nationalist vs. internationalist perspective. Silly, in fact, for a serious journalist–which Goldberg certainly is. OK, so it helps a bit to cement his conservative credentials with the Ann Coulter wing of the party, which he does not often embrace, but in my view, by politicizing soccer, and angering millions who love the sport, was not advantageous to the conservative cause. I believe there is more downside to this article than upside for his many fans, including me, who see Goldberg as the voice of conservative reason and common sense. Perhaps I am just one of those old, now often-scorned, “establishment” Republicans.
    Walt

    • Arty Cohn

      Bernie is not a “conservative” He is what used to be called “liberal” before the ex-commies and socialists stole the appelation.

  • Galatasaray1905

    The game is called “football.” Why? Because it is played by using your feet. Watching a number of overweight and obese guys in tights running 2 to 3 feet forward at a time can only interest morons, Football is a game of strategy and tactics. Not a good game for morons to watch or understand. To play football you need a pair of legs, a brain and upper body strength; qualities which escape the morons who criticize a sport that is played, watched and followed by ninety percent of the worlds population. I would challenger any so called American Football player to run 12,000 meters in 90 minutes and then play another 30 minutes if needed and run another 4,000 meters! Put on your shorts and cleats you morons and let’s see you on the “pitch.”

    • mcveen

      Nasty boy, you don’t seem to understand that what Americans love about sports & everyday life is power!. The kind of power that runs an opponent into the ground or knocks a lung loose in an open field tackle. Yeah, that’s what real Americans truly love and I am proud to admit it. If you can’t appreciate that then take your punky little self back to Uruguay..

    • Arty Cohn

      I played soccer in high school and college. it is a fine game to play, but an awful one for most Americans to watch. Why? Because except for backward defensive passes, more passes are intercepted rather than being completed.

  • therealguyfaux

    See, here’s the thing– soccer isn’t “dull” or “boring,” because the ball and the players are usually in motion, something which is NOT the case with the No Fun League or MLB. Get it straight– soccer is FRUSTRATING. You can try to build up an attack, and the defender merely kicks it out of play, or tries to break your ankles, making the whole thing Sisyphean. If the truth were known, if you know enough to watch the field as a whole rather than the just the guy with the ball, you can see how they’re trying to build the attack. But since most attacks never pay off, most Americans figure why invest the time and effort to learn how to watch them do it?

    And Bernie, if he’s being serious, is one of those who has never even thought in terms of soccer’s being a character-building sport, in the “You bust your ass, and it doesn’t always pay off– in fact, it hardly ever does– but when it DOES, it’s sweet!” mould. And that’s actually pretty American, come right down to it– but we got rid of THAT ethos, when we started giving kids “participation trophies,” and THAT’s where the Liberals screwed the game for the American public.

    • TheOriginalDonald

      OH MY BROTHER! TESTIFY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • mcveen

        Soccer is for wussies.

        • Jim Macias

          The word wussy is for 5 year olds.

    • rs724503

      I’m going to say it again, don’t try and convince someone who doesn’t like soccer that it’s beautiful or fun because the entire premise is subjective. If Bernie doesn’t like soccer and you do, that doesn’t mean one or both of you is wrong. It’s no different than a movie you love but someone else hates, neither is necessarily wrong.

      I agree with everything you are saying but that also doesn’t mean Bernie is wrong when he says to him soccer is boring. We all process things differently, and he processes soccer as boring, however I very much disagree with Bernie turning soccer into some sort of a political and cultural divide. Liking or disliking soccer should in no way be a political statement and on that point I disagree wholeheartedly with Bernie.

      • therealguyfaux

        I’m reminded of the wry joke the GI’s told in WWII about how they were told they were fighting for “Mom, apple pie and baseball.” Sports get politicized when it suits people to do it. And to say that certain sports are more ingrained in a culture than others is to state the obvious. But anytime I hear someone talk about how they don’t like a particular sport for reasons other than the type of play of the sport, my back goes up. You might as well do that with music, couture, and cuisine (oh, wait– people DO). Anytime anyone tries to tell you that, e.g., jazz, or BBQ ribs, or Levi’s are somehow inherently more “worthy,” in virtue of their American origin, that’s falling into the same trap.

        So after Sunday’s World Cup final game, we will be treated to the statuary garden known as baseball when we watch the MLB All-Star Game on Tuesday from Tarzhay Field. And regular service will be resumed.

        • rs724503

          Certain things are more ingrained than others for all sorts of reasons. Baseball was invented in the USA, of course it’s going to be more ingrained in our culture than soccer. That doesn’t make one sport better than another.

  • KStrett

    I think liberal’s affinity for attempting like soccer can be summed up as:

    Europeans and the third world love soccer, therefore we love soccer…

    • Daniel

      I think you have nailed it KStreet.

  • Barancy Peloma

    yes, soccer is boring. after america lost, i stopped watching.

    • Walter Peck

      What has been seen cannot be unseen!

      • Barancy Peloma

        yes, i hear that alot!

  • Will Swoboda

    I’d rather have a colonoscopy in a store window than watch a soccer game. At least during the procedure your given Valium.

    • 4deuce

      Bravo!! Here here!!

    • KStrett

      I think I would go for watching the soccer game ……

  • MontanaMade

    soccer = watching the Twilight series over and over again

  • VinBick

    Soccer = Watching Paint Dry…..

  • Judy

    I can’t believe I’m chiming in on this, but my guess is that most soccer fans never excelled a t sports. No proof, just a guess.

    • brickman

      There used to be a TV show on ABC Sports in the 70s and 80s called Superstars. It was a multi sports competition. It brought together the best athletes to compete against each other. They could not compete in their sport. This lead to some funny moments famously Hwt. Champ Joe Frazier trying to swim. The competition was held for about 8 years.It was won by Bob Seagren 3x , Steve Smith 3x and Kyle Rote Jr , a pro soccer player in the NASL twice. No Football player ever came close.

  • margeryco13

    Not so! Texas is a red state and soccer is thriving there!

    • Daniel

      Open borders may have had an impact there

    • brickman

      Clint Dempsey is not a product of an open border unless you mean pre 1900.

  • Darren Perkins

    What’s more boring than soccer???
    Reading about peoples opinion of soccer.

    • Patrick Murphy

      More boring than that is reading opinions about people’s opinions…

      • MontanaMade

        and yet I’d rather read other’s opinions on opinions about opinions on soccer opinions than actually watch soccer… but that’s just my opinion

    • TheOriginalDonald

      No, I’m sorry. the correct answer is BEISBOL!

  • Daniel

    You’re preaching to the choir here Bernie. I was thinking that one way to make the game more interesting would be to spray the players with some Eau De Gazelle and throw a couple hungry lions on the field.

  • Shane

    I watch World Cup soccer every 4 years, especially the American games, but I am just not interested in MLS or any other soccer league. I would take fast-paced Ice Hockey over Futbol any day. Liberals like Obama prefer to think of themselves as “Citizens of the World” which is especially bad for a President to believe. Obama has little loyalty to the USA like most on the far left.

    • Mark W.

      Exactly. As a citizen of the world, Obama is free to say “I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism.”

  • Mark W.

    ‘Younger Americans, who like soccer more than older Americans, “are far less likely than older Americans to say that American culture is superior or to say that America is the greatest country in the world. Younger people are far more likely than older people to say they like the United Nations. There’s a willingness to accept the idea that America is one of many nations.” ‘
    Of course, that has nothing to do with soccer and everything to do with what they are being taught in our government supported schools by union teachers who are obligated to the Left.

  • lark2

    I have often wondered why the rest of the world goes so ga-ga over soccer. Bernie, your thoughts clarify the issue quite well. It’s true that the Liberals and the globalists love soccer. They do love the UN. The young people who are victims of American liberal education … do view America as nothing special. They do view us as just one of the rest and they do not believe there is anything particularly exceptional about us. Obama and his ilk love soccer. Americans do not.

    • Patrick Murphy

      Of which most are soccer fans…

  • Johnny Deadline

    American soccer enthusiasts are the sports equivalent of “leading from behind.” As the national sport of liberals and elites for the reasons Bernie masterfully articulated, I’m shocked that they support any sport that doesn’t mandate pads, braces, helmets, a softer ball for safety, a mandatory 5-day waiting period and that allows score keeping. Probably why the “nil-nil” games give so many of them a Chris Matthews-like thrill up their leg.

    • Mark W.

      For some reason, the sport does get left out of any discussion about concussions… but they must happen amid all the chaos, don’t they?

      • Shane

        Yes, from collisions, which happened to an American player in one game, and from the tens of thousands of times that they bounce a ball off their head during their lifetimes.

      • Johnny Deadline

        You got me Mark. I get sleepy just thinking about watching soccer. Liberals typically want everyone to do as they say, not as they do.

      • Patrick Murphy

        Well, at least no broken backs in other sports, like the Brazillian player!

        • brickman

          NY Met player David Wright broke his back last year.

  • Csori

    I simply cannot believe the silliness that goes around the soccer
    game. Mature and serious man (Bernie dear) & unfortunately women (Ann Coulter) who I enjoy reading or listen to putting out absolutely serious and immature articles about liking it, hating it, and mostly politicizing it.
    I am from a country that was in the soviet blocback in the days. We grew up with soccer all around us. Girls didn’t play back then, but the boys were
    kicking around that ball nonstop. It was cheap, didn’t require padding,
    helmets, not even a huge place. Coming back from school the first thing they did was putting their backpacks down,marking the corners and the gate for goals and they forgot about being poor,forgot about really everything else, they just loved the game of kicking or heading the ball. My brother endlessly practiced even alone, trying to master the individual tricks that would wow all the girls. I cannot believe that this game that requires speed, great athletic abilities and individual skills and excellent team play became the frowned upon game of the liberal elite? Nonsense!
    It is an old game, simple, requires constant movement and just as enjoyable as hockey for example. For the the dismay of those who absolutely don’t try to understand it, they kids will. Even conservatives like myself.

    Anyway! You don’t have to love it! If you find it boring, do not watch it. It is as simple as that. I still find baseball absolutely boring, but it doesn’t mean that I make earth shattering conclusions about it. I simply didn’t grow up with it and never took the time to thoroughly understand it. But try to make a political argument about it, would be just as silly that some of my favorite conservatives make about soccer.

    • Tim Ned

      I suggest you read the article. Bernie doesn’t like the game. But this is his prerequisite to the CNN commentary. Personally, I haven’t watched it in the past but I have been caught up with the world cup and watching when I can.

      I love Hockey and my wife hates it. But after 39 years of marriage I ain’t changing nothing in her mind.

    • Mark W.

      I agree… If you don’t like it, you don’t have to watch it. I don’t care about it, but you are free to love it. I didn’t like baseball for years, but now that I’m retired, I’ve had time to watch and learn… and, to my surprise, I really enjoy it. Sportscasters like Mike Krukow and Duane Kuiper (SF Giants) help the uninitiated learn while watching. But, American Football and Basketball will always be my favorites. With the kind of strategy is that is thought out and executed throughout those games–no other sports come close for intellectual and emotional satisfaction.

    • scott autry

      I think Mr. Goldberg buried the lead here. His first note belittling the entertainment value of soccer has shut down many minds. It’s unfortunate, because whether a sport is good or bad is – opinion – nothing more. I can’t explain why I like watching curling or golf, but I do. If others hate it – so be it…It’d personal opinion. Never fact…

      (Soccer bores me to tears.)

      But, if minds had not slammed shut because their favorite sport was attacked —– they would see just how incredible the “news” show he quotes from is in — displaying for everyone to see —- what is at the heart of The Left in American society today:

      A great disdain for the bulk of the American people. A disdain for the history of the country – willing to point out with glee all the evils it has had – as they pat each other on the back for being so noble in ripping down their own country – and slapping in the face those who dare offend them by being patriotic and championing the blessings the first democracy brought to the world.

      The guy shows what Mr. Goldberg is pointing out: That they love soccer so much in large part because —- it ISN’T American.

      It is “Other” — and if you can’t exactly say everything The Other does or has is “better” than the evils of American society with its oppressive capitalism and blind, racists patriotism — you darn well better NOT criticize something about that Other…

      In short, The Left loves itself for disliking the United States and the bulk of the ignorant flyover racists and fascists and losers who make up such a misguided society…(in their minds, of course).

    • Shane

      No, in the case of immigrants to American and Hispanic Americans, they may have a love affair with soccer, but most Americans find the game boring. I watch World Cup and Olympic soccer, but that’s it. Try watching Ice Hockey, it’s far superior to soccer to watch on TV.

    • mcveen

      Soccer would be a little more interesting if two heads (simultaneously) were required to advance the ball.

  • Mark W.

    I had a friend who loves the sport and writes about it. I told him I never understood it, even though we were introduced to it in school during the 1950’s. I told him that to me, it looked like organized chaos. “Oh,” he said, “then you do understand it!”

  • Stimpy

    I find soccer boring too but there are a few things to like about it. Like hockey or baseball, it is what I would call a more democratic sport. You don’t have to be a 7 foot tall pituitary freak or a human mastodon like you do to play basketball or football. Anybody can play and it doesn’t take a lot of expensive equipment. That said, it is of a lot more interest to the participants than the spectators. It is OK to get a little excited about it when the games are big. I even watch some of the Tour de France every year … but that is more about seeing the scenery than the action of a horde of masochists.

  • 4Commencefiring4

    I think 3rd world nations should learn and play American football rather than America learning and playing their games. When they start pitching in and saving other nations from destruction and freeing millions of people who were under oppression, then they can foist their sports on the rest of the world. In the meantime, the U.S. rules. Sorry, Barack.

  • lindzen4pm

    This really is two nations divided by a common language stuff. I could go on about American Football, which is as dull as ditchwater, and appears to fill in around TV adverts, or baseball, a two dimensional yawn-fest.
    If these sports were so engaging, the whole bloody world would have taken them up. But, …er…. they took up saccer. Yes, saccer, as you quaintly call it, or football, as the world, except the US, calls it.
    As for the politics, I’m more right wing than a busload of Burmese generals, so it ain’t a left/right issue in the UK, although there are pretentious prats who pretend they like football to show their street cred, but are soon found out. Maybe that’s the real issue your side.

    • Patrick Murphy

      Now you fit the class of “don’t understand it” regarding “American” football, which is nearly as popular in Canada, and has a league in the UK.

      As for the rest of the (3rd) world, I don’t give a rat’s a$$ what they do or don’t like. Half of them would love to have “ditchwater” to drink!

      • lindzen4pm

        ‘..nearly as popular in Canada’

        No further questions, Your Honour.

  • Bryan

    Several years back, I was watching “Fox and Fiends” (as Don Imus calls it). I really don’t like this show for the most part, because it (and possibly Sean Hannity) are the only aspect of the Fox network that live up to prevailing liberal criticism of the Fox network–to wit, that they are so in the tank against anything to do with Obama that they would find a liberal plot in his selection of toothpaste. I hate that, because it tends to hamper the legitimacy of their substantive arguments against the Obamanation.

    But anyway….The guest that morning was a sociologist who was discussing his decades long research on the topic of why everyone in Europe and many other parts of the world hates Americans and the United States.

    He said that he had lived all over the world, and researched this topic from many different standpoints: religion, standard-of-living, political philosophies, the U.S. role in wars,….you name it. He was finally able to conclude, he stated in all seriousness, that the true reason why many other folks in the world hate us is because “we absolutely REFUSE to like soccer”.

    When all the Fox hosts started laughing, he stopped them. “No, I’m serious. That really is the main reason.”

    I wish to God that I had a recording of it. It was hilarious.

    • pasquale7

      I have traveled a lot around the world, especially the Western Hemisphere and most people do not hate the United States. I tend to go off of the beaten path and 99.9% of my experiences have been very positive. The 1% was just a few criminal losers but I triumphed in the end. Actually the 2 incidents that were negative had nothing to do with the United States. They were just your basic losers like you find in any country. I think people that find America Haters in other countries are just looking for them. Hell, if anything what I find is that most people in most countries hate their own governments, except maybe for the Scandanavians. Though I must say, in Stockholm we were invited to stay with a newly married couple and they thought their country was too Socialistic.

      5

    • mcveen

      You obviously hate America, so why keep torturing? Move to a soccer loving place like Uruguay!

  • kayakbob

    Personally, I think this one is overblown, but Bernie did touch on one factor – age. Also there is a difference between playing it and watching it.

    There were no soccer teams when I was in Jr. High or High School. But I always enjoyed being active and was reasonably athletic, so I played club soccer for a few years in my early 30’s as a way to stay active and get out from behind a desk twice a week to run around in the fresh air. I wasn’t very good being a newbie playing guys 10 years younger than I. But I liked playing it.

    However I never liked sitting and watching soccer even during the years I played, and even less so after I stopped playing. The World Cup is on most TV’s at my gym so I find myself taking in a few minutes – until some guy gets knocked down and flails about as if he lost a limb, only to get up and continue on 15 seconds later. That is when I remember I don’t like to watch soccer.

  • Chuck

    I know a lot of conservatives, including ardent members of the Tea Party, who watch soccer, including the World Cup, the English Premier League, and MLS. Why? Because their kids play soccer. My son has been playing park district soccer for the last 8 years. Many of his friends are on travel teams. Yes, there is a lack of scoring in soccer. But, the days of NBA games in which both teams scored more than 120 points are long gone. By the same token, soccer is a lot like hockey, but without the on-the-field fighting. I went to a Blackhawks game against the Kings last December. The final score was 1-0. Yet, it was more exciting than most MLB, NBA, NFL, and Big 10 games that I’ve attended over the years.

    No one can make blanket statements about sports and political philosophy. If I recall, Bill Buckley didn’t think much of baseball as a sport.

    A friend of mine in college was a follower of Ayn Rand and despised football, despite the fact that we attended a “football school.”

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to change into an orange shirt for the Argentina-Netherlands game. But I promise to contemplate how Barack Obama is screwing up the country during stoppages in play.

    • kayakbob

      Agreed. I think connection to a political philosophy (for or against) is tenuous, at best. Most liberals I know don’t like sports period..HS, college or professional.

      Yes, many people I know that follow soccer do so because the kids play.

      And yes, for me a well played, hard fought 1-0 hockey game, soccer game, or 3-0 (American) football game is preferable to the typical no-defense-no-traveling-calls-ever NBA game. So scoring has little do with it for me, though it might for other people.

      • toddyo1935

        My Granddaughter was All Area Soccer in HS, also playing private league (can’t remember the term). She was offered two full boat scholarships to play soccer in college, but has had enough. There go my opportunities to look for four leaf clovers on the grass during the games – which by the way in HS were only attended by players’ parents.

        • kayakbob

          Similar thing happened to a friend. Her girls played select as kids; then HS; with more select in off-season. They played or practiced pretty much all year round. She drove them 2 hours each way to practice(!) with teams in a big metropolitan area to improve their skills for college level soccer.

          When Div. 1 colleges offered scholarships both girls had completely burned out on it. Neither one played in college. So what was it all for?

  • Wally C

    Recently Bob Beckle, a noted lib stated on “The Five” how he hates soccer so it is not a perfect correlation.

    • Jarob54

      Beckle is a red blooded Amercian. The man once pounded the booze down with impunity. He likes his steak rare, and played football in college. He’s a liberal,not a politicaly correct liberal, but he’s the good type of liberal. Bob is okay in my book.

      • Steve Fair

        LMAO!!!!!! Why Beckel almost sounds like a redneck. Is that why you like him? You really believe all liberals drink French wine and eat sushi?

        • Jarob54

          You can bloody well go sod yourself.

          • Steve Fair

            What’s a non politically correct liberal?

          • Patrick Murphy

            Bob Beckel.

          • Steve Fair

            Meaning what? He’s a big, beefy white dude who likes beer, football and hunting so he’s acceptable to the average rightwing trogolodyte?

  • KAG505

    Soccer IS boring. But what is fun to watch is all the “flopping”. Players falling on the ground, rolling around in agony because an opposing player came within 6 feet of him as he is rolling the ball along. I thought that players in the NBA had flopping down to a science but the NBA could learn volumes from soccer players. And the celebrations upon scoring goals. One would think that the goal scorer has discovered a cure for all disease in the world and established peace everywhere, the way they act. Even the NFL isn’t that bad…..

    • kayakbob

      Agree completely with the flopping, and flailing about comment. It could be called ‘acting class’ instead of a sport.

  • Steve

    Bernie you forgot to tell you audience that in Europe Soccer is called FOOTBALL….that’s right FOOTBALL. Explains why Liberals love it…they feel oh so International like :)

    I currently live in a country that just recently hosted the European Games last year and I can assure you Soccer is boring, very boring. Most of the “action” is in the viewing stands watching the fights.

    At least Britain has Rugby and Soccer :)))

    The rest of the World will use the term American Football to refer to that treasured pigskin :)))

    Godspeed Bernie and keep up the good work !!!

  • amppdx

    Most people who say, “I hate soccer” or “soccer is a boring game” most likely haven’t seen a game or understand it. As in most sports games, there are several things to consider: passion, experience, innate ability, intelligence, strategy, tradition and so forth. If you don’t believe it, just watch what Costa Rica did in this WC.
    Every four years, national teams worldwide participate in the elimination to compete for the World Cup. Then in most cases, it becomes a matter of prestige, recognition and pride; ask a German fan.
    To make this game political is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard from Mr. Goldberg, that goes to Ann Coulter as well.

    • rs724503

      People who love any sport always say to people who don’t love that sport that they don’t understand said sport. I think every sport, short of curling, is beautiful in its own way, but don’t try and convince someone who doesn’t like soccer that it’s great. It’s an entirely subjective thing. I generally want much more scoring in my sports than soccer provides; it’s why I also don’t have much use for hockey. There’s nothing wrong with that, and it shouldn’t lessen your own enjoyment in the sport.

      • KAG505

        Between soccer and hockey, I will take hockey every time. Curling next. Soccer would be at the bottom list, just above Golf. But….not everything is for everybody, so enjoy…

    • Patrick Murphy

      As Bernie also said, I’ve watched it, I understand it (I’ve even played it), and I still think it’s boring! Or as LIBERAL Bob Beckel said, it’s not like the rest of the world has many sport options.

      Unlike the truly exciting sports, ice hockey, football, as a poor nation, all you need is a round ball-like thing (a goat head will do) and some open space (which undeveloped nations have plenty).

  • RBlakeH

    I think liberals like soccer more than conservatives because it finally gives them a sense of having balls. They also like to play with each others balls, so that makes it a win win for them.

    • Stimpy

      I think that liberals also like to kick people in the shins. Don’t soccer players lose a few brain cells every time they head the ball? I wonder if all soccer players turn into liberals.

    • Johnny Deadline

      Seeing how many libs kick like little girls, it’s no wonder that they favor a sport that lets them run around like headless chickens. The shorts are cute, too.

  • Jarob54

    I would rather visit the dentist than watch soccer. But soccer is here, and it’s being force fed down the throats of Americans because those in the know; know that the future residents love soccer. Get my drift. And that’s why soccer is the sport of the new millennium in America.
    I grew up with baseball, I still love the game and take in a few Birmingham Barons games each season, but I’m not a ‘new’ resident nor am I a twenty something. I can still recall the thrill of watching Mickey Mantle send a pitch towering over the fence and that was now such a long time ago. Not everything that changes is for the better.
    Soccer, I’ll pass. Thank you.
    Funny story:
    Abe and Moe were the best of friends. They grew up in Brooklyn and loved the Dodgers. When the Dodgers moved west to Los Angeles, both were heart broken. Abe and Moe made a pact if one would die before the other they would return and tell the other if there was baseball in heaven. Moe passed before Abe.
    One night Abe was awakened and was startled to see Moe in his bedroom. Abe said, Moe is that you,. Yeah it’s me Moe said. Well Moe is there baseball in heaven. Well Moe said, I have good news and bad news. Whats the good news Abe asked. The good news is, there’s baseball in heaven. Great exclaimed Abe. Whats the bad news. Well the there’s a game tomorrow and you’re pitching.

    • rs724503

      It’s being “forced down people’s throats” as you say because the World Cup in a once in four year event and ESPN has marketed it like crazy.

      That doesn’t mean it’s here to stay or that future residents love it. That’s ridiculous. Ratings for the World Cup are great but ratings for MLS barely register.

      • Jarob54

        It’s forced down our throats because ESPN entered the ‘political zone’ many years ago. And that’s why I don’t watch ESPN.

        • rs724503

          I’m not sure what the busloads of illegals has to do with great ratings for the World Cup, which again occurs every four years.

          You sound angry and you sound like an ideologue who doesn’t know very much beyond the talking points force fed to them, by those you admire.

          • Jarob54

            Bugger off

        • Patrick Murphy

          Um, Jared, that’s what HE said…

      • brickman

        Ratings for AA baseball would barely register if they were broadcast. That’s the level MLS is. I watch the English Premier League, not MLS.

  • Brad Gillespie

    Ha ha! This is fantastic. Now I actually have an intellectual reason not to like soccer. I always felt like it was just sort of a foolish bias, not based on anything reasonable. This is obviously just not so!!

  • http://sellingthesecondamendment.com/ Gregory Smith

    I like gladiators, so I must be Roman! LOL

  • SkyCitizen

    Soccer, especially the World Cup, is every bit as exciting as a pachinko machine. The very existence of soccer validates the idea that in countries where imagination is discouraged, life is emulated on the playing field. The meandering of the ball back and forth on the pitch mimics a citizen’s fruitless efforts to get something done but is thwarted by government goal keepers at each end. It is the game of low expectations and a metaphor for Liberalism.

  • Lamont_Madison

    Real Americans like football – not a wussie sport like soccer – soccer is more boring than baseball, which itself can be excruciating to watch.

  • Lamont_Madison

    Great job Bernie. I HAVE LONG WONDERERED WHY A BIG SPORTS FAN LIKE ME COULDN’T GET INTO SOCCER. NOW IT IS PERFECTLY CLEAR – SOCCER AND LIBERALS SUCK!

  • OKWishbone

    If soccer players are so tough, why is it that the only soccer players that ever play football are kickers? And no one is allowed to touch kickers! In soccer you have one guy kicking the ball and 20 or so others running around this gigantic field looking for something to do! I’m not quite sure what’s “beautiful” and “elegant” about that. I also wonder about what is particularly wonderful and inspiring about those soccer riots in the stands and after the games in which the losing team’s fans (and sometimes the winners) start fires, break windows, turn over cars, commit assault and even murders during their periods of exultation/devastation. Kind of makes Cowboys/Redskins look like a girly slap fight, doesn’t it. I think the World Series and Super Bowl could use more stabbings and general mayhem to liven things up. I’ve lost all respect for the Final Four now that I think about the spectacle that is the World Cup. One final thought: The popularity of soccer in the US among kids started about 20 years ago-give or take a few years. These kids are now voting. Obama heavily won the young vote. These kids were playing soccer, not American games like baseball or football. Is anybody else seeing this connection? For the good of the country-this the last best hope of man on earth-soccer should be banned.

    • Patrick Murphy

      Well, Ann Coulter and Bernie see this correlation…

  • Eric Hagen

    Way off on this one Bernie. Soccer is a sport of finesse and strategy. I’m a conservative and don’t view the sport from the lens of politics. Frankly, I think that is ridiculous and misses what the game is about – competition. Its not about the number of goals or the speed of play. Its simply about possession. The team that controls the ball the longest typically wins. That’s it. Nothing more. If you take the time to learn the basics you’ll grow to like the game – for itself (nothing else). Then you’ll find yourself understanding the sport’s nuances, which will increase your appreciation of the game.
    Again, soccer has nothing to do with politics. We can enjoy soccer in along with the others sports that are played here in the U.S. (i.e. football, baseball, basketball, lacrosse, ice hockey, etc.)
    Let’s keep politics and sports separate. Politics always ruins things.

  • Chris Bateman

    I love that even Bernie is getting trashed in the comments for this propaganda. C’mon, Bernie, this tribal red vs. blue garbage is what’s wrong with the country. Why do you hate America so much that even soccer has to be a political pissing contest?

    • rs724503

      I think Bernie was being mostly tongue in cheek however I agree that Bernie is unnecessarily contributing to the politicization of soccer, which is in itself ridiculous. Enjoyment of a sport shouldn’t be a political issue and I shouldn’t feel like I’m making a political statement by whether or not I choose to watch the World Cup. To each their own, and anyone who loves soccer should continue to enjoy it free from politics. I found Coulter’s arguments to be just as ridiculous as Beinart’s and Zakaria, and Bernie would have contributed more by talking about the politicization of soccer rather than how it’s a liberal sport.

  • Bulldog

    Like Bernie, I’m a lifetime Alumnae of the Socialist University of Rutgers and when I left Bernie came in. Unfortunately, that was the beginning of the demise of a great academic university. In my opinion, Bernie at that time was a screaming liberal and I challenge him to deny it. Naturally I wouldn’t make such a statement unless I had irrefutable proof. If Bernie tries to deny this charge he is more of a fool than even his statement about soccer makes him.

  • 356por

    If soccer is so great, why did the Australians invent their own form of football?

  • David Nelson

    It is not necessary to trounce soccer to reveal the idiocy of people like Beinart. This is playing Beinhart’s game on Beinhart’s turf. Whether the sport were tiddlywinks or the NFL, HE is still a dunce. Goldberg is letting association bleed through here, and denouncing something that actually is integrous (even if dull), with the deceitful falsehoods of the left.

    • mcveen

      Many responders here are missing the point, or thrust, of Bernie’s article. It’s about liberals & soccer Moms, the attempt to leverage the image of soccer Moms toward liberalism. Is that a good thing?

  • Chuck Weber

    Oh come on, Bernie. I like your stuff a lot but this column is ridiculous. Equating liking soccer with thinking America isn’t a great country is stupid. And by the way, yes, soccer can be boring at times, but it’s nowhere near as snooze inducing as baseball.

    • semmy

      LOL… please, Chuck. At least stuff happens in baseball.

  • justintime

    When I can’t sleep at night, I do one of three things: I turn on soccer, or turn on golf, or watch paint dry and then I go right to sleep. Seriously though, I enjoy soccer in the World Cup and in the Olympics, but American football will always be my first love.

  • billmorgenstein

    Don’t agree with Bernie on this one. I’m a Conservative & find that once you learn the details of the game you will find it exciting. Except for Brazil’s debacle this WC was the most exciting ever.

  • SpecialForcesVet

    Bernie is right about soccer. Or ‘fútbol’. This is why Aussies and Kiwis — and Brit military guys — play rugby. Now that’s a sport.

    De oppresso liber.

    • gold7406

      I watched a girl’s [college] rugby twice, very tough women.

  • John H

    Typical elitist response. Many sincere Americans love soccer. You have every right to hate it, but I also have every right to say you’re an idiot for hating it.

    • mcveen

      Towering intellect you must be.

      • John H

        I have three college degrees, piss ant. You have nothing!

  • Drew Page

    There may be another reason liberals like soccer. Liberals like kicking things , like people who don’t agree with them and like cans — down the road.

  • http://blog.cyberquill.com/ Cyberquill

    So let me get this straight:

    For liberals, soccer isn’t about soccer but about proving the superiority of liberals and their global Eurocentric values over U.S.-centric conservatives.

    But the conservative bordedom with soccer is only about the game of soccer — utterly untainted by any political motives whatsoever.

    And how much is that Brooklyn Bridge you’re selling?

    Of course, if liberals hated soccer, conservatives would find it to be the most exciting game ever.

    Personally, I find all ballgames equally boring. As far as excitement, I don’t see the difference between two teams trying to get a ball into little baskets (basketball), into two large goals (soccer), accross a line drawn in the grass (American football), into a little hole in the ground (golf), or if they’re trying to hit it with a wooden stick (baseball).

    • mcveen

      No political motive, soccer is too boring to take seriously. By American sporting standards, it’s a wuss game.

  • Robert Eichel

    Who cares what sports people like? I know some of this is tongue in cheek but why do you spend your life trying to figure out what some group or other likes and how it reflects on the political situation and then make it into a divisive issue.

  • savage24

    I’ll go with Bernie on this one. If you go to a soccer game, watching the fans is more exciting then the game.

  • jazzdrums

    the most sought after and yet the most boring game is a perfect game where one man throws a ball at 95 miles an hour to another man. that game is baseball but we know perfect games are few and not often. I like baseball because when you do get things going every pitch, every out, changes the strategy of the entire game. sacrifice, bunt, steals, hit and runs, etc…and these games happen everyday when you have 500 guys playing 164 games a year

  • Ksp48

    It is very important to illiberals to appear to be superior while thinking that our country is inferior. There is the kind of guy to whom its not good enough to succeed, others must fail. To an illiberal its not even good enough to be right, others must be wrong. My son in law is Spanish. He loves “football” Even he doesn’t want the US to become anything like Spain.

    • Chris Bateman

      With such witty quips like “illiberal,” you’ll be changing hearts and minds faster than you can count. Bravo, super friend, for having the bravery and obvious intelligence to imply that liberals are ill with just one word.

  • rs724503

    I’m no fan of soccer, but please, let’s not make enjoyment of an individual sport a political issue. My dad loves soccer but that doesn’t make him a liberal and in fact, he’s no liberal.

    Though, I agree with Bernie on 90% of the reasons for why we shouldn’t like soccer.

  • gold7406

    How many Cubans have left their country to come to this country to play professional soccer?

  • Josh

    The first thought that crossed my mind after reading the article’s title: “They like it because America loses.”

    After reading the article here, including the liberal take on it, I think “superiority” is certainly the keyword. They may be tickled pink that America and all its usual bravado has adopted a game they can’t win. Winning would just be more white male supremacist patriarchal domination over those poor and underprivileged victims of our oppression. I don’t buy the “learning” and “just another nation” crap so much as I believe they’re overjoyed that we lose. Not that we have one less thing some random American can brag about, or that it makes us appear equal, but that someone else puts us in our place. They love to see their nation lose, IMO.

    America sucks at soccer. Every World Cup I can remember, some of my friends are always thrilled to watch it, but don’t really speak about winning — as in even wanting to win, not just pointing out that we suck (and, yes, most are typically rather progressive individuals, though I never thought about it that way before). When the Olympics roll around and the NBA trots out its latest incarnation of the Dream Team, my b-ball-loving friends and me all root for the USA. We’re #1, baby! We’re gonna dunk on the world!

    But that could be because we all know America sucks at soccer but pwns at basketball.

    It never even crossed my mind before that these different reactions might be ideological.

    In fact, even my friends and family who like basketball and who love the NFL, etc, still want the USA to win at soccer. And they might like it in a roundabout way. But we all realize it’s like taking the 50th-best b-ball country and thinking they’re going to beat NBA All-Stars in the Olympics. No. That one-in-a-million ship has sailed.

    I don’t know if I totally agree with it being strictly political. Though for the people you cite, it appears to me that they’re the participation trophy types, not the championship ring types. And if one is a progressive individual who believes America should be just another country rather than aiming to be a superior sampling*, then I suppose soccer would a sport they’d love.

    *I don’t think we have been collectively, though I love the idea of trying to be. A lot of sports, maybe, and attitude and effort in some regards, but we’re too scarred up historically to claim any type of moral superiority over anyone but the worst offenders.

    • Nicky Billou

      Bud, the US. Is going to win a World Cup. Klinsman is a winner, and he is bringing that mentality to the team.

      And Clint Dempsey is one tough SOB. He played the first game with a broken nose, and scored the winning goal.

      Go play a game Josh. You’ll experience how magnificent it is.

      • Josh

        I played as a little kid. But I didn’t like the atmosphere. It was very much like, “Oh, you’re all winners here!” Games would end in a tie. They might get called if one player twisted an ankle. There wasn’t really anything in it for you if you did win.

        Nah. I’m from a football family. My uncle played halfback for the Terps. My father was the last county QB (’68) to win a district title, and would have played at the collegiate level had he not broken his throwing arm. I came up on football. Played a little baseball (a pretty bad pitcher), and I could shoot the lights out at basketball (but no hops or defense). But soccer — it never struck me as anything more than slightly less organized phys ed.

    • rs724503

      It sounds like you have some friends that are fair weather fans. Those sort of folks always annoyed me.

    • BarryG

      In 8 years America will be winning at soccer. What then?

      • Josh

        My memory isn’t that great, so I don’t know how we’ll handle it in 8 years. I’m taking a screen of this, but by the time 2 years pass, I’ll have no idea what it’s about, much less 8.

        Though I greatly disagree with you. 8 years = 2 World Cups, right? I can’t see it happening.

        What’s changing in America that would enable us to even compete equally, much less win?

  • Angel Pradhan
  • Brian Stover

    Why must everything be political?
    Hillary isn’t president yet.

  • Nicky Billou

    What’s all this mumbo jumbo about the political implications of liking soccer? You are going to dislike soccer because some leftist pundits like it? That’s dumb! How about you actually go play a game, and then decide whether or not you like it?

    For the record, all my soccer loving buddies are right wingers, like me. Soccer operates in the free market in Europe, unlike the over regulated NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL. Soccer is a sport that rewards merit and effort, and you gotta bust your butt, and like real life, it might still not be enough.

    Before you go bad mouthing the beautiful game, go learn something about it!

    • Tim Ned

      Ok Nicky, Bernie doesn’t like soccer. But he probably wouldn’t have dedicated an opinion about it if it wasn’t for the CNN commentators stupid remarks.

      • Bernie

        Tim

        EXACTLY!

        • rdgeorge

          Fine.
          I’m English, love football (soccer is a much more recent name), completely free market believing libertarianism leaning AND love the USA. Love the NFL, like Baseball, loathe basketball. Best game on earth – Rugby Union.
          (Incidentally many of the great things about the US were created by freedom loving Englishmen) :-)))))

          • Tim ned

            Last trip to London for a seminar and I was talking to some Brit’s asking them where I could buy a Manchester United Jersey. Got a look from the four of them that told me I was in big trouble. They were all City fans and one used to play for them. Fortunately they told me where I could buy a sweatshirt and I showed up the following day with City shirt. Problem solved.

  • Nicky Billou

    As a right wing, masculine man’s man, I respectfully disagree with Mr. Goldberg. Soccer is the best sport in the world. It’s awesome exercise, and it is one thing that people all over the world love and participate in.

    What’s wrong with that?

    And you gentlemen who proclaim hockey players are tougher than soccer players are full of caca. As a Canadian who has played both sports I can tell you soccer players are as tough as any hockey player.

    • Josh

      Yeah. Nothing like watching a soccer player get brushed over his thigh by another guy’s shorts before falling down in agony, screaming and pleading for help. Maybe they’re physically tough; I can’t make that call. But they seem to be mental crybabies. Always looking for some cheap out.

      Don’t worry, though; that’s not exclusive to soccer. NBA players are starting to adopt that same nonsense via the flop. The league fines NBA guys for it here. I’m not sure how MLS handles it.

      For toughness, I go to the NFL. The biggest, fastest, strongest athletes there are. Any soccer player who’s a real competitor and worth his salt hopes he can get picked up as a placekicker by the one true sports league on the planet.

      • brickman

        Arsenal’s Theo Walcott is as fast as anyone in the NFL.

        • Josh

          I’m more than willing to take your word for that. I don’t keep up with soccer that much in the USA, and I don’t really know a thing at all about “football” in that part of the world (beyond knowing a few Arsenal fans who get rather rowdy about their boys).

          Though I would be willing to make a $100 prop bet with you if we could ever convince Walcott to champion for us. Maybe see if he can really keep up on an NFL setting with full pads? And maybe seeing if random NFL guy can keep up with him on the pitch?

          • brickman

            Walcott has been timed at 10.6 sec for 100m, he’s not the fastest player. Arjen Robben was recently timed at 23 mph while dribbling a ball when he scored a goal against Spain in this World Cup. This after running for over an hour.

            Marvell Wynne a US player is even faster 10.3 for 100m . He’s not a prominent player . If the name looks familiar, his father was a center fielder for the Pirates and Padres in the 1980s.

            I was a high school soccer player in addition to practise we used to run 40 laps around the football field every day. Maybe 8 miles. Every once in a while the football coach would have his players run laps. I know they had pads on but most couldn’t run 5 laps. We used to run around them in circles as they ran mocking them. I will admit that if they would have caught us ,we would have been in trouble. But they never did.

          • Josh

            Well, if the object is just to run, then the fastest flat-out runner has it. To that end, Bolt would probably smoke the lot with room to spare.

            Sports speed, of course, is something different. It’s a combination of the ability to cut, to run with gear, to run after contact, to run through contact, to run a route/cover a route, to evade, to defend, etc.

            Maybe a guy like Chris Johnson doesn’t win in a straightaway, but I’m betting that on equal footing on respective fields of play, when sport is actually involved, an NFL guy in today’s climate is able to stand superior to athletes from other sports.

            To your comment above about Superstars and OJ winning and such: Even bench-warming players in today’s NFL are superior athletic specimens to the Simpsons and Walkers of yesteryear. Though that might be true with soccer stars as well; maybe today’s players are fitter and faster and fiercer than they were some three decades ago. I’m not qualified to judge that side of the fence — but I am very interested in seeing it play out IRL.

          • brickman

            To sprint after running 10 miles in the Brazilian rainforest in the 119th minute of a game with no huddles, no TV timeouts, no 25 seconds of every minute hearing Payton yelling “Omaha” while standing waiting for the ball to snapped. And yes, soccer players are way more muscular than in past times.

          • Josh

            You might be right. Controlling that ball, evading defenders, and getting from A to B takes some skill, grit, and some cojones. It take superior athletic skill.

            Though let’s see Messi get hit by a 250-pound linebacker running in full gear at speeds that 90% of soccer guys run while wearing shorts. After which, two 300-pounders land on him, grab his junk, hit his ribs, smoosh his face — and then repeat it all again 20 more times.

            If random soccer guy can handle two of those, then they have a new level of respect from me.

            NFL guys might not be running 10 miles for insane amounts of time before having to go all-out in crunch time, but soccer guys also aren’t involved in the equivalent of repeated violent car crashes with men the size of port-a-johns.

            Manning even being able to yell is amazing. Those freaks on the defensive end split his spine apart. And he’s definitely bottom shelf when it comes to NFL athletic skill…but Mount Rushmore for toughness.

          • brickman

            And I will admit that the NFL has great athletes. That’s because you can get by on athletic ability only( read about Johnny Lam Jones). In other sports you have to acquire skills too. That’s why Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders could be Hall of Fame level football players but were never the equal of John Kruk(“Lady don’t call me an athlete, I’m a ballplayer) on the Diamond.

      • Nicky Billou

        Dude, that’s a fair point. Way too much diving by the forwards. Everyone hates it, me included. But look at Neymar, broken vertebrae. I hurt my thumb 2 weeks ago in a game, took a shot from point blank range. I have broken a wrist and a hand, torn my hamstring, ripped ligaments, all from playing soccer.

        But like or disliking soccer is not a political thing. Bernie should know better.

        And I love the game. I always will. And I am rooting for Germany this World Cup!

  • EddieD_Boston

    Christopher Hayes’ of the world need a sport to play too.

  • Tim Ned

    I think Bernie the Germans must have read you column.

  • EddieD_Boston

    If you were in high school who do you think would win the fight between the hockey players and the soccer players? The End.

    • rdgeorge

      In the US that would work but not elsewhere … Football is not a wussies game everywhere.

  • EddieD_Boston

    Wussies play soccer. The End.

  • smorkingapple

    So soccer blows because it just might make people actually care about more than themselves and their country. God the demographic tsunami can’t come fast enough.

  • Chris Geary

    I’m not a huge soccer fan, but I do enjoy watching it on occasion. In support of Bernie’s point, though, one thing that’s always bothered me about soccer is that the way its officiated rewards flopping–which, to me, is basically what liberalism is all about. The law (refs, in soccer) seems to care only when someone is “injured,” which, of course, induces people to fake injury when they are fouled, instead of encouraging them to carry on as best they can despite having been fouled. Liberalism, like soccer officiating, is all about rewarding the squeaky wheel.

    • Footballsocks

      I agree with just about everything you say about flopping, which is bad for the game and its image. I hate it when a referee gets suckered enough that the game just plunks around from set-piece to set-piece. But every sport has some version of this, NBA basketball being Exhibit A (though they’re trying to clean this up with fines – a great idea).

      • Josh

        The flopping epidemic in the NBA is relatively new, and they’re doing a good job at monitoring and punishing the offenders — Silver better than Stern thus far. Even superstars are being fined for the flop, whereas Stern was hit-or-miss on holding stars accountable for anything.

        What the NBA needs is to clean up its officiating. If you’re an NBA fan, and I said, “Referees call the game differently for superstars,” I’m guessing that you’d agree with that (could be wrong), and I’m guessing that most people not only agree with that, but that they’ve come to expect the game to work like that. It’s just something that’s part of the game.

        IMHO, different treatment for different players led to players who typically don’t get calls attempting to gain attention by putting on a dramatic showing. The issue, of course, is that big-name players picked it up as well, and now if a D-Wade throws his head back, with the suspected blow missing by 29 inches, there’s an immediate foul called in his favor.

        The NBA is getting worse than soccer in the sense that the game is losing all its physicality. When I came up watching the game in the ’80s, the Bad Boy Pistons, Bird’s Celtics, Johnson’s Lakers, etc, would play very physical games, and you didn’t have people needing to sit 34 minutes due to foul trouble. Today’s game has been forced into a perimeter-first, foul-happy, fast-break contest that lasts 45 minutes longer due to foul shots and flagrant reviews.

        So I hope it does get cleaned up across the board. With the way free agency allows players to build teams of superheroes now, and given that these stars are always zebra favorites, the NBA will be unwatchable in a decade at its current pace.

  • Real Men Use Their Hands

    Every four years, we hear that soccer “has arrived”, yet a few weeks later, it meekly disappears again. When the biggest selling point of a sport’s best players in the world is that they are so much better at completing passes to each other than those less talented, count me out.

    • Footballsocks

      You mean, like NFL quarterbacks and receivers?

  • Footballsocks

    Sorry, Bernard: on this one, you’re as completely full of it as any of the tired, predictable, lazy blowhards of the pundit class trying to score easy snark points over the past month by equating politics with taste in sporting events. (If you really don’t like Ann Coulter, then for heaven’s sake, don’t imitate her.) I can’t stand, and have never supported, Barack Obama or his policies. And anyone looking at my entire voting record since 18 years of age would recognize someone about as far right and red meat as you can get. I also happen to like watching football played at a high level in just about any code, and that includes American football and soccer, my two favorite sports, in that order.

    If you actually took about two minutes to get to know just the most superficial basics of the backgrounds of Clint Dempsey or Tim Howard (not to mention on-field heroics, leadership and work ethic), you’d begin to understand just how far off-base you just might be.

  • Kathie Ampela

    Ah, Bernie, I can’t worry about existential threats to America under every rock, I just can’t do it, my head hurts as it is. If soccer sucks, the free market will decide and adjust accordingly. From what I heard only 30% of the country was following the World Cup so who cares? I think its a phenonmenon of cable TV…with 1,200 channels on most cable systems, they have to offer SOMETHING, even boring stuff.

  • Steve Fair

    I suppose I get Bernie’s point. Sort of like how conservatives are more attracted to talk radio. No debate. One way conversations. Propaganda.

    • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

      Are you describing conservative radio or the mainstream media?

      • Steve Fair

        Conservative radio, of course.

        • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

          … and not the politicians who keep saying the debate is over, and that the scandals are all phony, right? And certainly not a media who parrots that sentiment, right?

          • Steve Fair

            Or the blowhards who keep screaming “SCANDAL” but somehow never provide any proof of wrongdoing or illegality. It’s modern day Third Reich “Big Lie” tactics by the right.

          • chuck.tatum

            Steve fair did it John Daley. Didn’t take long, either. Went pretty fast into the Hitler dodge.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Oh, I know.

          • Steve Fair

            Still waiting for that proof of scandal.

          • chuck.tatum

            It’s above.
            Still waiting for that example of an American team sport that it’s outcome was “FIXED”.

          • Josh

            2010 NBA Finals – Celtics V Lakers.

            Fixed! Fixed! Fixed!

          • chuck.tatum

            citation needed

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Serious question: Do you watch the news? Something besides MSNBC and the Daily Show, I mean. Because if you still believe, by now, that there hasn’t been a plethora of proof showing wrong-doing on all of these scandals, you truly are drowning in the Kool-aid.

          • Steve Fair

            Please provide one example of proof of wrongdoing by the Obama Adminstration. Just One.

          • chuck.tatum

            Wrongdoing by team Obama-
            “You get to keep your doctor. Period. You get to keep your health care plan. Period.”
            He knew this was not true but wanted ACA passed regardless.
            Ambassador Stevens pleaded for more security for months. He’s now dead. And so are 3 other “What difference does it make” Americans.
            Told Valerie Jarrette to go on the shows and blame a video instead of it being a 9/11 planned event. Then to divert attention from one of his latest scandals had the ringleader in Benghazi arrested months after they knew who and where he was.
            Thousands of lost emails between IRS, Lois Lerner and the WH.
            That’s four off the top of my head.

          • Steve Fair

            How do you KNOW that Obama knew that wasn’t true? How do you know that wasn’t what he was told by his healthcare experts? It was the GOP Congress that refused funding for increased security at US Embassies. And how come we didn’t hear anything from the right about “scandals” when 13 US embassies were attacked under the Bush Administration and 54 Americans were killed? What proof do you have that Obama knew where the Benghazi perp was the whole time? What evidence do you have that Lerner and the White House were in communication. NONE. You are a rightwing CLOWN.

          • chuck.tatum

            Lerner visited the WH many times. I could refute and explain much more but you will not learn.
            I am so sorry for you. Obama could heal the planet, recede the oceans and cure the world if only the Republicans would let him.
            Good luck to you oppressed victim.

          • Steve Fair

            AN OUTRIGHT LIE. Prove Lerner visited the White House. You clowns are pathetic.

          • chuck.tatum

            “How do you KNOW that I knew that wasn’t true?”- Steve Fair

          • Steve Fair

            BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO PROOF OF HER VISITING THE WHITE HOUSE. If you do produce it here.

          • Tim Ned

            We can ask her but she will plead the fifth!

          • Tim Ned

            “How do you KNOW that Obama knew that wasn’t true?”
            Ok you win. He’s incompetent.

          • Steve Fair

            And Reagan was incompetent because he didn’t know about Iran-Contra. And Bush was incompetent because he didn’t know that Iraq didn’t have nukes. I gotcha.

          • Tim Ned

            Even though the detract from the subject matter let me educate you.
            “And Reagan was incompetent because he didn’t know about Iran-Contra.”

            Watch Reagans last speech where he explained his failures on Iran-Contra and apologized to the nation or read some of the books about him that addressed his failure. Iran-Contra was investigated that Reagan supported.

            “And Bush was incompetent because he didn’t know that Iraq didn’t have nukes.”

            Let me correct you here; first it was Weapons of Mass Destruction. And a thorough investigation proved that this specific point of the hundreds of pages submitted to the UN Security Council did not prove to be the threat the intelligence community stated it was. Let me interrupt this, a conclusive bipartisan investigation accepted by both parties concluded the same.

            Back to my incompetent statement which was in response to your comment on Obama not knowing that many people would lose their health care. It is clear and reported by many news organizations including Obama’s favorite, NBC, that a grandfather plan existed that would not include millions of Americans. Do your homework.

          • Steve Fair

            We know Saddam had chemical weapons. Bush Sr. had the bill of sale. But Condi claimed that the smoking gun could become a “mushroom cloud”. That certainly suggests nukes. Do YOUR homework.

          • Tim Ned

            UN Security Council Resolution 1441 clearly addresses WMD. You’re clouding you content with your political ideology.

            Conti’s comments pertained to thousand of centrifuges purchased by Saddam and other evidence that clearly indicated he was pursuing a nuclear program. The investigation after the war found many unused and rotting in warehouses. Again another honest investigation.

          • Steve Fair

            Sigh, Rightwingers are immune to facts. http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/08/wbr.iraq.claims/

          • Tim Ned

            See my comment above. I believe I clearly answered this. The intelligence was wrong. Liberals know it; conservatives know it, and GWB admitted it. When does Obama step up and admit his issues on health care. The White house is clearly appending his statement “Family plans will see a decrease of $2500.00 per year”. Now their stating it’s over ten years. Why doesn’t he man up and apologize?

          • Bob Hadley

            “Let me correct you here; first it was Weapons of Mass Destruction. And a thorough investigation proved that this specific point of the hundreds of pages submitted to the UN Security Council did not prove to be the threat the intelligence community stated it was. ”
            First, nuclear weapons are a form of WMD. Pres. G W Bush and his Administration engendered vivid fear that Sadam was on the verge of developing them with delivery systems.
            As for chemical and biological weapons, it was widely (though not exclusively) believed that Sadam had some left from before the first Gulf War. But Pres. G W Bush and his Administration spread fears that Sadam was actively amassing these types of WMD’s.

          • Tim Ned

            Agree to a point. He was also overwhelmingly supported by Congress.

          • Bob Hadley

            I agree. Hillary Clinton and John Kerry and others in Congress who really opposed the invasion but voted that way for political reasons at the time have a black mark on their records.
            Now that I’ve condemned the liberals in Congress for OKing an invasion despite their convictions, will you condemn Pres. G W Bush and his administration for pushing the invasion like used car salesmen? .

          • Tim Ned

            With recent events, yes it is apparent that going into Iraq was a mistake. But my memory at my age is pretty good and I certainly remember Kerry and Clinton on that car lot hawking cars as well.

          • Bob Hadley

            OH, you failed. I was hoping for a true bipartisan moment. I chastised liberal Democrats like John Kerry and Hillary Clinton who I certain really opposed the invasion but voted for it for political viability. I didn’t hedge or qualify my remarks, either.
            Why don’t you now, in a showing of bipartisanship, condemn the Bush Administration for their shameless propaganda campaign to build political and popular support for invading Iraq? Of course, if you don’t agree with my statement, that would explain it. But if you were half as critical of the Bush Administration as you are of the Obama Administration, I don’t see how you could disagree with it.
            Even if you thought (and still think) invading Iraq was the right thing to do, you certainly must concede that the Bush Administration tried to shove this down our throats by means of a sell job..
            As for Kerry and Clinton “on that car lot hawking cars,” whatever are you talking about? Neither Kerry nor Clinton, tried to hawk the Iraq invasion. Even if they did, I already condemned their cowardice. Now, how about an unequivocal condemnation of the Bush Administration’s leading role in that. Again, even if you think the end result was just, I don’t see how an honest, informed and reasonably critical-minded person can deny that the process was shameless.

          • Steve Fair
          • Tim Ned

            You are deviating from the point. This link has nothing to do with the millions that were promised they could keep their plan and were cancelled. This is an overall number game. The fact is, and you can look it up, many Americans plans were cancelled. Of course they repurchased plans and in many cases the new plans were high deductibles and higher cost. Again, this goes back to the grandfather plan that was in place and approved by the White House that they know about.

          • Steve Fair

            MILLIONS were cancelled????? That’s an outright LIE.

          • Tim Ned

            you’re in full scale denial: And the employee mandate doesn’t even hit until 2016. If you’re in a employee health plan right now you better start shopping. My agent is telling me our company should see an increase of 40 – 60 percent in 2016. Why do you think they delayed the employee mandate?

            Read it from December 2013 associated press: http://news.yahoo.com/policy-notifications-current-status-state-204701399.html

            Or if you really want to be deflated read this.

            http://www.factcheck.org/2013/10/reality-confronts-obamas-false-promise/

          • Steve Fair

            “For most Americans, the answer is simple: Yes, you can keep your plan. The Medicare program hasn’t changed its eligibility threshold; Medicaid has expanded its income limits. And while some firms have moved about 1 million workers to private exchanges, the vast majority of Americans who get coverage through employer-sponsored insurance plans will see no changes in 2014.

            Even people getting “cancellation letters” aren’t necessarily being dropped; in many cases they’re being moved to new plans or presented with alternate options.” http://www.californiahealthline.org/road-to-reform/2013/how-many-people-are-losing-their-plans-under-obamacare-really

          • Tin Ned

            Steve, the subject is not about Medicare. It is about hard working Americans that had plans they liked and were cancelled. Any many were those who voted for Obama.

          • Steve Fair

            Read again. This time slowly Ned, Bob or whatever your name is. “And while some firms have moved about 1 million workers to private
            exchanges, the vast majority of Americans who get coverage through
            employer-sponsored insurance plans will see no changes in 2014.”

          • Tim Ned

            Let’s go back to the beginning of this thread so we can get your facts straight.

            1) You stated that a GOP congress was the blame for reducing security at US embassy’s. I clearly demonstrated to you that in 2010 the Democrats reduced the White House budget dramatically. You switched direction of this subject didn’t you!

            2) You state millions of Americans did not receive cancellation letters on their health insurance. This is untrue as demonstrated in the links I provided you. You’re gasping for info to dispute this fact with totally unrelated links to California health care site. I never disputed that those people could not get new insurance. However, this relates to the statement by Obama that if you like your plan you can keep it stated over 20 times. This is not fact. The replacement plans were not to the vast majority of these peoples liking due to added coverage they do not need, or, they faced higher deductibles and higher cost. These were people that were not dependent for government subsidies or medicare. Who on earth do you believe is paying for the subsidies? It’s the individuals who can afford health care subsidizing the rest.

            3) “the vast majority of Americans who get coverage through employer-sponsored insurance plans will see no changes in 2014.” As I stated, earlier, the employee mandate is delayed until 2016 and I don’t know what your point was to add it here other than for the sake of wasting space. Just wait and see what the costs will do to these plans.

            4) You avoid the thread by bringing up other issues towards Bush. You wanted to know why there was no scandal related to the Embassy attacks during his term. I explained the same can be compared to Clinton. The fact is those attacks under both Clinton and Bush were “Investigated”.

            Any time you get cornered you take the easiest approach which is to change the thread or blame Bush.

          • Steve Fair

            You know, I really have no problem making you look stupid. Over and over. http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/10/10/985191/chaffetz-absolutely-funding-embassy-security/

          • Tim Ned

            You and the left wing loons at Think Progress better look in the mirror. If your warped perception is that a GOP house and senate that reduced the White House security budget is to blame for Benghazi; then based upon this silly notion the following is true:

            The Democratic held house and senate that reduced the 2010 budget recommended by the White House is responsible for the 2010 Peshawar bombings that killed six.

            You are so up this President’s whazoo you can’t see the ridiculous propaganda.

          • Steve Fair

            14 members of the Reagan administration were indicted and 2 of his NSA advisors resigned due to Iran-Contra. Either he was incompetent or he lied.

          • Tim Ned

            I believe the resignations and indictments indicate corruption.
            So back to the question if you like your health care plan you can keep it. Is it lying, incompetency? I see no indictments so I refer to the latter.

          • Tim Ned

            “It was the GOP Congress that refused funding for increased security at US Embassies.”

            This is left wing talking points. Pie in the sky budgets submitted by the White house are often cut. How do you defend the reduction of $142 Million in 2010 to the state department when democrats controlled both the house and senate?

            “And how come we didn’t hear anything from the right about “scandals” when 13 US embassies were attacked under the Bush Administration and 54 Americans were killed?”

            The same answer as to the hundreds that died in Embassy attacks under President Clinton that killed hundreds. Although there have been investigations pertaining to Benghazi, many believe these have been hampered by the White house. The senate intelligence committee stated that this attack was preventable. With the intelligence increase, and sensitivity to appropriately handling warnings since 911, which were evident prior to this attack, the state department and White house did nothing. Further the attack went on for hours.

          • Bob Hadley

            “Ambassador Stevens pleaded for more security for months.”
            Where did you get this? In the month or two leading up to that attack, the general in charge of Northern Africa twice asked Ambassador Steven if he wanted increased security. Both time Ambassador Steven declined.
            Even O’Reilly admitted to as much in an opaque manner.

          • Tim Ned

            Gregory Hicks tells a very compelling story to the contrary Bob.

          • Bob Hadley

            what do you mean by a “compelling story”? What I relayed is a statement of fact. Either it’s true or it’s false or, perhaps, partially true.
            An Orwellian world is rising where facts are opinions and opinions are facts. I don’t if your comment comes from that world.

          • nameless

            Shut up liberal, I wish you would never come back here. You and Steve Fair are idiots and communists who should be executed Rosenberg style. Joseph McCarthy was right and we should executed all of those communists. Fuck you and I wish all liberals would drop dead from cancer, AIDS, or whatever.

          • Bob Hadley

            I just did a search on Gregory Hicks and Benghazi. There was a lot on his testimony regarding the attach itself, but I saw nothing refuting that Ambassador Stevens twice refused beefed up security in the month or so leading up to the attack. Did you actually read my comment?
            I’ve heard from more than one source that Ambassador Stevens was a “man of the people” type of guy who didn’t want much security separating him from the masses.

          • Tim ned

            This WSJ article written by Hicks confirms what you are saying. There is no question that Stevens denied the security offered by General Ham. However Hicks explains the reason. All of Stevens requests went through the state department. Hicks wrote the WSJ article in defense of Ambassador Stevens who is an American hero.

            I read your comment.

            http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304302704579332732276330284

          • Bob Hadley

            “Gregory Hicks tells a very compelling story to the contrary Bob.”

            OK, maybe I misunderstand your point. My initial post in this thread was a counter-point to chuck.tatim, who said that, “Ambassador Stevens pleaded for more security for months.” Are you saying that my point was correct? If so, what was the “compelling story” to the contrary.
            Yes, Ambassador Stevens was a hero. He did some outstanding work. And even assuming Hicks’ testimony was 100% true and correct, that does not even address the point I made.
            Maybe you can help me out here. And remember, I speak for myself. If you’re going to hold me responsible for what others say, then we have nothing to talk about. I don’t pull that bigotry on those I disagree with and I expect the same from those who disagree with me.
            One of the ways we learn is by rational dialogue with those who think differently from us.

          • Bob Hadley

            BTW, I’m not blaming Ambassador Stevens for the attack, if that is what you’re thinking. Blame lies squarely at the feet of the attackers. Do not read into my comments, just read them.

          • Tim Ned

            I didn’t read it that you blamed Ambassador Stevens. The WSJ article confirms that Stevens turned down the request by General Ham as he had no choice as they would not have diplomatic immunity. This sounds to me like an Ambassador thinks first for the safety of the personnel around him versus his own well being. However Hicks last paragraph is very telling. This article confirms that he took the diplomatic approach through Washington and was ignored.

            So Yes:

            Stevens was forced to turn down the offer by Ham;

            And, he was ignored by Washington.

            I did listen to some of Hicks testimony, not all of it. I found him credible. I believe his position and closeness to the Ambassador makes it more compelling to believe what he is saying.

          • Jeff Webb

            Stevens didn’t have the authorization to accept the general’s offer. He declined because he was required to.

            Know who WAS authorized to accept the offer? The very people Stevens had been asking for more security.

          • Bob Hadley

            Where did you get this statement of fact?
            It doesn’t make sense. If he wasn’t authorized to accept the offer, why was the offer made to him and why did he say that he didn’t want beefed up security? And why would he decline the general’s offer for beefed up security at the same time that he ask others for beefed up security?
            It he wanted beefed up security, he would have told the general that he wanted it and ask for his (the general’s) help.

          • Jeff Webb
          • Guest
          • rational38

            There has been no showing of wrong doing involving the White House in any of the alleged scandals. You work for FOX?

          • Tim Ned

            But John, the Kool-aid tastes so good!

          • Walter Peck

            Godwin’s Law

    • chuck.tatum

      Yes, generally speaking radio is a one way form of mass media. If you wish your radio was two way communication (without calling into a particular show), I suggest you seek professional help.
      Oh, does this reply count as debate? That makes your other point false as well.
      Just go outside and stop man-made climate change right now. We conservatives are, as always, counting on you to save the world.

      • Steve Fair

        Wow, this sure was a silly response. Modern technology allows for more than one microphone in a radio studio which could provide for a two sided debate. But I guess that notion is too complicated for the average righty to conceive. LMAO!!!

        • chuck.tatum

          I forgot about more than 1 mic in a studio. You are correct. I think NPR has multiple mics in their radio studios. I remember hearing one show where they kicked one of those voices off the air for good for saying when he boards an airplane and sees a Muslim he has additional concerns. Juan Williams, a black man, a self-described liberal was that regular using that “other” microphone in the studio who was let go by NPR. Is that the type of debate you speak of outside conservative talk radio?

          • Steve Fair

            Yeah, the same Juan Williams who said that blacks should be listening to Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity over Michael Eric Dyson and Cornel West. Williams is a bottom dwelling hustler who has resorted to outright media minstrel act for Fox paychecks. He won’t dare come around any black media figures.

          • chuck.tatum

            “Minstrel act” How tolerant and progressive of opinion you are. Please inform me what a real authentic black person is? Must they all think exactly like you? If so, now we must go back to your complaint that conservatives don’t allow other opinions. Sounds like you won’t tolerate diversity within the black community.
            I wouldn’t recommend anyone watch O’Reilly or Hannity, but Dyson and West? Really? OK, now you’re just funn’n with me. Dyson and West can bamboozle the likes of Bill Maher, but not much anyone else.
            Go read Jason Riley’s (it’s safe, he’s black) new book, Please Stop Helping Us, How liberals are making it harder for us.

          • Steve Fair

            I never mentioned anything about “black authenticity”. Williams will be black until the day he dies. However he has chosen to grin and perform for white rightwingers and talk “about” black people instead of talking “to” us about the things he thinks are so wrong with our community. That’s what black conservatives do. They help white conservatives and bigots feel comfortable in their bigotry. If they had any character at all they would be talking to their people with respect. And as far as this white liberal “help”, sorry, I missed it. I’ve worked since I was 15. So have most of the black people I know. I know how hard that is for someone of your mindset to conceive.

          • Integrity

            You just proved Chuck’s point. QED

          • Steve Fair

            What point was that? That liberals are harming blacks with their benevolence? Or that black conservatives are somehow oppressed. Their both nonsense.

          • Integrity

            I think liberal policies are harming all races. Have you ever considered that you might be the one that is a sellout? QED

          • Steve Fair

            Liberal policies created the American middle class. Have you considered that you might be an idiot?

          • Integrity

            I have considered that I could be wrong. Have you ever considered that you could be wrong? My question was serious. I guess we will have to disagree; I think liberal policies increased the size of the poverty class, and poverty adversely impacts all races. I could be wrong, but after reading many of your posts, I am under the assumption that you believe all Conservatives are racist. If so, I think that you are inherently wrong in that regard. Just curious, does a white or black person have to be liberal in order to be beyond reproach in your eyes? QED

          • Steve Fair

            Well let me give you this to chew on. In 1960, the poverty rate for blacks was 65%. Today it is 25%. The overall poverty rate in the US in 1960 was 22.5%. Today it is 14%. So what are you talking about? And I won’t lie, I think conservatives are essentially racist, greedy bastards and a black conservative is a fool.

          • Integrity

            Perhaps the poverty rate has improved despite liberal policies. You definitely have a jaded view of the world, but I appreciate your honesty. QED

          • Steve Fair

            I have a jaded view of the world? You conservatives swear up and down that blacks don’t work, can’t think for themselves, are too dumb to intuit our own realities and I have a jaded view of the world????? I’ll give you guys kudos for balls though.

          • Integrity

            Based upon your posts, I do think that you have a jaded view. Fiscally speaking, I am definitely a conservative; too bad many of the Republican politicians are not. However, on social issues I am more Libertarian. For example, I have no problem with gay marriage, I don’t believe homosexuals choose to be that way, and I would legalize drugs. For such opinions, I have been called a stupid liberal or words to that effect. In the same manner that you have grouped all conservatives together, I understand why you would find it offensive when some conservatives make stupid stereotypical statements about blacks. As I said previously, I think liberal policies adversely impact all races and I am uninterested in arguments such as, “That race has a disproportionate percentage with this problem compared to others.”

            My office wife is black and she is one of the most brilliant people that I know. My last boss was black and he was the best supervisor that I ever had. Hence, your judgment of me is not accurate. However, our country has some serious issues that need to be addressed and various groups being hypersensitive to any criticism is not helping us to resolve them. I don’t think you are stupid, but I do disagree with many of your views. QED

          • Steve Fair

            ” However, our country has some serious issues that need to be addressed
            and various groups being hypersensitive to any criticism is not helping
            us to resolve them.” Hmmmm. Now which groups are you talking about and what specifically are they “hypersensitive” about? Please answer in detail.

          • Integrity

            LOL. Hypersensitive might be an understatement when it comes to you. QED

          • Steve Fair

            No answer. Not that I expected one. Let’s see. Perhaps you are suggesting that I am “hypersensitive” at being characterized as wanting handouts or being a criminal simply because of my race?

          • Integrity

            Why should I respond to you? You ignored the majority of my post and then took the low road. I have not accused you of wanting handouts or being a criminal, so please don’t project that garbage on me. Last time I checked, all races have been guilty of not only that, but of racism as well. QED

          • Steve Fair

            LMAO. You won’t respond because I have cornered you. An honest answer will reveal you to be a racist which I knew you were all along. Don’t bother responding. No need to proceed with this.

          • Patrick H.

            So in other words, if black conservatives or libertarians have a different opinion than black liberals, they’re just doing if for self interest rather than the fact than they might have the audacity to have a different opinion. Btw, what are your feelings on Bill Cosby, no right winger, had said some of the things that Williams has when it comes to blacks taking personal responsibility. And why should Williams talk to Dyson when you see what Dyson has done to Cosby for bringing up any of the same issues. He attacked Cosby personally along with his personal life and tried to bash an entire group of blacks (the black middle class) along with him.

          • Steve Fair

            Actually you continue to make my point. Cosby specifically attacked “lower economic class” blacks and at least did it in front of a black audience. Williams performs for white racists and makes them comfortable with their racism. Dyson accurately detailed the absurdity of some of Cosby’s claims..ie (Was Civil rights some sort of “deal” blacks made with White America? We could have our freedom as long as we didn’t name our kids Shaniqua and Jabari? Why do you white conservatives get so bent out shape when blacks criticize black conservatives who have no connection with their own people? Don’t YOU criticize white liberals? WTF?

          • Patrick H.

            1. When you say things like “minstrel acts” and “performs”, those are fighting words. And I just don’t understand what makes someone less black or “has no connection with their own people” when they have a different opinion? For crying out loud, aren’t they individuals?

            2. How does Williams make conservatives comfortable with their bigotry?

            3. I’m a not a conservative, I’m a libertarian which is vastly different (That’s another subject though)

            4. I’m refering to how Dyson and other academics brought Cosby’s personal life into the argument instead of sticking to the arguments themselves, saying how he’s not black enough and has done nothing for blacks which is totally wrong.

            5. You seem to have not read anything by Cosby (Read the original speech and read his book with Alvin Poussaint Come On People if you have time).

          • Steve Fair

            1. Oh please. Evidently you haven’t heard (or purposely ignore) the vile and profane terms in which black conservatives talk about their own people for the pleasure of white bigots. Thomas Sowell, Jessie Lee Peterson and Mychal Massie for instance sound like white supremacists. YES, they are individuals and the have the right to perform their acts. And I have the right to criticize them. 2. What distinguishes a libertarian from a conservative besides wanting drug legalization? 3. I not only heard Cosby’s speech but have a youtube copy of it on my hardrive. It was disgusting.

          • Patrick H.

            Let me start with #3, I’m glad you have heard the speech, but that said, I still think you should read the book he co-authored with Alvin Poussaint to get a fuller views. I don’t think the speech was disgusting as was off-the cuff and not in depth. 2.) It would take a long article to describe them, but libertarians generally wanted legalized drugs, sex-work, gambling, want the government out of marriage, want the government of education, and are more in favor of open borders than conservatives are. There’s more to that, but I would run out of space writing it.

            As for #1, you are certainly within your right to criticize them, I never said that. I just criticized the terms you used like minstrels and acting. I wish you wouldn’t use the word perform though because they probably actually believe what they say whether you agree or disagree.

          • Steve Fair

            I don’t really think you understand the real dynamic here. If they really believed what they said and were truly concerned with the uplift and well being of black America, why don’t they take their message to black people? Why don’t Sowell, Williams or Kevin Jackson go on black media or in front of black audiences and give their critiques on what’s wrong with blacks? You seem to think blacks are stupid. We see exactly what the game is here. They know in front of white conservative audiences they will be hailed as “courageous” and “independent” and if they go in front of blacks they will be staunchly challenged and rebuffed on their often fraudulent assertions.

          • Patrick H.

            No, I don’t think blacks are stupid, I don’t deny they face more obstacles than whites have had in the past and still do today. But I’m just saying there’s more than enough room for diversity of opinion among all races. And I see the dynamic, the assimilation/integration vs. segregation. For better or worse, some blacks prove their worth by assimilating into white society while other blacks take a more segregated approach. As for black media, could you give me examples of what you would consider “black” media? Many black liberals complain about terms like “black leadership” or “black community”, so I am surprised that you would use a term like “black media”.

          • Steve Fair

            Patrick I believe your heart is in the right place but you are grossly uninformed about black folks. First off, assimilation is a survival tool for any black with a job given the cultural ocean that we swim in. Despite the ravings of the rightwing the overwhelming majority of African Americans are working to middle class, law abiding productive citizens. That’s what made Cosby’s rants so offensive. The poverty and illiteracy rate for blacks in 1960 was upwards of 65% Today it;s less than a quarter. SO don’t act like all of a sudden there is all this dysfunction without any progress. Secondly there are black (urban contemporary) radio stations in every major metropolitan area in the nation which host commentary segments dealing with issues affecting the community. Bill Clinton and Barack Obama found time to talk to Joe Madison, Roland Martin, Warren Ballentine and Bev Smith. But black conservatives won’t go near black media. And they HAVE been invited. But they will gleefully go on Hannity, Imus, O’Reilly etc….and talk ABOUT black people. And you don’t see anything wrong with that? You can’t understand why blacks would think they are sellouts?

          • Steve Fair

            Patrick, I believe your heart is in the right place but you are grossly uninformed about black folks. Assimilation is a survival tool for any black with a job given the cultural ocean that we swim. Despite the ravings of the right, the overwhelming majority of black Americans are working to middle class, law abiding citizens. As far as black media, there are black (urban contemporary) radio stations in every metropolitan community in this country that have commentary segments dealing with issues important to the community. Leaders like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama made time to speak with Bev Smith, Joe Madison, Warren Ballentine and Roland Martin. But black conservatives never seem to. And they have been invited. But they will rush to grin and cheese for Hannity, O’Reilly and Limbaugh. And you can’t see anything wrong with that?

          • Patrick H.

            By the way, I’m not criticizing liberals blacks for criticizing black conservatives, that’s fine. What I’m criticizing is when you refer to them as Uncle Toms, house negros, lawn jockeys, Aunt Jeminas, and other names that signify traitors. They’re not traitors for having different opinions.

          • Steve Fair

            First of all, let me challenge your premise. Are you suggesting that most blacks DON’T take personal responsibility? Please answer. Cosby may be a hero to white conservatives but most blacks, include most middle class blacks like myself, saw his attacks on the black poor as mean spirited, convoluted and elitist. But at least Cosby said what he had to say about black people TO black people. Williams and most other black conservatives perform for white bigots which makes them sellouts. This isn’t complicated,

          • Patrick H.

            1. I don’t suggest that most blacks don’t take personal responsibility. However, I do think a significant number of them have fallen prey to the gangster culture.

            2. Oh really? He may have been cranky, but his heart was in the right place and he spoke out of love. They weren’t mean spirited, convoluted, and elitist. What’s so elist about asking parents to be parents and kids to get an education? I think it’s a darn shame that what was once considered common sense has now become so controversial. What he said is nothing like one’s grandparents would say to you. No doubt this could apply across racial lines as well, it’s just common sense.

            3. Juan Williams is not a conservative. He supports the ACA, was against the Iraq War and the foreign policies of the Bush administration, is favor in of immigration reform, and has argued against various scandals the republicans have come up with.

          • Steve Fair

            1. What is a “significant number” in your opinion? 25% 50% And by what evidence or data to you come to that conclusion? 2. Cosby completely ignores the dysfunctional and oppressive atmosphere of the inner city where he directs his tirades. “If the rigidly segregated education system continues to fail poor blacks
            by failing to prepare their children for the world of work, then
            admonitions to ‘stay in school’ may ring hollow.In suburban
            neighborhoods, there are $60-million schools with state-of-the-art
            technology, while inner city schools desperately fight for funding for
            their students” Michael Eric Dyson. 3. Juan Williams is a first rate HUSTLER. He earns his Fox paychecks by posturing as a liberal on national and global policitcal issues but remains in the good graces of conservatives by endorsing their skewed and often bigoted views on race, I’ll ask again. Why won’t Williams or any other black conservative come before black audiences and say what they have to say about race. Because they KNOW they are frauds who are hustling for white conservative approval and money.

          • Patrick H.

            Cosby doesn’t ignore the atmosphere, he just pushes on lower class blacks to succeed despite it. He’s trying to get rid of the apathy and wants them to take control of their lives and fight back against the system. You need to read beyond the media coverage or what is said about Cosby and what Cosby actually says.

          • Steve Fair

            Why do you keep suggesting that I didn’t hear what Cosby said? I heard it and I was repulsed by it. Yelling at poor blacks to do better without recognizing the obstacles and challenges that they face is non productive. He attacked what they name their kids and how they talk. How the hell can Cosby expect a kid born to a teenage mother in Anacostia, DC to talk like a Shakespearean scholar. It’s ridiculous. Nothing short of a Marshal Plan for the inner city will change conditions. The US government lifted the urban white ethnic out of poverty with education and housing programs unavailable to blacks. I suggest you read Ira Katznelson’s great book “When Affirmative Action was White” and “Levittown” by David Kushner to find out the real story of the urban ghetto and the “pulling up from the bootstraps” myth.

          • Steve Fair

            Why do they keep deleting my posts?

    • Walter Peck

      I suggest you (everyone really) read Herbert Marcuse’s essay “Repressive Tolerance.”

    • Tim Ned

      Conservatives have conservative radio and liberals of thinkprogress, media matters, and the MSM. Check Mate.

  • chuck.tatum

    Soccer…not just a fraud sport. It is in actuality a fraud perpetrated on the fans. It’s more fixed than a Chicago mayoral election.
    Watch HBO Real Sports this month on the admitted game fixing. Even at World Cup level.

    • Steve Fair

      No fixing in American sports, huh? Baseball? Huh?

      • chuck.tatum

        Are you going back over 100 years to the Chicago Black Sox? Are you including “pro” wrestling?
        Yes, there has been personal cheating with steroids, corked bats, pine tar, etc..
        Inform me of what professional team sport was caught throwing a game in the past 50 years? The HBO report says the throwing of soccer games worldwide is rampant. I’m listening.

        • Steve Fair

          And if you think that MLB owners, managers as well Bud Selig weren’t fully aware of the juicing and corked bats then you’re not living in the real world.

          • chuck.tatum

            That’s NOT throwing the game. Soccer refs and players were GUARANTEEING a loss to the bookies, not just an illegal advantage. What soccer very often does is throw the game. What professional US sports team has thrown a game in the past 50 years?

          • Steve Fair

            It is gaining a competitve advantage through artificial and illegal means. You’re nitpicking. Cheating is cheating.

          • chuck.tatum

            I’ll accept your feeble attempt at saving some face here.
            Anyone reading our volley knows the difference between cheating for an advantage and a guaranteed loss.

          • Josh

            I replied above before I read this exchange. Yes, there is a large–and quite objective–difference in attempting to receive a competitive advantage through manipulation, and in intentionally losing.

            All the juicing in the world, an entire dugout of corked bats, and a pitcher with enough pine tar to pave a parking lot cannot guarantee a win. But you can pretty much guarantee a loss, in any sport that I can think of.

            The potential of throwing games is unforgivable by even baseball, whereas cheating for higher averages, more strikeouts and deeper home runs was actually to the league’s advantage. That’s why Pete Rose is banned to this day, yet Mark McGwire is back.

            And it doesn’t even boil down to integrity. It boils down to money. League-overlooked cheating enhances ratings and brings in more money. Game-throwing kills interest and places money elsewhere.

            But I’m not sure what you guys were arguing about, really, besides the seeming fact that Steve loves to give a quick once-over before adding a contrary statement.

  • scott autry

    I remember reading once that the Mayan ballgame used to go on forever. Then, I read somewhere that the winning team (or its captain) was sometimes sacrificed to the gods – much like the Vikings would sacrifice the strongest warrior or horse or offer the best of the first harvest for the gods.

    I can understand why the Mayan players tried so hard not to score or were satisfied with 1-0 matches – but – today?

    Maybe if we could get liberal elites to play the old Mayan game, we could weed some out? I’d wait days for a match to finish to see that happen…

    But, let me explain something to the rest of the world:

    If/when liberal elites do come to dominate the rest of the world, you had better get rid of your religion, agree to burn your hijabs in the street as a form of protest like they burned their bras, —- basically —- prepare to bow your knees at the alter of liberalism – or be ostracized and demonized…

    They have proven in the US, they will champion your right to believe what you want – only as much as it allows them to justify propagating their own thought into more and more social institutions – until they reach a tipping point – after which, they shut people they don’t like out and stop arguing for “free speech” but “their speech”…

    Anyone in the world who truly believes the American liberal elite would accept them with open arms – even if you totally disagree with their socio-politics, doesn’t understand American society…

    • Josh

      One thing that I have often postulated may stop the liberal elites you speak of, whom I refer to as “progressives” of some sort and not just regular liberals, is the fact that they’re cannibals.

      I’ll give a real-world example that I was part of, that’s ongoing, and that’s on record (ad nauseum) for anyone who wants to see what I mean:

      The skeptic community started to take off in a huge way soon after YouTube become a smash hit. We’re talking millions upon millions of people, which in a nation that describes itself as roughly 80+% religious is a gargantuan number. As one might imagine, the majority of these skeptics were liberal-minded people. Some big-government guys, some environmentalists, some pacifists, and, of course, some progressive elites.

      It only took about a year before the progressives of the group started to cannibalize everyone. Instead of going after organized religion’s push to teach Young-Earth Creationism in schools, and rather than trying to spread the message about skeptic candidates for public office rather than only religious people, these progressives started movements like Atheism-Plus (A+).

      The goal of this particular group (and similar groups, though I’m rambling on enough as is) was to attack the skeptic community, not to debate the religious community and other things considered by skeptics to be mysticism and suchlike. The A+ guys created their mission statement that claimed they were atheists plus feminists, plus social justice advocates, plus this, that and the other. And you had to be those things, or they clearly stated that you would be their enemy and not welcome.

      They became totalitarians. They demanded that all skeptics to attend their conferences, to use their blogs, to comment on their channels, etc, act only in a fashion that A+ agreed on! This included what you could or couldn’t say at a conference, what you could or couldn’t buy or sell, what you could or couldn’t write for public consumption, how you had to identify yourself in public even!

      These progressive we-know-what’s-best-for-you elitists almost instantly seized their opportunity to go full-on totalitarian. They did this to other people who were liberals, who were atheists, who were against right-wing conservatives, who voted for Obama. They did this to their own people.

      And it’s not like everyone else just sat back and let it happen. There’s a huge battle now between the two factions. Regular liberals loathe these progressive elites, but they have as much traction for complaint in MSM as conservatives do. Less, even, because at least conservatives have Fox and talk radio. Ordinary liberals have only a few independent outlets. The big outlets are progressive.

      So, when a conservative sees these progressives get something changed in one of one thousand schools, or has one billboard up for every ten thousand, just remember that you’re only getting the light version. Before it’s over, these groups may take each other out.

      But I agree 100%, and have hordes of evidence to form that conclusion: These progressives schmoes will not welcome anyone with open arms. They’re totalitarian at heart. They have attacked figures like Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss, two men a lot of conservatives see as exceedingly liberal and anti-right-wing. They have created new standards of what “rape” is. They have invented this nonsense called “cultural appropriation,” which only seeks to paint everything white people do as theft of another culture, while another culture that does the same is just a victim of white oppression.

      It’s just nuts on that side of the fence. I don’t think a lot of Bernie’s readers know even 1% of how crazy they truly are and how willing they are to chew off their own appendages if it means they get to tell you what to do with yours.

      They’re scary enough to fear, but they’re also so incredibly power hungry that they might not make it to the main stage at even half strength.

  • rational38

    I really hope this level of ignorance was tongue in cheek.

    • Steve Fair

      I’m betting Goldberg was dead serious.

      • rational38

        I hope I am right, but….

  • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

    Never would I have guessed that this would turn into such a controversial column. lol.

    • RickonhisHarleyJohnson

      When Steve Fair contributes, lawn mowing can be controversial.

      • Josh

        You do have the right idea, though. Keep your statements short enough that he can read them even if he tries to look away. I made the mistake of actually typing thought-out comments before, which led to more strawmen and redundant questions than I could count on two hands.

      • chuck.tatum

        “When Steve Fair contributes, lawn mowing can be controversial.”
        Thank you for the first laugh of my day! It took me a few hours to learn this about Steve Fair. Lesson learned.

  • billy k

    Bernie, I am red blood conservative and love soccer, coached the sport at the high school level for many years. It is a shame that Mr. Beinart feels compelled to draw political conclusions from a soccer tournament! Why can’t sport just be sport? Properly understood soccer is incredibly exciting and dramatic, even 0-0 can be a classic.

    • rational38

      I have no idea why this is political. Are so many conservatives so small minded that because the rest of the world likes something, we must hate it. Glad to hear from a conservative who can judge the game on its own terms.

  • http://www.raulalbertohurtado.com Raúl Hurtado

    You are correct in pointing
    out one of the many silly manner liberals try to cozy up the rest of the world
    – soccer.

    BUT, it’s not soccer’s
    fault. Soccer is a beautiful and passionate game. You just have no feeling for
    any of the teams, players, history – that makes all the difference.

    You want to put people to
    sleep – try baseball – half the players are overweight. Even American football,
    is boring the first time you see it and have no background on teams and
    players. ¿Basketball? How freaking tedious is that – you score, now I score,
    now you score, now I…. the looser is whoever loses the rhythm.

    It’s
    quite alright for America to come late to soccer. It won’t make us morally
    superior or inferior.

  • chuck.tatum

    Bernie never even touched the issue (in this column) about the throwing of games by players, coaches and officials. It is huge and ignored by the world in the name of cohesion.
    However, when it comes to corruption in U.S. politics, the rest of the world can’t teach us a thing.

  • brickman

    You just don’t like a sport where you can root for America.

    • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

      Huh?

      • brickman

        Bernie has a made a career selling books that divide America. Most of the columns on this site are lists of people that the author’s don’t like. Most Americans were united in rooting for the US team. Those large crowds at Soldier Field, KC, and at the Brooklyn Bridge were rooting for America. No wonder Bernie didn’t like it. It’s bad for his business.

        • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

          >>Bernie has a made a career selling books that divide America.

          Divide America? Exposing media bias is dividing America? Are you being serious or just liberal?

          >>Most of the columns on this site are lists of people that the authors don’t like.

          No they’re not. Most of the columns are of problems we identify and choose to write about. When we include in those columns the people we believe are causing or perpetuating those problems, that’s not simply creating a “list of people we don’t like.” Such an assertion makes you sound like a hack. Making cases, criticizing actions, defending views, and putting forth ideas would only sound like list-building to someone who doesn’t like what’s being written.

          >>No wonder Bernie didn’t like it. It’s bad for his business.

          So you believe that Bernie’s anti-American, and that conservatives are suddenly drawn to anti-Americanism? Let me give you some advice, brickman: If you’re trying to convince people that you’re a moderate, stop parroting the trash that comes out of Chris Matthews’ mouth.

          • brickman

            Wasn’t one of Bernie’s books in list form?

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Oh brother.

            You’re referring to “110 People Who Are Screwing Up America”, and it’s not simply a list. It’s a cultural narrative that cites the actions of specific people to make a broader point about our changing society.

            You should try reading it sometime, instead of simply picking the title of one of his 5 books and weirdly deciding that it divides the country.

          • brickman

            I have read that book and though Bernie Goldberg can’t be held responsible for a specific incident ( whose mention will drive you crazy) . It was used as a list to divide the country.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Used as a list to divide the country? Who used it as a list to divide the country?

            And I’m curious: Do you believe that any of the people who he wrote about in that book have divided the country?

          • brickman

            Yes, Al Franken used a book the same way.He and Bernie are two sides of the same coin, although I’m unaware of any of Franken’s readers using his book the way Jim David Adkisson did.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            Ah, I see. This was just an excuse for you to despicably link Bernie to the actions of a murderer. Got it!

            As an author myself, I can now rest assured that if some insane person ever reads one of my books, and then decides to start shooting people, there’ll be classy guys like yourself around to make snide marks about me at the expense of the victims.

          • brickman

            Don’t be ridiculous, no one reads your books.

          • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

            lol. Saw that one coming a mile away. I guess making a joke beats trying to defend what you wrote.

          • brickman

            You set me up so well that I couldn’t resist:)

          • Jeff Webb

            Well, let’s hope someone goes on a homicidal rampage after reading FADS, so Brickman will know for certain he’s wrong and his joke looks even lamer. Just kidding! (It couldn’t get any lamer.)

  • marcia

    Oh Bernie, u R Clueless…My dad escaped Czech. when Hitler invaded, his family wasn’t so lucky. I ONLY knew “soccer” from the time I was 3 yrs old & now my 2 ADULT sons continue the BEAUTIFUL GAME! When played correctly..it’s like a Dance!

  • John from Memphis

    Bernie, I agree with you most of the time. But not with this one. Based on your logic, one might question whether we should compete in the Olympics.

  • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

    Being an expert on this topic (I played soccer from the age of 6 to the age of 10), I can honestly say that the orange slices sucked on during half-time were the sport’s highlight.

    • Integrity

      That and the snacks afterward. I coached peewee soccer for about 10 years. I actually got them to run in the right direction one year. I never did succeed in stopping the 4-year old girl from spitting on the boys. QED

      • Tim Ned

        And I had to coach my kids when they started soccer because I was the most experienced compared to the other dads. I played hockey growing up.

  • mc

    This is the most unnecessary article I’ve read today. Why even write this?

    • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

      Because it was funny and emblematic of how a lot of liberals see the world.

      • mc

        I often agree with Bernie and Ann but this seems like jumping the shark into nonsense…building up a straw man and knocking it down for no reason

        • http://johndalybooks.com/ John Daly

          Meh. I think it’s good to have an amusing, light-hearted piece from time to time.

    • Paul Borden

      Why even this then, mc? John Daly has it right. Soccer is a good game for kids 6-10 years old. It requires no skills (at that age) and gets kids running around for exercise. And they haven’t learned to flop yet.